Author Topic: Greetings, Folks  (Read 1361 times)

Samopoznanie

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Greetings, Folks
« on: April 10, 2009, 03:58:59 pm »
Hello all!

I've been hovering around this site since picking up a copy of the DS re-release in January. It had been so long since I'd even Google'd CT that the only site I could remember previously was the mysteriously-MIA chronotrigger.com. Needless to say, I was delighted to stumble upon this virtual encyclopedia on the whole series...! Major kudos to all involved in putting together such an impressive tribute to what remains my favourite game out there. I was especially glad to see that so many younger folks in their teens - the Playstation generation, if you will - still appreciate the game, despite its being a tad dated and playful compared to more recent fare.

As for my own experience with the series, I first rented the game (and console) back in '94 or '95 (can never remember the year), after being drawn in by a large poster of the crew taking off in the Epoch. This would be the first of many such occasions, as I wouldn't own a SNES til years later. I remember having to start over repeatedly, as someone else would always have rented it and saved over my file by the time I got back to it! I don't think I finished it until my early-mid teens sometime. I think the game still has a certain creative spark and colourfulness to it that you don't see in newer releases so often. Still have my cartridge lying around as an antique of sorts.

Chrono Cross and FF Chronicles were the only reasons I bought a PS. Before then I'd just been a Saturn owner - one of the dozen people or so who bought one! I was very disappointed in CC  at the time. I didn't hate it with a burning rage like some folks out there, but was disappointed in the lack of continuity between it and CT. Also found it a bit dark, with the pacing of things being rather confusing, and a lot of hollow characters. I played through it once, and that was it. In what was perhaps an appropriate metaphor for things, our ancient TV was on its last legs at the time - it still operated on an aerial - and the picture decided to fizzle out into an incomprehensible blur, just as the ending began to roll.

That said, I'd actually like to give CC another shot sometime. I had forgotten so many of the Zeal / Schala aspects of the story over the years (Present and Medieval eras were my fave back in the day,  so I remembered them the best) - that playing through CT DS was almost like a new game in parts. Think I'd appreciate CC more nowadays, especially having read some of the interviews on this site, and having recently played through Radical Dreamers. I actually really enjoyed RD. Thought the characters were better-developed than in CC, probably through virtue of its smaller cast.

Anyway, I don't know that I'll post here a great deal, but I wanted to at least stop by give a big thumbs up on the site and community here. Great stuff!

Romana

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Re: Greetings, Folks
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2009, 04:55:32 pm »
Hey, nice intro.




Welcome tot he 'pendium!

Dark Serge

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Re: Greetings, Folks
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2009, 05:14:43 pm »
Welcome to the Compendium. And yeah, what's to say about Cross. If you buy and play it expecting to see Chrono & pals again, I can understand your disappointment. I thought it was new and refreshing.

Anyway, have fun around here. Also read through some of the articles, even if you know about it already. I learned quite some interesting details while doing so.

Jutty

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Re: Greetings, Folks
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2009, 05:56:50 pm »
hi. word word word.

edit: fix'd
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 04:44:08 pm by Jutty »

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Greetings, Folks
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2009, 06:05:48 pm »
Welcome.

Asafigow

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Re: Greetings, Folks
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2009, 10:39:10 pm »
WELCOME TOT HE PARTY!!!!!
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 12:03:35 am by Asafigow »

V_Translanka

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Re: Greetings, Folks
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2009, 11:56:31 pm »
I don't think Welcome threads should be anyone's excuse to make lame one-word posts, guys...C'mon, it's a party, after all. Get out of your respective corners and talk to some people. Live it up! DANCE! Even if you have nowhere to do it but in your own living room. Read the directions, even if you don't follow them. Do NOT read beauty magazines, they will only make you feel ugly...whoops, lapsed into that speech from Baz Luhrman, "Sunscreen"...

Anyways...welcome...uh...Snapplepazzini...I feel pretty much the same way about CC, but when you think about it, it's very well directly linked to CT, it's just that you aren't privy to that knowledge for like 9/10ths of the game...But mostly my main complaint is that after two games of really well-developed characters, in CC some of the NPCs overshadow the entire cast...V_V And RD Serge>CC Serge...Inner monologue rules~!!

« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 01:34:32 am by V_Translanka »

Yourgingerestfan

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Re: Greetings, Folks
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2009, 06:55:46 pm »
Hello and Welcome !
We don't bite I promise :) , and Stick around for a long long time !

Shee

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Re: Greetings, Folks
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2009, 08:29:28 pm »
That was a damn fantastic intro.  Welcome to the wonderfulnes that is the Compendium.  There's really something for everyone here, no matter how sane you cliam to be/not be.  I'm in the middle of CCright now and seem to be enjoying it.  Anyway like I said, you'll find your niche easily.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Re: Greetings, Folks
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2009, 10:03:53 pm »
Welcome!  There's lot going on around here these days, so don't be afraid to get involved!

Samopoznanie

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Re: Greetings, Folks
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2009, 03:32:52 am »
Thanks for the warm welcome, guys. I've already logged 4 hours on here since registering so it looks like I'll be reading up on things more than expected! LoL. I've played a bit of Crimson Echoes too, and was impressed - great to see fan-made projects reach such a high standard. I had wanted to get involved in that sort of thing for a long time, but once it came down using a program like RPG Maker or learning code, I was just hopeless! Barely scraped by my first year of Java in university. Ended up studying Russian instead. Found it a much easier language to learn, oddly enough.

V_Translanka - you alluded to the unpronounceable jibber-jabber of my username. It's a Russian term pronounced 'Samo-poz-NAN-ie' meaning 'Self-knowledge' or 'Self-cognition'. It's the name of a cool book by an old Russian philosopher. I don't think I've ever used it in my work, but I've always liked the way it sounds!  :)

V_Translanka

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Re: Greetings, Folks
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2009, 04:34:32 am »
I was also just hungry, but that's neat!

Ramsus

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Re: Greetings, Folks
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2009, 10:39:42 am »
Ugh, Java's the new COBOL. I'll write in assembly language before I write stuff in Java. Sure there's a few cases where I'd still choose to use it for pragmatic reasons, but using it to teach or learn is a mistake. Also, a lot of ex-Java guys seemed to be running to Ruby over the last few years. Ex-Perl programmers tend to run that way too, but for different reasons.

The only reason Java is popular is because that's where all the C++ programmers who didn't need hardcore performance or native look and feel in their desktop applications fled to out of disgust.

C++ is just a monstrous language with an incredibly dense standard -- no man alive knows the complete language, and those who get close forget the corner cases every time they step away to another language for a project or two. It seems to combine the functionality of C, Smalltalk, and ML, while taking a lot of their worst attributes along the way, and they keep changing the damn standard, so code you wrote yesterday doesn't compile today without a lot of changes, and code you write today might not compile tomorrow.

Objective-C and Smalltalk are much more dynamic, so they work better for Object-Oriented programming (which is inherently dynamic -- you should be passing around objects of all sorts of types, and duck-typing should be easy). On the other end of the spectrum, Haskell and OCaml or ML are much better if you need high-level features with static, strong typing that won't convolute your code with type declarations, but still gives you the same level of confidence in your code's correctness at compile time (which makes them highly static, but not in the needlessly tedious and verbose way that C++ and Java do things). Really, the only reason C++ became popular is that it tried grafting more advanced features on top of C, and C was once the end-all-be-all of everyday programming languages.

That's because if you learn some low level computer science concepts, C is really simple and straightforward. In other words, learning C is much easier if you learn it with assembly language... Otherwise you'll spend a few years not really understanding what you're doing (I spent at least 2 or 3), and you won't realize it. But back in the day, a lot of programmers already were assembly language coders, and so they moved up from assembly to C, simply because it gave you a lot of the same flexibility while providing a conceptually clean syntax. A lot of code was so low-level that the ability to manage memory how you want to easily and effectively, directly access hardware resources, and create your own abstract data types that simply point to the data instead of copying it all the time were big advantages -- advantages that let you write fast code without resorting to assembly language. And as a result, in a lot of areas today, C is still the man.

Which brings us to the question of where Smalltalk and ML come from, and the answer lies in a language that's now almost 50 years old -- Lisp.

Lisp is the ultimate programming language for experimenting with new concepts and ideas, or creating domain specific languages by adding your own language semantics using macros, while having almost no real syntax, which makes it really popular with the CS theory guys. High-level concepts like Object Oriented programming and Functional programming were tested out and implemented in Lisp before they were developed into their own languages. In a way, this makes Lisp the most powerful and abstract language out there. Not bad, considering how old it is.

But to most programmers, Lisp is quirky-looking, requires too much abstract thinking, and can be hard to interface with code outside of the compiler's environment. Seen from a Lisper's perspective, that translates to "beautiful, fun, and contained within a high level programming environment."

And then there's BASIC. Never really used it, but the idea of a simple, clean language for quick coding by people who don't know the machine inside-out is a pretty good one. I'd consider it the first real glue language. Python's a much more modern glue language, in that it has a lot of high-level features taken from languages like Lisp and Haskell, but its main focus is still clean, easy to read code.

So why the sudden, long talk on programming languages? Because I don't think you're incapable of learning how to write code -- not any more than most people are incapable of learning a few math formulas and how to apply them in a physics class. Rather, the state of Computer Science education is pretty bad right now, and so intro classes are some of the worst ways to get your feet wet with programming. A lot of classes have shifted towards "Industry" languages that are generally pretty bad, but have become widely used (namely Java and C++, mostly thanks to the wonder that was and still is C).

If you're not interested in all the arcane, boilerplate nonsense and coding styles that involve writingLongVariableFunctionClassAndMethodNamesLikeThis all the time, and just want to be able to throw stuff together and try it, give Python (with pyGame) a try or find a good BASIC (not Visual Basic.NET though -- that's really just C# in disguise). Don't make it a chore either -- just toy around with code snippets and try to get something cool going. Computers are a lot more fun when you're able to define what they can do.

Anyone who sneers at you for using something like BASIC and tells you to use something more "powerful" is just another stupid language-snob. When it comes to real computer science, languages won't save you from not knowing how to solve problems, write algorithms, or create data structures specific to your needs.

That's another reason to stay away from low-level CS classes at University -- you'll find a lot of C++ snobs floating around who are too proud of their mastery of the arcane C++ standard and over-confident in the magical performance inherent in compiled C++ code to learn other programming languages, discrete math, or how to really optimize software for performance using profilers and debuggers and a bit of theory on algorithms and computing. They also get caught up in coding methodologies and powerful IDEs and code refactoring tools, simply because the code they end up having to write is always so verbose and unmanageable when they get beyond small projects to real ones. You'll also find Java snobs who think they're better for sticking to an inferior and compromised Smalltalk, Ruby snobs who think scripting is the way of the future and that low-level code is pointless with today's multi-core processors, C# snobs who've found the next Java, and maybe even some C snobs who use it 'cause they use Linux.

And almost none of them will know anything about the history of Computer Science.


Anyway, welcome to the Compendium!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 11:03:42 am by Ramsus »

Samopoznanie

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Re: Greetings, Folks
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2009, 01:36:05 pm »
Wow! Thanks for the detailed (and humourous!) overview, Ramsus. I appreciate the frank beatdown on 'language snobs', LoL. I can remember a few such people from the year I spent enrolled in that department, and the ironic twist to things was usually that they often wrote better in code than they did in English. I used to keep my head above water by correcting students' humanities essays in exchange for them going over my futile efforts at Java. I think I ended up with a C- in that course. Guessing that you went through more than a few CS classes to gather all that info!
Quote
I don't think you're incapable of learning how to write code -- not any more than most people are incapable of learning a few math formulas and how to apply them in a physics class...

If you're not interested in all the arcane, boilerplate nonsense and coding styles that involve writingLongVariableFunctionClassAndMethodNamesLikeThis all the time, and just want to be able to throw stuff together and try it, give Python (with pyGame) a try or find a good BASIC (not Visual Basic.NET though -- that's really just C# in disguise). Don't make it a chore either -- just toy around with code snippets and try to get something cool going. Computers are a lot more fun when you're able to define what they can do.
That actually sounds a lot closer to what I'd like to try these days. I might try and take up Python over the summer as a bit of a hobby once I'm finished with coursework. Cheers for the info!