Chrono Compendium
Kajar Laboratories - Fan Works and Submissions => Kajar Laboratories => Topic started by: ZeaLitY on February 01, 2004, 09:32:49 pm
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I believe the Entity's encyclopedia definition has enough clout to be a standalone article. This is not complete, as I have not yet circulated it or taken down new theories.
I'm revising the format as well to include Support/Refution/Neutral Commentary categories.
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The question of the Entity arose out of the uncredited creation of the gates that allow Crono to defeat Lavos and two specific instances in which the characters talk of such a being.
NOTE: Although evidence is in overwhelming favor of the Gaia Theory, other theories are still included.
Gaia Theory
ZeaLitY
I hold that the Entity of Chrono Trigger is the planet, which is dying due to Lavos, and is 'seeing its whole life pass by' through gates that lead to different time periods in which events occur that are integral to the planet's life.
- 65000000 B.C.: Lavos lands
- 12000 B.C.: Lavos briefly awakens
- 600 A.D.: Lavos is summoned
- 1000 A.D.:Crono meets Marle, ensuring salvation for the planet
- 1999 A.D.: Lavos awakens, destroying the world.
- 2300 A.D.: The last humans die out, signifying the total end of the world.
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It can then be inferred that once Lavos is defeated, and the planet is revived, that the gates no longer have purpose to exist, and fade away. I also assert that the planet conscious and sentient due to its ability to create Gates, an advanced concept, Square's tendency towards living planets, and because of the implications in Chrono Cross toward a living planet.
Support
Meteor Cross: Chrono Trigger's last chapter name = The Final Battle (in US) BUT = THE END OF OUR PLANET'S DREAM (in JAP) [Credit to Hyena20's translations]
Ybrik Metaknight: I too believe that the Entity is the spirit of the Planet itself, sort of like Gaia or Mother Nature. However, this brings up an interesting point. In Chrono Cross, it is suggested that humans are more a spawn of Lavos than of the Planet, and that the dinosaurs and reptites were much closer to being identified with the Planet. Interesting, then, that the Planet would choose to guide a group of humans to save it from a being that made the humans' evolution possible...Square does have a tendency to go in favor of the spirit of the Planet theory...see Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy IX, Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. Given Square's tendency to use this theory, and the idea that the Planet's life is flashing before its eyes, I still heavily support the Planet theory.
V Translanka: The most practical explanation would be the earth (Oft. referred to as the "Gaia Theory") i.e. the destroyed timeline.
1. The earth is the main focus of Lavos' powers ("Lavos playeth an integral role in the fortunes of this Entity..." -Frog: 400 Year Reunion). It is what is most directly effected by Lavos, so it has the most reason for getting rid of it.
Note by ZeaLitY: Since this may be labeled a circular argument, allow me to point out that the planet is one of the very few beings that know of Lavos directly, and the only being that has known of him for all time. It thus is more reasonable for the planet to take action, having recognized and sufferred the threat directly.
2. The earth is where Dreamstone comes from and thusly where Masa & Mune were created. They can easily be seen as the earth's champions. The Masamune itself acts as a counterbalance to Lavos' power, as can be seen when you fight the Mammon Machine with it. It is also this Dreamstone from which the Pendent comes from (I also have theories about Doreen lies within the Pendent, but that's for another time!), which opens gates, thusly meaning that the earth contains such power. The Masamune also simply moves the heroes along during their quest to smash Lavos.
Note by ZeaLitY: The Dreamstone can also be argued against this point; though Dreamstone is a product of the planet and a vehicle for the adventure, it does conduct Lavos' power efficiently.
3. In Chrono Cross, the earth is the source of the Elements, as founded by the ancient Dragonians. The Elements, like the Masamune help the heroes along on their quest.
4. Also in Chrono Cross, the White Dragon, after the destruction of the Tower of Gheddon, makes reference to which path Serge chooses as an "Entity".
5. We know that it is [probably] not Lavos (as some people presume for unknown reasons) because that would 1-be self-destructive and 2-Robo ponders that Lavos is not responsible for the Gates.
6. During the 400 Year Reunion, it is pondered that everything is but a memory to the Entity, that it's reliving it's past, supposedly due to it's death. Again backing up this theory as the earth is one of the only things actually dying, and it is also involved heavily throughout by being in each timeline (thusly they could be it's memories).
7. Robo states, during the 400 Year Reunion, "It may be something beyond our comprehension." Leading me to believe that the Entity must be something more than human.
Gorveg: Anyway, I subscribe to the Earth theory. The Earth, like everything else, is trying to survive... and the best way is to get some mooks to do it's dirty work for it.
The Utopia: Ending picture has earth in it with text 'The End' "...our journey may come to an end when we discover the identity of Entity". Deja Vu ?!
Hyena 20: ...stuff from my Japanese translations (I think it's in the FAQ) about how it mentions Mother Earth and that the planet is alive several times in the Japanese version.
- *A Zealian says that the Elemental arms and armor were created using the planet's power
- *During Magus's chant, he says "Take this Mother Earth's life to..." It appears that he is offering the planet to Lavos.
- *A Zealian in both versions talks about how the planet is alive.
- *In the final battle, Lucca states that Lavos feeds on the planet's consitution, which it relies on.
- *In the long dialogue between Azalra and Ayla, originally they have a long talk about fate and how whether or not they live is Mother Earth's decision. When Ayla tries to save Azalra, Azalra tells her it is pointless, because Mother Earth has made her decision. If you want, I will post the entire dialogue.
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Note: Literal translation. Azala was phonetically 'Azalra' in Japanese.
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Azalra: You still came..... This is the final round.
Fast or slow, (the victor?) will be decided.
Us Dinosaur People, or you damned apes?
[which] Side will survive on this land? *is an unfinished sentence*
Ayla: That determine by Mother Earth's descision. Ayla fight!
Azalra: Can you hear that voice? Hu hu, *can't translate rest of line*
Azalra:Red Star.... fall... and stain Mother Earth red!
*can't translate next line*
Hu hu hu.
This Black Tyrano will erase you apes eternally from history!
*Black Tyrano/Azalra battle*
Uu.... Have the heavens chosen you apes.....?
Ku--, Listen, Apes, and spread the word.
We Dinosaur People fought to challenge (our) fate of (our) proud and lordly people being wiped out.......
Ayla: Understood.
red flash
Ayla: ?!
Azalra: In the beginning, a giant rock of burning flames falls....
The red hot fireball scorches everything.
Mother Earth is consumed. Before long, cooling begins. Ice settles in, and a long era of intense cold will come.....
Hu hu, you monkeys will wish you had been taken with us!
Fu ha ha ha ha ha....!
Ayla: Lavos....
Marl: Ee?
Lucca: L... Lavos!
Ayla: Ayla's language. La mean fire. Vos mean big.
"Ayla~!"
Ayla: Kiino! Hurry! Lavos coming! Everyone ride Pteran!
Kino! Hurry!!
*Ayla gets on Pteran but then leaves*
Kiino: Ayla, what you doing?!
Ayla: Come! Azalra! Come!
Azalra: No good! Mother Earth has decided!
Ayla: .....
Kiino: Ayla! Hurry!!
Ayla: Azalra... I not forget...
Azalra: The future.....
Ayla: Future? What about future?
Azalra: The future is/will.... *his speech ends here*
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Belthasar Sparkly#2: Lavos is a gigantic parasite of the entire planet.
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CAMPFIRE SCENE
Robo: We thought the gates were created by distortions caused by Lavos's power, but the energy needed for that is different.
Marle: What do you mean?
Robo: I am convinced that maybe someone or something was showing us.
Something passed us through the gates to various time periods.
Or perhaps, that someone, itself, was (looking/seeking, watching, showing; I don't know exactly what it's saying here)
Or perhaps caused it by reflecting upon its own life/existance....
Ayla: Ayla understand that. Word pass down generations that when person die, at that moment see all memories!
....
Kaeru/Frog: However, the owner of these memories must be greatly connected to Lavos.
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FINAL BATTLE
Robo: It possesses the DNA of every creature that has ever lived! It evolves by obtaining record of the genes of all living things of the planet.
Lucca: I understand. This jerk's objective...
Over a long period of time, (Lavos) gradually parasitizes a planet, collecting portions of the planet's constitution, which it relies on.
Possessing those genes, the descendants born on the Mountain of Death go to another planet, to repeat the cycle.
It sucks this planet's life over a long period of time, evolving while remaining dormant.
How excessively selfish....!
Ayla: Ayla not lose! We (part of) this Mother's Earth's life! You different from this Mother Earth's life!!
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Previously I had all the lines from Zealians regarding the elemental arms and armor translated, but it seems I didn't save them to my comp... >_< I doubt they're in the FAQ, either. From what I remember, however, they considered the sun to be part of 'the planet's power'. Of course, the Japanese name for star and planet is the same, so we get into a translation/semantics problem, here. For those who don't remember, the elemental arms and armor include the Suzaku/Shiva Edge, Onimaru/Kali blade, Swallow, Safe Helm, the elemental vests and plates, the stat-boosting ring accessories, the miracle shot/wonder shot, sun shades, the valkyrie and siren, the nova and moonlight armor, the Rainbow, and wall/barrier ring. Basically, anything made from the sunstone, found in the blue pyramid, and anything found in the black boxes are elemental arms and armor. The rainbow shell might be as well; I haven't studied any of the dialogue about it yet, so I don't know.
Anyhow, the Japanese version makes it pretty clear that Zeal used to get its power from the planet, but now it gets its power from Lavos. It also makes it clear that the Zealians (reluctantly, under the orders of the queen) have turned their backs on the planet as being 'old and useless'. (I might note that the Japanese version makes it clear that the Queen is insane, and NOT being controlled by Lavos. She apparently went mad when the king died, becoming obsessed with her own fleeting mortality)
I am also given the impression that up until the Queen's reign, humans also worshipped the planet, but now they worship Lavos. (though it is not mentioned directly. The Japanese version of CT is a lot like CC in that it simply alludes to a lot of key points rather than stating them outright.)[/i]
rotorkid: I was reading a FAQ on GameFAQs about some translation differences in Chrono Trigger and I found that the title of the last chapter of the game, "The Final Battle", is actually called "The End of the Planet's Dream" in the japanese version. This is more evidence pointing to the fact that it is most likely the planet guiding Chrono and his friends through the events of the game.
atj61: Didn't Gaspar say something like, "When four or more entities step into a time warp, they end up here."
So that would mean the "entity" is just every living soul?
Hyena 20: I don't know. In the Japanese version, the Entity was referred to as 'dareka' (someone) I imagine he used a counter for people or objects in the line you just mentioned, and not 'dareka'.
hhallahh: I thought the planet pulled Dinopolis through time to "counteract" Chronopolis, though, hence implying a somewhat-conscious planet.
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Lavos Theories
Lavos-Influence Theory
ZeaLitY
I hold that the Entity is Lavos, who created the gates due to his immense, if indirect, influence over time and space.
Support
Dark Monster: 1. Lavos [resulted] the gates. His rips through time have caused our adventurers to travel through different [times]. Plus, Lavos is the "Father of Humans" Since he created them and all. (Note: Allusion to Frozen Flame's mutation of ape's brain.)
2. When [Lucca] says the Entity is finally at rest, he has to be talking about Lavos. The Gurus are all still alive, Earth is still alive, and usually the term rest is a term for dead.
3. Lavos has always been a power source. The pendant, the doors, the Gates, and the Masamune are all created by Lavos's power. Lavos had always prepared himself *using Zeal* incase something had happened. I guess the Dream Stone must have conducted well with lavos's power, since (in my opinion) Dreamstones have always been a source of pure magic.
Magic + Lavos= awesome power.
Refution[/u]
ZeaLitY: I do not believe the Entity is Lavos, simply because almost all dialogue concerning the Entity goes against this choice; in fact, the forest discussion was begun by refuting the possibility of Lavos being responsible for the gates. The gates ultimately lead to Lavos' destruction; would a sentient being that goes even as far as to collect all DNA as a defense mechanism also orchestrate its own eventual demise? Some argue that the time periods the gates lead to are also important to Lavos, but this is simply reversing the planet stance, which has much more justification for adopting these periods as self-important. There are also other arguments that spin wild yarns about the Lavos core and shell being two separate beings, and being involved in the Entity's role, but these are simply attempts to mislead and should be ignored.
Ybrik Metaknight: Lavos cannot possibly be the Entity. The Entity seems to guide the party to defeating Lavos gradually throughout the course of the game, revealing Lavos's history on the Planet little by little. If Lavos was the Entity, none of this would have likely happened, as one would not think that it wanted to destroy itself. Additionally, the party seems to think that Lavos and the Entity are separate beings.
V Translanka: 1. Robo states that after 400 years of thinking, he believes that Lavos may NOT be responsible for the gates. It is this thought that leads the characters to believe in the Entity in the first place.
2. Lavos didn't create humans. He merely allowed them the usage of Magic (thusly evolving them). (Note: The Frozen Flame, part of Lavos, also evolved them in this regard.)
3. Rest more commonly means at a state of tranquility or happiness; or sleep. Rest meaning death is less common.
5. Lavos didn't create the Masamune or the Pendant. He simply magnified their power (like with the humans/apes). Masa & Mune (& Doreen!) both were alive before the Masamune (before contact with the Mammon Machine and thusly Lavos' power it was known as the Red Knife) was "created".
6. Dreamstones were around long before Lavos arrived on earth.
Hyena 20: Quoting above: 2. Lavos didn't CREATE humans. He merely allowed them the usage of Magic (thusly EVOLVING them). End quote.
I'm not so sure Lavos' manipulation was needed. The magic the Zealians use is different from what Chrono and co use. Furthermore, the Zealians formerly used the same kind of magic Chrono and co did, but abandoned it for Lavos magic, which was far superior. The magic formerly used was elemental magic. Since the elemental arms and armor were forged from the planet's power, then I would assume that elemental magic comes from the planet as well. Humans lose their ability to use magic because they lose their connection with Lavos, and can no longer use elemental magic because they turned their backs on the planet. Mystics/Mazoku can use magic, however, because they still have their connection to the planet. Had Lavos never fallen, the Reptites probably would have learned to use magic as well, as would the humans had they survived and Lavos never fallen. I believe it's the connection to the planet which gives them elemental magic, and not Lavos, with the exception being the powerful magic that the Zealians used.
Lavos-Remorse Theory
Alex Virital
I believe that it's quite possible that Lavos realized the humans it was utilizing were capable of much more - and that it, in _remorse_, created the gates.
Does Lavos have emotions?
People have been referring to Lavos as an "it" or a gender-neutral "he" (in reality, if it has gender it's most likely female - as it produces offspring in the form of Lavos Spawn, if those are indeed offspring.). But there's no evidence to indicate that something - quite possibly the events of Zeal or the realization that it was to be defeated - couldn't have shaken it's 65,000,000 year resolve. I believe that it's quite possible that Lavos realized the humans it was utilizing were capable of much more - and that it, in _remorse_, created the gates. in that way, it's not so much an interstellar parasite as it is a misguided being - realizing that these things crawling around are capable of the depth of emotion that it itself is capable of. (an interesting social commentary, if that is the case - how often in human history has one group been seen as "superior" to another, only to realize their folly?) of course, the prevailing thought is that Lavos is, in fact, an interstellar virus of sorts - that it mindlessly goes out and creates these worlds, then erupts, spilling it's spawn across the galaxy, lather, rinse, repeat. However, Schala was fully capable of emotion. Now, i don't fully understand the details of Schala's fusion with Lavos in order to become the TimeDevouerer, and i could be wildly off base, but what I do know is that without Lavos' death, the TD cannot exist. Ergo, in the original timeline - where Lavos makes the world into a giant cupcake - Schala is eaten by it, much the same way that Chrono's energies are sucked in, as well as whomever else is wiped out in 1999 AD. However, _because_ Schala is stronger than the average human (smarter than the average bear), and is capable of influencing time, she is capable of influencing Lavos - and her mentality, her emotions are impressed upon Lavos - thereby creating within him remorse, and a way of ending the cycle. Ergo, it would not be "Lavos" summoning the gates - or not the Lavos that the group is familiar with.
And as an aside, you notice that at the end of CT, he assumes the form of bosses you've fought in each time period. He has knowledge of _exactly_ where (when?) you've been and who you've fought. Once again, it's been a long time since i've played either game - and i've never played the PSX Remake - so i could be wildly off base. But that's my idea. It's funny, considering i'm only 10% in the "Lavos" Camp. Personally, I think it's something we're not familiar with yet - the same thing that caused Porre to rise up...
Adjunct: Langriman: I thought the game was a bit on the light side when I first played it (at least compared to FF6) so I didn't take it that seriously at first, but for those who see something more, I'd just add my own 2 cents that Lavos is the Entity, and this Entity is a tortured soul that is at war with itself because of its destructive life cycle. It inspired or directly played a role in the creation of so many great human creations, like the Kingdom of Zeal, and yet to survive it must destroy and consume these things. Putting an end to its tortured sleep is analogous *SPOILER IF YOU ARE ONE OF THE THREE PEOPLE ON EARTH WHO HAVEN'T SEEN RETURN OF THE JEDI AND STILL WANT TO* to killing Darth Vader and then seeing him return at the end in a spirit form at peace with itself.
Refution[/u]
whiteknight: Perhaps it was a case of horrible self-loathing, but you never get the conscious sense of self from lavos. Despite his ultimate power and long life and such, you never really get the feeling that lavos is a sentient being. Ie: lavos basically lives and operates like a simple organism. He burrows underground, awakens when he has enough energy, creates spawns, and sends them out to other planets.
ZeaLitY: The usual problem of Schala not being fused with the Time Devourer in the Lavos timeline is present here, along with the fact that Lavos is an extremely pragmatic creature. The very fact that it follows through with its reproductive cycle in 2300 A.D. challenges this view; if he cannot stop his own asexual reproduction, how might he have the will to create an elaborate system of Gates and fate travelers to kill him? There are easier ways of committing suicide, as well.
Lavos-Hubris Theory
Anonymous
I believe that Lavos is the Entity, but didn't foresee his defeat. I think that he had a complex. He felt that he was superior and was guaranteed victory, so he chose a group of heros, and started showing them his past and his plot via the time portals. He was hoping they would fight him personally.
He didn't count on anyone changing what he had done/was going to do. Other persons helping Chrono and crew also wasn't part of the plan. That's why Lavos showed his rage at the Mammon Machine by attempting to kill Chrono. He later showed remorse by creating a red portal*. When Chrono finally got to his shell, Lavos battled in various forms he had taken in their countless battles, even imitating Frog's Masamune. Reaching the inner core, Lavos showed them how well he manilipulated time and space, hurling boulders, even as he know that he was defeated. Eventally, he started fighting at various times, but could never defeat Chrono.
* I think that the portal would have led anyone to a critical point in life, and just led the first one to enter to that point.
Refution
ZeaLitY: This is feasible on some levels, but one must consider the advanced intelligence of Lavos. It is unaware of human sufferring, perhaps ignoring it entirely; it is an extreme pragmatist, meaning that such a diversion would be not worth the time and energy put into it. Lavos becomes stronger by controlling evolution to produce desirable genetic traits; sparring with the host planet's finest warriors would do little to his advantage.
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Crono Theory
This Name is Dumb
It is my belief that Crono is the Entity. Aware of the threat of lavos, he reincarnated himself into the being known as Crono, impregnating his mother, thus explaining his lack of a father. Being the Entity, Crono lived his life as a mute so that no important information could be revealed.
The purpose of this was simple. Crono had to gather the true warriors throughout the ages to aid him in his quest. Thus, he enlisted the genius Lucca, the super-intelligent Robo, master swordsman Frog, unfallible Ayla, and master magician Magus. Marle just came along for the ride.
Crono created the gates so he could lead Lucca with him to meet the other party members and have them learn of his plan. Of course, things would've gone more smoothly had Marle not been involved. Alas, at least things worked out until they finally reached Lavos. Crono realized that his band of warriors were not strong enough, so he sacrificed himself for the good of the world. The party was alone at that point, and Crono never did recruit Magus at that point. Eventually, the group decides whether to kill Magus or not, depending on how wise the party became under the guidance of Crono. They even go to great lengths to revive Crono.
Of course, Crono knew his party wasn't ready when they faced Lavos. They weren't at their maximum potential, and they hadn't recruited Magus yet. Crono's only choice was to sacrifice himself, and just watch from afar and pray his party can lead on by themselves. I don't think he foresaw in his human form or even his spirit form his party questing to revive him. He did hope that they would recruit Magus and not blindly kill him, which depends on whether you kill Magus or not.
Crono helps the others resolve their problems in that sidequest thing, then they go and finally slay Lavos. With his goals complete, Crono simply had to wait to die and then his goal was complete. In the meantime, he could always have fun with Marle.
This Name is Dumb: Crono's work is complete when Lavos shall be defeated. However, he cannot leave until his body is dead. So he just hangs out until Porre invades and kills him. Then the Entity haunts Serge as Crono, etc.
Adjunct 1: Warrior of Zerona: What if Crono was dreaming the planet's dream? Maybe he IS a human manifestation of the planet.
Refution[/u]
ZeaLitY: Unfortunately, Crono is not a mute, or else simple decisions could not have been made -- save by hand gestures. For instance, how would he tell the others his name?
Riposte: This Name is Dumb: It's all telepathy. They know the answers suddenly, and have no reason how they knew them, nor do they think about how they knew. They simply don't put any thought about it.
The Entity works in mysterious ways, after all.
ZeaLitY: In regard to the Ocean Palace disaster, Crono's sacrifice was not necessary, as it seems that the party was expunged from the Pocket Dimension in due time. He accomplished nothing, in addition.
DeadMech: End game, Crono is powerful enough to go toe to toe with lavos by himself. In a new game plus you don't even need the others (aside from marle so you can get to the location of the gate without the fair workers telling you to come back later).
Riposte: This Name is Dumb: But yeah, you could contribute that to the game being easy, or that it goes against the game's theme of teamwork (double and triple teches, etc.), or whatever.
evr182: None of this explains what the Entity is, just that it "reincarnated" itself as Crono. Is the Entity some sort of "God" figure? Is Crono the human manifestation of the Planet and some sort of Earthly energies? What is it that takes the form of Crono?
Riposte: This Name is Dumb: Yeah, I didn't really go into much details about the Entity itself. I don't view it as a God, really. Perhaps just the Watchman of the planet. Somewhat a Guardian. It has limited powers, like manipulating the fabric of time, but I don't really think it can communicate with the creatures of the planet.
The Entity saw Lavos reach the planet in 65,000,000 B.C., and knew it had to stop it. It couldn't do it itself, as it wasn't all-powerful, or could really kill anyone, and it couldn't gather an army at its current state. Its only choice was to reincarnate itself as a human, and lead a group of the world's strongest warriors throughout time. Thus, the time gates were created, planned to open at certain moments in time. After that, he chose a woman to hold his human form, and then he was born (think Anakin Skywalker/Jesus Christ).
He saw much, but he couldn't foresee the feature. He didn't plan for Marle's involvement (Marle could be worked in quite easily as one of the chosen ones if you want to. Up to what you want to believe, really). Marle's involvement was fortunate, for she had the Pendant, which was a big factor in Crono's success. Whether the Pendant opened the time gate early or the time gate just opened on schedule and Marle just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, it's your choice.
However, I don't think the Entity is the only one that can control time. Evidence of that is Schala sealing the portal to 12,000 B.C. I believe the combination of the Dreamstone pendant with Lavos's energy from the Mammon Machine somehow creates a powerful tool of magic, if you're strong enough to wield it. While someone like Marle is inexperienced with magic and could only do limited uses such as unsealing doors and boxes, someone with much more magical power, as Schala and Magus could seal time itself. So why didn't Magus take advantage of it? He didn't have the pendant. (Perhaps he was attacking Guardia not only to gain the Mystic's trust, but also to seize Guardia's pendant, though why he summoned Lavos first is beyond me at this point.) He made Schala seal the gate at 12,000 B.C. to keep his identity hidden. He couldn't simply snatch Schala's pendant, nor did he know about Marle's pendant, I believe. After the Ocean Palace incident, Magus had no need to manipulate time what with the Epoch.
Counter-Riposte: ZeaLitY: In regard to Schala's closing the portal, that's simply creating a spatial limit on its ability to expand or allow time travelers to emerge from it. Imagine putting a huge, steel box around the Gate. Also, since the original identity of the Entity is unknown, it very well may be anything, including the other theories presented. Attributing acts to a god in science is viewed as a copout, though the Gaia Theory is an acceptable exception, considering the planet is conscious to some degree.
evr182: So basically, you don't know who the Entity is, and the topic title is a lie. Even if Crono is the reincarnation of the entity, that doesn't prove what the Entity is. Then, when someone questions you on it, you say such things as watchman, without any proof that it is in any or form true. Basically, you made a theory that didn't explain what you told everyone you would explain, and that is, "Who is the entity?"
Riposte: This Name is Dumb: The Entity isn't anything in particular from my viewpoint. Just some sort of spirit (depends on how you view spirits, I'm seeing the shining floating light kind) that watches after the planet and later is reborn as Crono. I thought you could infer that from what I've said. That's all the Entity really is.
V Translanka: Here's some more evidence I stumbled upon while flipping through the Chrono Trigger Instruction Booklet...
quote:Living in the seemingly peaceful kingdom of Guardia in 1000A.D., the child CRONO was chosen by guardian spirits to save the world from ultimate devastation.
Well, if that doesn't clear things up, I think that Dumb_Name (or whatever) has more then a few screws loose. Crono is CHOSEN by the Entity, not he IS the Entity.
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Nu Theory
Thylacine
Although not quite the glamorous entity we would all hope for in an issue like this, I think the Nu creatures are the entity. This entity is made even less glamorous in the fact that it exists as a tangible (and usually helpful) being in every single time period, including the End of Time. It is not a spirit that guides, but it is a creature that protects.
There was a book found in 10,000 BC that stated 'everything' began with Nu and ended with Nu. Most likely this statement was referring to life on earth. In a parental manner, Nu intervened to help save its creations.
How did it intervene? Dreamstone. This stone prevented Magus from summoning Lavos in 600 AD by restoring the Masamune to its full power. A premature summon could have ended the world right then and there, with absolutely no survivors within 300 years thanks to the primitive life forms. The Dreamstone also caused Lucca's machine to react, causing the entire adventure to take place. The Dreamstone is the Nu's instrument to help save the world. The Mop, however, is still up for debate.
Refution
V Translanka: To add to (or debunk part of) the Nu Theory...The book in which states that "All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu" is actually taken from Norse myth in which "Nu" is the primordial goo from which life springs forth.
GrayLensman :Dreamstone played a pivotal role well before 65 million BC. Since Melchior said that Dreamstone was used as money by prehistoric humans, I assume that there was a fair amount of it. There has to be at least two separate pieces because the party took one to 1000 AD, and the Zealians used another to make the Mammon Machine and Schala's pendant. The Dreamstone also had to have existed many millions of years before 65 million BC because it was responsible for both the Reptites and Humans' sentience.
The Entity cannot be responsible for the existence of Dreamstone in the orignal timeline. By creating the gates, the Entity was changing history. The Lavos Timeline had to occur in its entirety before the Entity could take any action so that (he/she/it) could have experienced the ruination of the planet first. If the Entity placed Dreamstone in the pre-65 million BC Lavos Timeline, it would require that the results of a change to the past precede the cause of the change, and Chrono Trigger shows us that this cannot be the case. In brief, the Entity has to see the world be destroyed before anything could be done about it, and Dreamstone exists in the Lavos Timeline, before the Entity had experienced it.
Everything the Entity did was in hind sight: the ringing of Leene's bell, which started the whole course of events, and the creation of the Gate which reacted with Marle's pendant. The original timeline where Crono never bumped into Marle at the fair, or the Pendant didn't react, had to occur. In 600 AD Magus succeeded in summoning Lavos without any interference from Frog, and it did not mean the end of the world.
Thylacine wrote: "There was a book found in 10,000 BC that stated 'everything' began with Nu and ended with Nu. Most likely this statement was referring to life on earth. In a parental manner, Nu intervened to help save its creations."
I think the Nus must be agents of the Entity and not the Entity itself. We know that there are more than one Nu and they display a wide variety of behaviors. I argue that unless they have a collective intelligence, they cannot be the Entity. In my mind, "The Entity" definitely implies a single person. Also, in the later time periods (2300 AD, and possibly 1000 AD) the only Nu present appears to be Belthasar's mechanical creation. With the possible exception of the arrival of Lavos, the apocalypse if the most important time period in Chrono Trigger, I can't see the Entity not being present. Also, the Entity has to be able to create a network of time portals, and based on what we see in the game, the Nus could not have accomplished this on their own. In every time period, the Nus play a supportive role; whether they are hiding their true capacity is unknown.
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Gaspar Theory
KWhazit
I've always thought the "entity" was Gaspar, the Guru of Time...Since he is the Guru of Time, he probably knows how to cause time warps.
He obviously knows about Lavos, has reason enough to oppose it, and likely regrets not being able to do anything during his close encounter back in 12000BC. He helps out Crono's group through practically the whole game, but always indirectly... giving hints and suggestions, introducting them to Spekkio so they can learn magic, telling them where to find the time machine, guiding them to sidequests to improve their odds... Even with rescuing Crono, he merely provides the needed item and information and sets events in motion. Opening Gates from behind the scenes seems to fit his style. The first journey in particular seems to fit with the kind of nudging he keeps giving... Crono's first journey through time, and it just coincidentally sends a powerful and personal message about both the extent of the power to change history, and the risk involved in doing so. In one of the alternate endings where you don't save Crono, Gaspar, pursued by four or more party members (I don't remember exactly who or how many), comes out of a Gate in Leene Square. But, didn't he say only three people could travel together at a time? It looks like he knows more than he's letting on... Or maybe it's just an oversight by the script writers.
Support[/u]
ZeaLitY: Gaspar can indeed craft Time Eggs; though these are not full-fledged Gates, they do afford some temporal power.
Neutral Commentary[/u]
ZeaLitY: The ending note is probably an exception for the ending. Endings in the Chrono series are purposely comical.
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Belthasar Theory
Lochtiel
I doubt this has been said, but the more I think about it the more I can see Belthasar as the Entity - especially when we take into consideration his role in CC.
There he admits to being the mastermind behind the entire Time Crash. How he came to discover Schala's predicament in the Darkness of Time is beyond me, but after he had he sent into motion events that would later cause both the presence of Chronopolis and Dinopolis in the past so that the Chrono Cross could be formed with pieces of the Dragon Tear. This to me is simply astounding, that one man can orchestrate so much. In CC he very nearly parallels God as it is essentially because of him that El Nido even exists in the first place.
Neutral Commentary[/u]
Lochtiel: However none of this matters if we can't find any connection to CT. What little we know about the Entity tells us that it was close to death. Belthasar most certainly fits this description and even passes away halfway through the game. The Entity must have the power to control time to a degree. Well, Belthasar has a homemade time machine. That's pretty impressive just by itself. Perhaps if he had the Frozen Flame with him in the ruined 2300 he could have hooked it to a machine to create gates. I'm just guessing here because there are numerous possibilities, but the point is he DID have the ability to affect time. Also he had the motive. He knew of Lavos and saw first hand the destruction. He of course would want someone to come along and stop this. Why Crono and Marle were affected, I have no idea. Perhaps originally it could have been nothing more than coincidence. But either way after Lavos was destroyed the ruined future ceased to exist. Suddenly Belthasar found himself in a peaceful world and set to work on his Time Research Lab. Because the immediate threat of Lavos was taken care of he did not invest time into making Gates and that is why they all disappear at the end of CT.
Support: ZeaLitY: It is revealed that in Radical Dreamers that combining a Time Egg with the Frozen Flame grants one power over time.
Radical Dreamer: We had been discussing the possibility of Belthasar to influence events beyond time/dimension...We know Belthasar has the power to move through time, he created the Epoch, and the Neo Epoch...as for moving cross dimensionally...Is there any verification of technology being used to cross dimensions?
ZeaLitY: I don't think it'd be necessary, as Belthasar only exists in Another World in Cross.
Refution[/u]
Ybrik Metaknight: Interesting theory, Lochtiel; However, I don't particularly agree with it, at least in terms of Belthasar's actions in Chrono Trigger. You see, Belthasar is only human, and never showed any great magical power. (Indeed, oddly enough, none of the Gurus ever showed any significant magical prowess, but then neither did any of other Zealians.) I think it would take someone with an adept of Magus's caliber to cleave space-time with magic. Belthasar used science. I have always viewed the gates as a magical rather than scientific phenomenon. Besides, I believe that if Belthasar had the power to create gates to whatever time he chose, he would never have had a need to make the Epoch.
And another thing, the Chrono Cross Belthasar is the Belthasar that existed in the new timeline, as a result of Crono & Co.'s actions (namely the defeat of Lavos). The Chrono Trigger Belthasar in A.D. 2300 is the Belthasar from the original timeline. I think this further discounts your theory. However, those are some very good points about Belthasar's significance in El Nido.
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Schala-Time Devourer Theory
RabidTurtle
The Schala in 12,00 BC is NOT the Entity, however, the Schala in the Time Devourer state IS. She's in a point where she transcends time. She's locked up, so she used the Gates to influence Crono and the others to save the future, then influenced Serge to free her. She created Gates through the Dreamstone of the pendants, and her connection through Lavos.
Her existence outside of time, as well as her fusion with Lavos and her own natural abilities, allow her control of space/time. As an example, she was able to change the course of Serge's father's boat toward the Sea of Eden to Chronopolis, where, otherwise, they would have gone to Marbule and Serge would have died. She also reveals infant Kid to Lucca at the end of the PSX remake of CT, and Lucca was the one who wanted to most about the entity. Rather fitting.
Support:[/u]
RabidTurtle:
Further evidence: .
- Lucca says the Entity was at rest. This is relative. She was at rest with Crono's party, because they had done their job of saving the future from Lavos (a future which Schala regretted and wanted reversed...see below). However, she was not at rest with Serge, because she still needed him to free her. She closed the Gates because Crono's job was done. .
- "ROBO: Thinking things like, "If only I had done this," or, "I shouldn't have done that..." triggers unpleasant, old memories." .
Schala felt guilty for allowing Lavos to destroy Zeal in 12000 BC and corrupting her mother (refer to the dialogue of Kid just prior to the end of Radical Dreamers). After all, the 12000 BC Schala did awaken him with the Mammon Machine, under the direction of her mother. Also, she allowed him to continue to live underground and destroy the world in 2300 AD. That's a serious regret (Play Radical Dreamers...it is very enlightening as to what happened to Schala. it's an all-text game, but it only took me about two hours to beat, WITHOUT a guide. Pretty easy, I don't even think it's possible to die).
- "ROBO: After 400 years of experience, I have come to think that Lavos may not be responsible for the gates. .
MARLE: What do you mean? .
ROBO: I have come to think that someone, or something wanted us to see all this. The different events over time, that we have witnessed. It is almost as if some entity wanted to relive its past. .
AYLA: Ayla know! When people die, elders say, see whole life pass by! .
FROG: 'Tis true that mortals relive their most profound memories before death claimeth them. Yet those memories most often are sad ones." .
While Schala was trapped beyond time, she could view all time streams and dimensions, like the End of Time. Even during the battle with TimeDevourer, you could see little visions of different places and times in the background. Schala guided Crono's party and established gates with that knowledge. Each gate goes to a time period that is important to the destruction of Lavos." Problems: In the original timeline, it is unknown what happens to Schala in 12,000 B.C., which warrants further explanation of how the Time Devourer could exist in the original timeline, since the same Lavos occupies the planet throughout.
Refution[/u]
Ybrik Metaknight: Schala, also, could not be the Entity. The prevailing theory of this nature is that Schala, connected to Lavos as the Time Devourer, directed both Crono's party as well as Serge's party, the former to save the Planet and the latter to save herself. However, it is also generally accepted that Schala combined with Lavos only in the new timeline formed by Crono's party mucking about in time. If this is the case (and I believe that it is), Schala could not possibly have guided Marle into A.D. 600, thereby beginning the party's adventure, because she wouldn't have been part of the Time Devourer, which did not exist.
ZeaLitY: I agree wholly with Ybrik Metaknight's statements; the physics of time in the Chrono series excuse the Grandfather paradox and causal loops (see On the Axioms, Corollaries of Temporal Transforms). This would rule out Schala, since she does not exist as part of the Time Devourer until after Crono enters the Gates (created by the Entity) and influences time. No matter how much she may call out to Serge in Chrono Cross, she simply does not exist prior to the new timeline. As one may recall, in the Lavos timeline, Schala was either killed or totally lost within time when Lavos was awakened by the Mammon Machine. One may support the position that she created the gates from this state of nothingness in the original timeline, but further proof is absent, and the likeliness of this miniscule. She simply does NOT exist, and it's farfetched to believe the game developers even had planned Schala to be assimilated into Lavos at this time for Chrono Cross, let alone integrate it with Chrono Trigger to assume the identity of the Entity. Though Masato Kato may have certainly thought of plot beyond Chrono Trigger, it is unlikely and this further development was probably manifested in Radical Dreamers -- in which Schala certainly does not fulfill the criteria of the Entity.
Some continue to press that she was integrated with Lavos in the original timeline. Consider: Schala and Magus probably had a type of mental link, and Magus behaves throughout history as if he wanted revenge on Lavos for killing her. Perhaps he felt she was dead, and in the new timeline, searched since he still felt a presence. Also, would it not be difficult for Schala merged with the Time Devourer to undertake such ambitious actions? In Cross it is said that Schala, in a moment of lucidity, was able to guide the events of the storm in 1006 A.D. This is relatively simple compared to creating gates, and consider that her mind was constantly in conflict; the hatred of sorrow and Lavos provoked her to become bent on destroying reality, as stated directly by Lucca on Opassa Beach.
Ybrik Metaknight: However, I do feel that I should throw out another reason why I feel that the Entity could not possibly be Schala: It's highly unlikely if you think of things from the developers' end.
Consider, if you will, the fact that when Chrono Trigger came out, it was a bit of a risk, as it did not fall under an existing property: Any attempt at creating a new franchise is a bit of a risk. Because of that, they probably didn't have anything after CT planned out at the time that they decided to include something about an Entity, meaning that they probably didn't have any idea that they were going to have Schala merge with Lavos to become the Time Devourer, meaning that they were most likely not even considering the possibility that she could be the Entity. Even if they were planning things out ahead of time, Schala becoming the Time Devourer was most likely an idea that came much, much later, like when they were planning out CC. Radical Dreamers, which came out a year or so after CT, gave a considerably different origin for Kid:
In RD, it was revealed that Kid actually was Schala, rather than simply a Schala clone. In that game (or at least the first scenario, which thematically is the only one that really fits with CT and is the only one that I'm considering as the real scenario), it was revealed that Schala was saved by the Chrono Trigger, or Time Egg, reverting her back to infancy and sending her to (we can assume) the modern era, to live with Lucca.
Taking this into consideration, I think it's safe to assume that, since the CT team had no plans to put Schala into a position where she could have the kind of absolute control over time that she would need in order to be the Entity, the kind of power she had as part of the Time Devourer in CC, the team most likely did not plan for her to be the Entity.
The only way that Schala in the Time Devourer could even possibly be the Entity is if the developers of CT had no identity in mind for the Entity, and simply decided to reveal it in a later game, or not at all. First of all, this is most likely not the case. Magus asks, "...so who is this Entity?" In my mind, this implies that Square had an identity in mind. Second of all, if this is the case, then why didn't they go ahead and state outright that Schala was the Entity in Chrono Cross? That could have solved everything, including tying up a major dangling plot thread for Square, but they didn't do it. Finally, there is absolutely no mention of an Entity in Chrono Cross. If Square had intended for Schala in CC to be the Entity, they probably would have at least hinted at the possibility a little more strongly.
DietSamuraiCola: In the Ocean Palace, 12,000 BC, in the game when you are there, Lavos comes, Crono dies, Magus tries to fight, etc etc, then Schala teleports the group away. Isn't it likely that were you not there, (say in the original timeline), Schala would have used her power to teleport herself away, instead of staying there and dying / merging with Lavos. If that is true, then Schala would not have merged with Lavos / Lavos shell (not sure on the details) and become the Time Devourer. And, it is possible, as well, that after she teleported away she was killed by the tidal wave, although unlikely (she was able to transport the entire group away and they all survived the tidal wave, so she should be able to save herself).
So, in reality, any of the characters in the original timeline could be the real descendant of Schala. And more, she, or more specifically the Time Devourer, COULD NOT have caused the gates, since in the original timeline, Schala had either perished in the tidal wave or died later on, on the mainland.
Ybrik Metaknight: Ah, but going by what happened with Leene, once the party "doomed" New Timeline Schala, so to speak, shouldn't Marle (and Leene, and the entire line) have disappeared? After all, remember, there is no reason to say that New Timeline Schala, after Serge frees her, goes back to 12,000 B.C. to mother what would become Leene's line. I still think Schala probably teleported herself and her mother out into the middle of the ocean, her mother to keep her from doing more evil and herself as penance. Regardless, this would prevent her merging with Lavos in the original timeline.
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Spekkio-Character Theory[/u]
whiteknight: Perhaps Spekkio is the entity. He has all the magical power he needs at his disposal, his position at the end of time affords him an infinate veiw of all that lavos does throughout time. His magic depends on Lavos, but he apparently has a vested interest in destroying him. Why else would he hook Crono and the gang up with magic? Perhaps, Spekkio is Schala, or a form of Schala. this is perhaps my most outrageous theory, but i think it has some merit. Schala can obviously change forms (like when she becomes the Time Devourer), she has magic power to spare, she is in an unlikely location along with Belthasar who came from the Ocean Palace, and she has a vested interest in killing lavos. She cannot destroy the beast herself, but she can arm Crono to do it.
My personal working theory is that Spekkio is involved, in some way, with the entity. Either he is a manifestation of the Entity that tries to help the party succeed, or he is a friend of the Entity. Lets look at the similarities:
They both want Lavos dead
They are somehow aware of all things past present and future
They are affiliated with magic.
Refution[/u]
ZeaLitY: The foreseeable problems with this theory are, a.) why Spekkio would simply not destroy Lavos himself, b.) Schala refutions (check that theory section) c.) Spekkio never explicitly claims to want Lavos dead, nor is the Entity especially affiliated with magic. Though it can create Gates, it is unknown whether magic is the mechanism by which it is done.
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Higher Power Theory
ZeaLitY: I propose that the Entity is a god of sorts, watching over the planet and helping to save it by creating the gates and influencing Crono to defeat Lavos.
Adjunct 1: AlephZaku :The Entity is god. It's nothing beyond that. Granted, it's a god that plays a very, very active role in messing with fate, but it's just a god. A bodyless entity. The major deity of the Zenanites.
Support[/u]
Kiyosuke: I always thought the Entity was referring to Robo's idea of a higher power, which is an ironic thing for a machine to speculate on.
ZeaLitY: Religion does exist in some form on Zenan, seen in Manoria Cathedral of 600 A.D. and the various nuns in the world.
Refution[/u]
ZeaLitY :Well, if the higher power helps save this planet, why not the others? The life of Lavoids depend on ruining one planet so that others can be thus reached; we may infer that before Crono's world was afflicted, another fell. This in turn suggests the Gaia Theory a bit more, for surely the planet, as a higher power itself, would save itself but not have the power or will to save others. I believe that the supporters of this argument may be attempting to find common, neutral ground. Although it cannot be directly refuted, the possibility of the Entity being an unknown or God being is somewhat real. I do not believe, however, that the Entity conversations would exist, and the gates play such an important part if there was not a clear, definite answer; one that fits all description. As Ybrik said, a type of 'God' would be incapable of dying, and choosing 'unknown' appears to be giving up the identity as indecipherable even in the face of excellent evidence. Having a single god over one planet is virtually the same as arguing that the planet is singularly conscious in some fashion, which is in essence, the Gaia Theory. Lastly, the aforementioned nuns also populated a shrine to the forest, suggesting that the planet may be viewed as a god.
Ybrik Metaknight: Finally, the last theory, that the Entity is an unknown higher being, or God. Well...this one's entirely possible. At one time, I actually believed this to be the case. Even now, I don't see it as being too far from the "Entity is the Planet" theory. However, the bit about one's life flashing before one's eyes prior to death goes much more in favor of the Entity being the Planet than it is in favor of the Entity being God.
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Unexplained Theory
Metacod
I think the planet explanation makes the most sense, but I also think that there is no one correct explanation. I think the story writers didn't have any one person or thing in mind; they put that dialogue in the game because wanted the fans to have something to ponder that wasn't directly explained in the game. The technique of leaving an open thread is very powerful here. I'm sure it was originally designed to be a question with no real answer.
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Nonexistent Theory
Radical Dreamer
It's possible that the Entity does not in fact exist. Early humans in our own world have been devising gods in order to explain their place in the universe, under far less extreme (and supernatural) circumstances as that of the Chrono Trigger cast at the time of the camp fire. It is only natural that, given their situation, the team would start to question their place in the universe, and our species traditionally favors the belief in a higher being or beings, as it provides them with a safety net. But belief in a thing doesn't mean it exists, and the Entity very well may be a simple myth, whose only existence is in the minds of the party.
Refution[/u]
ZeaLitY: Unfortunately, the acts of this god are not subjective miracles, but definite scientific phenomena. We must credit the Gates to something or someone.
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Break Theory
Canjo
I personally think the Entity is going to be something revealed in Chrono Break, and possibly something we haven't heard of yet.
Neutral Commentary[/u]
ZeaLitY: This is always possible, but let us not use it as a reason to stop theorizing before Break is released.
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atj61: Didn't Gaspar say something like, "When four or more entities step into a time warp, they end up here."
So that would mean the "entity" is just every living soul?
Actually, he says "When four or more BEINGS step into a time warp, the Conservation of Time theorem states that they will end up" at the End of Time (I just saw the quote, but still can't remember the exact wording - he refers to it as the place of least space-time resistance, although not in those exact words, so I won't quote it).
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(This is "This Name is Dumb")
Just noting that the Crono Theory is still in progress, and there's a lot more about it in my topic on GameFAQs. It's not organized, and it's being changed constantly as more is added to it, but it's already showing good progress. Later posts are more accurate, and everything is subject to be altered to totally fit in the storyline. Luckily, the Crono Theory is very adaptable, and changes can easily be made for it to make sense.
http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=2000027&topic=12305582
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Also note that it's very likely that the team that developed Chrono Trigger didn't really focus on time phenomena, and instead focused on gameplay, story, graphics, and all those other touches. SNES-era Square games aren't really that deep, after all.
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It's possible that the Entity does not in fact exist. Early humans in our own world have been devising gods in order to explain their place in the universe, under far less extreme (and supernatural) circumstances as that of the Chrono Trigger cast at the time of the camp fire. It is only natural that, given their situation, the team would start to question their place in the universe, and our species traditionally favors the belief in a higher being or beings, as it provides them with a safety net.
I think its worth pointing out that it wasn't a member of our species at all that began thought on the idea of an Entity, but a robot. One reason we create gods is out of an attempt to understand the how and why ofour own existance. Robo knows exactly where he came from. I'd guess that he would be the least spiritually inclined out of all the characters, programmed instead to come to conclusions based off of observation and reason. I'd assume that his conclusion is more based off of reason than the desire for a god to explain something.
His arguement could probably be broken down into this: After years of thinking I have come to decide that Lavos is not responsable for the time gates. However, the placement of something as significant of the gates in exactly the times and places we need to 'accidently' discover and destroy the threat of Lavos is too convinient to chock up to random chance. Therefore, chance aside, something or someone else must be creating these gates for our use.
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Yes, but Robo has gone beyond his programming and has developed emotions. You can't say he knows his true origin any more than any human does. In that same regard that you put on Robo, you could say you came from your mother and father and be done with it. There are roots and histories beyond just our original physical origins. The creators of the Mother Brain for instance. Their creators, and so on and so forth...
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Yes, but Robo has gone beyond his programming and has developed emotions. You can't say he knows his true origin any more than any human does. In that same regard that you put on Robo, you could say you came from your mother and father and be done with it. There are roots and histories beyond just our original physical origins. The creators of the Mother Brain for instance. Their creators, and so on and so forth...
This may be true, but even with "primitive" emotions, he's still more rational than your typical human. I think Daggart's point is a good one. I couldn't see Robo having this spiritual side emerge from him - he still reasons more like a computer than a human.
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Could someone please post the prerequisites for the entity?
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Ummm...prerequisites? What exactly do you mean? I am confused on this one.
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All the things it's stated in the game that the Entity must do/be/etc.
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The Entity is the theoretical being that may be responsible for creating time gates in CT and pulling back Dinopolis in CC.
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My theory is that Lavos created the Gates as a simple way of dispersing unwanted people to time periods where they wont cause trouble... Think about it, Lavos has teleported people to all time periods (Janus from 12000 to 600, Melchior from 12000 to 1000, Belthasar from 12000 to 2300, The party from 600 to 65000000), every time period except 1999, which the only gate to exists in a bucket, apart from the other gates... The Gates are only supposed to be one way, Lavos drops person into stream and the come out somewhere else, but going through them with Lavos depends on the Gate's relation in the Time-tunnel, or something like that... The gates were only made visible when Marle accidentaly activated the Gates through the Telepod. The Gate Key serves as a means of "forcing open" the gates... And as for Dinopolis, the planet did that, but was too weakened by Lavos in CT to do anything :P
Actually, I think the Entity-Planet is by far the most plausible... But I had never thought of that while playing CT... :P
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Meh, I don't think Lavos is directly responsible for the large enormous gravity well gate. This gate is unlike any other gate in the entire game. I believe it comes from the interruption of Magus's summoning of Lavos.
Before said gate emerges, Magus says, "You! If you hadn't shown up...!"
This mysterious gate sends people within it to two different time periods...even though four people enter, none end up in the End of Time...instead, one is sent to Zeal and three others are sent to Ayla's Prehistoric Era...
Now, it's possible that Lavos created this gate, hell it's possible that this is what happens even if Crono & Co. don't interrupt Magus (all we know is "Magus was defeated"...being sent to god knows where in time would suffice). But since Magus says that line, I'm inclined to believe that it's a malfunction regarding his summoning...
Either way, there's still a few unaccounted for gates...like Lucca's pink gate for instance...
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Either way, there's still a few unaccounted for gates...like Lucca's pink gate for instance...
There was a discussion about that ages ago. It may have even been at OCR. I'm not sure if anything conclusive was ever decided. If it was here, and I think it was, it may still be in an old thread somewhere.
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1. Entity made it in pity for Lucca
2. Lucca made it through some miracle of knowledge and precision
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Yeah, Zeality...But I was saying it as refution to the Lavos-theory that was presented...Did Lavos feel pity for Lucca? is what I'm getting at...and the answer? no.
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Is this article nearing completion?
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Well, I thought I'd try and add something to the Spekkio Theory, so, I'll try and refute Zeality's refutation of it...
Refution
ZeaLitY: The foreseeable problems with this theory are, a.) why Spekkio would simply not destroy Lavos himself, b.) Schala refutions (check that theory section) c.) Spekkio never explicitly claims to want Lavos dead, nor is the Entity especially affiliated with magic. Though it can create Gates, it is unknown whether magic is the mechanism by which it is done.
A.) Spekkio says that he is only as powerful as those that he faces. He couldn't fight Lavos in combat, because there is the chance that Lavos could win, if they were equally matched. After all, Lavos could battle Spekkio multiple times; Each of his outer shells forms, then his Inner body, then the core itself. Spekkio is powerful, but he may not be able to handle Lavos several times, if at each fight he is only Lavos' equal. It'd be better to give power to a group of people that have the potential to defeat him.
B.) I'm afraid that I'm not understanding this point. Could I get some clarity, please?
C.) The fact that Spekkio gives magical power to Crono and company shows support towards destroying Lavos, if he is in fact the Entity. Unfortunately, this is circle logic, but I can't think of anything for this right now. It seems to me that magic is involved in the creation of the gates, but I have to focus my thoughts on it first...
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Does this really need to be an article? The only viable candidate I can see besides the planet is Guruship of Zeal, as they seemingly collaborated before Chrono Trigger. Barring the overwhelming evidence from the planet, a lot of the other theories still don't warrant presentation.