Chrono Compendium

Enhasa Halls - Chrono Series Analysis => Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities => Topic started by: CatchRBFivy on July 18, 2005, 01:39:51 pm

Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: CatchRBFivy on July 18, 2005, 01:39:51 pm
Now its been a while since I played CC and I can't remember where it picked up (1010AD?) but if you fight Lavos at 1999 AD as he is erupting, wouldn't the world already be destroyed by his eruption, still bringing all that death and destrution to earth? So what future gets saved by Crono and co. if that still happens?  Or is it Lavos' suckign the planet dry that actually kills it?

Another thing.  Does CC assume that you fought lavos at 1999AD?  What if you kill it in Zeal through the Black Omen of 12000 BC?  Wouldn't that eliminate Serge's travels to fight TD since Shala has nothing to fuse with?
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: DarkGizmo on July 18, 2005, 02:37:30 pm
Well the Darkness Beyond Time has no time so everything that gets sent here are all together.

You fight Lavos before he erupt.

Since the DBT is timeless Schala coudl still merge with Lavos independent from when you killed him
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: CatchRBFivy on July 18, 2005, 05:56:45 pm
Quote from: DarkGizmo
Well the Darkness Beyond Time has no time so everything that gets sent here are all together.

You fight Lavos before he erupt.

Since the DBT is timeless Schala coudl still merge with Lavos independent from when you killed him


If Lavos exists where there is no time, then how can he ever be eradicated?  Such as separating Schala from Lavos and then killing Lavos/TD wouldn't do much since there could be other scenarios involving Lavos still surviving since he is independent of the time he was killed by the cross.  Right?  I don't really understand how it works....and what i just said.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: V_Translanka on July 18, 2005, 07:21:59 pm
I think 'timeless' might have been a poor choice of words...And really...Lavos doesn't reside in the DBT, only the DoT does. Lavos resides in his whakky Pocket Dimension.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: DarkGizmo on July 18, 2005, 11:18:57 pm
What could be use for instead of timeless?

It is believe thatLavos jsut stop existing from the DBT when separated from Schala
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: CatchRBFivy on July 18, 2005, 11:43:29 pm
but that is so vague!
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: V_Translanka on July 19, 2005, 01:08:20 am
Yeah, but the Pocket Dimension isn't timeless.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: DarkGizmo on July 19, 2005, 01:58:26 am
No I wa stalking about the DBT not the pocket dimension
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: V_Translanka on July 19, 2005, 02:55:20 am
Yeah, but, he's not really asking about the DBT & the DoT...His question is more regarding the Lavos fight in the PD.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: Zaperking on July 19, 2005, 03:06:44 am
Time in the DBT passes slower than in any timeline. If you go from 10,000BC to 2,400AD and then went to the DBT, the only time that would have passed is the time that it took you to get from 10,000AD to 2,400AD by time travelling.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: Lordchander on July 22, 2005, 07:28:02 am
As Zaperking said, there is still time, but very very very slow, if it was 'timeless', no one would be able to move.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: DarkGizmo on July 22, 2005, 12:50:11 pm
I was talking abou the DTB because he said that Schala would be sent to DBT in 12,000 BC and Lavos in 1999 AD so they wouldn't be able to merge, so I replied that it is timeless so any event that goes there crash together and all and I think Lavos and Schala crashing was totally random and created some kind of Pocket dimension in the DTB

Quote from: Lordchander
As Zaperking said, there is still time, but very very very slow, if it was 'timeless', no one would be able to move.

Well if no time = no move doesn't slow time = slow move?
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: Beer Pope on July 22, 2005, 11:23:22 pm
No time at all would be light speed according to special relativity, we have no idea if an organism moving at light speed would be able to feel anything or move.  Naturally, not having time doesn't work that way in the Chrono universe.  It's more like being outside of the flow of time.  So if somebody leaves, waits ten minutes, then comes back, you have no idea how long they were outside of DBT.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: CatchRBFivy on July 23, 2005, 12:59:09 am
Yeah, thats right.  Me and my friend actually got into a long conversation about Einstein, relativity, and time travel because of this book he stole from a library by accident.  Apparently, if you are traveling at the speed of light, time moves DRASTICLY SLOWER.  A good example is from the 'Ender's Game' series by Orson Scott Card.  When they travel at the speed of light from one planet to another what takes teh travelers 20 minutes actually takes the people outside the speed of light 20 years. (not exact proportions but I'm just illustrating the idea here.)

So thats why she can Merge with Lavos in 1999 AD when being sent from 12,000BC because time is moving so slow for lavos that the difference from 12,000 BC to 1999 AD would be insignificant (if thats how the DBT works anyway.  Buts its all just a theory and cannot be proved, yet hopefully it will be someday!
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: Sentenal on July 23, 2005, 01:28:43 am
Okay, 2 things:  Lavos does erupt, but Crono faces him before he actually does the attack to destroy the planet.  I'm not sure about ramming the epoch through the shell, but in the other 2 ways, it does show Lavos erupt.

The game assumes any of the final endings with Crono alive.

The blackomen transends time.  Or at least, the blackomen is the same throughout time.  If that makes any sense.  For example, if you beat the Omen in 1000ad, its gone in all eras.  I've always believed the Black Omen is connected to 1999ad.  But not much evidence either way.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: CatchRBFivy on July 23, 2005, 01:43:51 am
the black omen is so strange though if thats the case.  Because if you go to 2300 AD and fight the security lasers you cannot fight them again in earlier time periods which are all before that instance.  However, if you destroy the 1000 AD black omen, you can still encounter it in 600 AD and 12,000 BC, but you, Sentenal, said you cannot.  I thought you could, I'll go check now, I might be wrong here.

Am I missing some aspect of it transcending time, or is it an error by the programmers, or is it just like that because it just is?
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: DarkGizmo on July 23, 2005, 02:47:09 am
I have a question that just popped, can you watch Lavos erupting in 1999 AD again and again? If you can, when the black omen is in the sky and you watch the video sequence you should see the black omen, but is it there?
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: Beer Pope on July 23, 2005, 05:50:01 am
Quote from: DarkGizmo
I have a question that just popped, can you watch Lavos erupting in 1999 AD again and again? If you can, when the black omen is in the sky and you watch the video sequence you should see the black omen, but is it there?


Yes, you can watch it over and over and over.  Seems to be in direct defiance of our theories on gate physics.   The Lavos gate is probably special,  because it's in a bucket.

When you see lavos erupt after defeating Zeal on the black omen, the omen is pulled downwards and disintigrates before Lavos surfaces.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: Lordchander on July 23, 2005, 06:52:33 am
Its not the fact that its in a bucket, Beer, its the Gate itself, a very strange Gate. Which reminds me, why are the Gates in the forest scene red and the one in New Game+ at the fair green?
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: SilentMartyr on July 23, 2005, 11:53:09 am
Quote from: Lordchander
Its not the fact that its in a bucket, Beer, its the Gate itself, a very strange Gate. Which reminds me, why are the Gates in the forest scene red and the one in New Game+ at the fair green?


The bucket gate is special because it ALWAYS goes to the exact moment of Lavos's eruption. It isn't with the other gates in the EoT, and the Epoch does the same thing when traveling to that time. Lucca's gate is red because the entity is directly giving Lucca the chance to change history and save her mothers legs. I bet that if anyone besides Lucca had tried to go into that gate, something crazy would have happened. The first gate is green because it isn't part of the story, you don't get to use that gate until you play new game + and it only shows up in a new game + game.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: Legend of the Past on July 23, 2005, 12:10:26 pm
Quote from: SilentMartyr
Quote from: Lordchander
Its not the fact that its in a bucket, Beer, its the Gate itself, a very strange Gate. Which reminds me, why are the Gates in the forest scene red and the one in New Game+ at the fair green?


The bucket gate is special because it ALWAYS goes to the exact moment of Lavos's eruption. It isn't with the other gates in the EoT, and the Epoch does the same thing when traveling to that time. Lucca's gate is red because the entity is directly giving Lucca the chance to change history and save her mothers legs. I bet that if anyone besides Lucca had tried to go into that gate, something crazy would have happened. The first gate is green because it isn't part of the story, you don't get to use that gate until you play new game + and it only shows up in a new game + game.


Notice how Spekkio comes out of that gate in one of the endings.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: CatchRBFivy on July 23, 2005, 03:41:21 pm
Perhaps Lavos' eruption affects time whereas it causes the gate to lapse and only lead up to that moment.  Because things you do in other time periods are already completed and cannot be done again (time bastard?)
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: Lordchander on July 24, 2005, 01:23:42 am
Quote from: Legend
Notice how Spekkio comes out of that gate in one of the endings.


Really? Which ending was that? And what reason would Spekkio have to leave the EoT, that would be against the rules of a 'god' or whatever he is.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: L33t Ninj4 on July 31, 2005, 12:19:16 am
Quote from: CatchRBFivy
Perhaps Lavos' eruption affects time whereas it causes the gate to lapse and only lead up to that moment.  Because things you do in other time periods are already completed and cannot be done again (time bastard?)


I've always assumed it was the Entity that was in control of the bucket gate and was the reason the Epoch always travelled to the same exact moment in time when you jumped to 1999AD. Assuming it was the Entity that wanted the travellers to defeat Lavos in the first place, it probably didn't want them to be tardy or unprepared for their appointment with destiny. Note that when you show up in 1999AD you are usually granted the option to fight or leave, and wouldn't it suck for a level-22 Crono to show up with Aeon Blade in hand and be stuck there. Mad beatdowns would ensue.

I also think that's why after you defeat the Lavos shell, that gate inside of the shell appears. After that, when you return to 1999AD, you don't have to fight the shell again. It's like christmas everyday with the Entity.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: V_Translanka on July 31, 2005, 07:53:00 am
I'm fairly sure that the inside of Lavos gate only appears when you go through the Black Omen. Even if you leave and then go through Lavos via different means, the gate is no longer there (unless your 'other means' is another Black Omen that is...).
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: Legend of the Past on July 31, 2005, 08:10:06 am
Bah, not Spekkio, Gasper... I think you get that one when you crash Epoch to get to Lavos.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: L33t Ninj4 on July 31, 2005, 08:19:27 am
Quote from: V_Translanka
I'm fairly sure that the inside of Lavos gate only appears when you go through the Black Omen. Even if you leave and then go through Lavos via different means, the gate is no longer there (unless your 'other means' is another Black Omen that is...).


Not necessarily, you can take the bucket gate to the gate inside of Lavos as well. Atleast, you can do it in a new game+.

Either way, how you get there is actually irrelevent. It's the fact that you can use it after defeating the shell and that afterwards it never brings you back to the moment Lavos actually erupts that I was attempting to illustrate.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: SilentMartyr on July 31, 2005, 08:13:54 pm
The gate inside the shell appears everytime except for when you crash Epoch into Lavos.

Gaspar doesn't leave the EoT if you crash Epoch, crashing Epoch gets you the balloon ending (best ending!). I don't recall Gaspar leaving the EoT in any of the endings, but I haven't seen them all in a year or so.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: V_Translanka on July 31, 2005, 08:16:26 pm
He leaves in the ending before you revive Crono, doesn't he?
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: SilentMartyr on July 31, 2005, 08:26:49 pm
You mean the ending where they revive Crono? I think they are talking to Gaspar in the EoT, but like I said, I haven't seen them all in a while.
Title: 1999 AD Gate and CC as a prequel...
Post by: V_Translanka on July 31, 2005, 08:38:35 pm
Yeah, but Gaspar runs away from the EoT when the rest of the team follows him, doesn't he? Man, it's been so long...I gotta crack open CT again...