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1
Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Porre = Nazi Germany?
« on: February 11, 2006, 01:02:34 am »
A-ha. Thanks, Zeality. (Yeah, I need the PSX version for these anime scenes.)
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Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Porre = Nazi Germany?
« on: February 11, 2006, 12:50:41 am »
The little graphic on my poor TV makes it look like a really bad swastika, sorry.
And I don't think we could consider Porre colonial; correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am), but Porre barely colonized the El Nido Archipelago, if at all. That would give them an Imperialist Stance toward that region.
But against Guardia, they were perhaps Nationalist and Militaristic. I don't think they so much treated them the way Nazis would as, say, Soviet Russia, perhaps?
And I don't think we could consider Porre colonial; correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am), but Porre barely colonized the El Nido Archipelago, if at all. That would give them an Imperialist Stance toward that region.
But against Guardia, they were perhaps Nationalist and Militaristic. I don't think they so much treated them the way Nazis would as, say, Soviet Russia, perhaps?
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Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Porre = Nazi Germany?
« on: February 08, 2006, 12:20:27 am »
You're taking it a bit too far.
Comparing something to Nazi Germany does not equal mass murders and concentration camps. The rapid rate of military growth, the sudden change in government, and the authoritarian way in which they appear to run things (granted, El Nido is a suppressed colony) points toward a Nazist regime.
I will concede the comparisons between much older empires could also be applied, but if you consider El Nido to be like Poland (rapid expansion and taking over into another nation), but consider that perhaps Guardia has more in common with America before/during World War I (basically turning its back on the actions of the Triple Alliance), then you could see why they could do what they did to El Nido.
Comparing something to Nazi Germany does not equal mass murders and concentration camps. The rapid rate of military growth, the sudden change in government, and the authoritarian way in which they appear to run things (granted, El Nido is a suppressed colony) points toward a Nazist regime.
I will concede the comparisons between much older empires could also be applied, but if you consider El Nido to be like Poland (rapid expansion and taking over into another nation), but consider that perhaps Guardia has more in common with America before/during World War I (basically turning its back on the actions of the Triple Alliance), then you could see why they could do what they did to El Nido.
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Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Porre = Nazi Germany?
« on: February 07, 2006, 11:03:11 am »
I just thought of a way that Porre could both rise quickly, and why they're so militaristic in Chrono Cross.
Forgive me if this has been addressed before.
If you look around Termina in CC, you notice that the Porre flag is at once everyone, as are its men. This is reminiscent of a martialed town, but if you look at the flags, then they kind of look like a swastika if you cut off two of the "legs". Kinda like Nazi's, yeah?
Anyway, a theory about Porre, which I came up while looking at this, suggests that they also rose to power quickly because a militaristic, idealistic man rose up and began to lead Porre on the fast track to militarism. The leader rallied the citizens and soldiers behind a common cause (possibly saying that any and all hardships suffered by them was because of Guardia and its evil might), and used that to build the citizens' loyalty to him. He then mobilized the country, sending people to both El Nido and Fiona's Forest for raw materials. Like the Nazis, he hid a rapidly growing army behind "gun clubs" (since Porreans were "above" swords), "science clubs," (labs hidden in the best spot: out in the open, developing new technology rapidly), and so forth.
It took Nazi Germany about 8 years, plus or minus a few, to grow as big as it did behind Hitler. By comparison, we could say that due to the accelerated rate of everything in the Chrono world, it would take about 4 years for Porre to become the power like it did. Following its amazing power growth, it then proceeded to take over Zenan, most likely starting with Guardia first. Using technology both researched and reverse-engineered or simply used from El Nido, they would quickly take over, using a uniformly advanced army/navy and possibly even Air Force.
So... thoughts?
Forgive me if this has been addressed before.
If you look around Termina in CC, you notice that the Porre flag is at once everyone, as are its men. This is reminiscent of a martialed town, but if you look at the flags, then they kind of look like a swastika if you cut off two of the "legs". Kinda like Nazi's, yeah?
Anyway, a theory about Porre, which I came up while looking at this, suggests that they also rose to power quickly because a militaristic, idealistic man rose up and began to lead Porre on the fast track to militarism. The leader rallied the citizens and soldiers behind a common cause (possibly saying that any and all hardships suffered by them was because of Guardia and its evil might), and used that to build the citizens' loyalty to him. He then mobilized the country, sending people to both El Nido and Fiona's Forest for raw materials. Like the Nazis, he hid a rapidly growing army behind "gun clubs" (since Porreans were "above" swords), "science clubs," (labs hidden in the best spot: out in the open, developing new technology rapidly), and so forth.
It took Nazi Germany about 8 years, plus or minus a few, to grow as big as it did behind Hitler. By comparison, we could say that due to the accelerated rate of everything in the Chrono world, it would take about 4 years for Porre to become the power like it did. Following its amazing power growth, it then proceeded to take over Zenan, most likely starting with Guardia first. Using technology both researched and reverse-engineered or simply used from El Nido, they would quickly take over, using a uniformly advanced army/navy and possibly even Air Force.
So... thoughts?
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Crono vs. Frog
« on: February 04, 2006, 01:52:23 am »
I vote for neither, and instead bring up points on how close of a fight it would be.
Pros - Chrono:
- The Rainbow is a blade made from a strong alloy (assuming here) that could conceivably cut through anything.
- A Katana fighting style suggests speed (which Chrono has) and powerful, quick blows (which Chrono also has).
- Chrono is self-taught, and thus conformed the Iaijutsu fighting style to himself and not himself to it, thus giving himself some extra, possibly unknown fighting tactics.
Pros - Frog/Glenn:
- He's had formal training from Cyrus. Thus, he uses an actual fighting style... probably.
- He wields the Masamune, a broadsword of amazing power. It is KNOWN that it can cut through anything.
- He's not as quick, but Frog's balance of higher offense and defense would come in handy. Speed is kind of useless when your opponent can turn away all your attacks with a simple parry or feint.
- His small size suggests a smaller target.
----
In theory, the fight would be amazing. Chrono would mix amazing speed with unrivaled offense, while Frog would have a powerful offense with an intelligent defense.
Pros - Chrono:
- The Rainbow is a blade made from a strong alloy (assuming here) that could conceivably cut through anything.
- A Katana fighting style suggests speed (which Chrono has) and powerful, quick blows (which Chrono also has).
- Chrono is self-taught, and thus conformed the Iaijutsu fighting style to himself and not himself to it, thus giving himself some extra, possibly unknown fighting tactics.
Pros - Frog/Glenn:
- He's had formal training from Cyrus. Thus, he uses an actual fighting style... probably.
- He wields the Masamune, a broadsword of amazing power. It is KNOWN that it can cut through anything.
- He's not as quick, but Frog's balance of higher offense and defense would come in handy. Speed is kind of useless when your opponent can turn away all your attacks with a simple parry or feint.
- His small size suggests a smaller target.
----
In theory, the fight would be amazing. Chrono would mix amazing speed with unrivaled offense, while Frog would have a powerful offense with an intelligent defense.
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General Discussion / 1st post! Dont know what forum to post this question on.....
« on: February 04, 2006, 12:47:57 am »
Go away.
I mean, hi.
btw, many boards make a sticky thread dedicated to newb introduction. Maybe we could do that?
I mean, hi.
btw, many boards make a sticky thread dedicated to newb introduction. Maybe we could do that?
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Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Masamune & Murasame-Swords of Squeenix
« on: February 02, 2006, 12:36:36 am »
My mistake about the FFVII swords, by the way.
...
And everyone knows the world will end in 2015AD when a blue-haired albino girl eats an Angel through a pedophile's hand, grows into a giant, and sucks all the souls of mankind into her stigmata, thus turning everyones' bodies into Tang.
...
And everyone knows the world will end in 2015AD when a blue-haired albino girl eats an Angel through a pedophile's hand, grows into a giant, and sucks all the souls of mankind into her stigmata, thus turning everyones' bodies into Tang.
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General Discussion / Quote Digest
« on: February 02, 2006, 12:28:43 am »Quote from: The U.S. Navy
We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, that we are capable of doing anything with nothing.
A Navy quote about the fact that our military is unappreciated, no matter what. There will always be some people who hate the troops, and will do anything to see them without anything.
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General Discussion / The Real Chrono Dream Team
« on: February 02, 2006, 12:10:12 am »
Hmm... I'll probably get reamed for this, but I have to say it.
Xenogears is the best PS1 RPG out there. It's better than Legend of Dragoon, Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy VII/VIII/IX, Parasite Eve 1 & 2, and whatever else came out for PS1 that resembled an RPG, except MAYBE Lunar: SSSC.
*cough*
Back on-topic: Haven't most of the CDT quit Squeenix?
Xenogears is the best PS1 RPG out there. It's better than Legend of Dragoon, Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy VII/VIII/IX, Parasite Eve 1 & 2, and whatever else came out for PS1 that resembled an RPG, except MAYBE Lunar: SSSC.
*cough*
Back on-topic: Haven't most of the CDT quit Squeenix?
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Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Masamune & Murasame-Swords of Squeenix
« on: January 29, 2006, 01:47:10 am »
Murasame is also the name of Sephiroth's Katana.
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General Discussion / Old and new Consoles
« on: January 28, 2006, 03:07:52 am »Quote from: Radical_Dreamer
Download service for classic games? Win.Quote
We've been doing this for years. They're called ROMs, and they're free. The only difference with Revolution is that you have less selection for a price.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Chrono Trigger Meets Dungeons & Dragons
« on: January 28, 2006, 02:30:43 am »Quote from: Lord J esq
Quote from: SilentMartyrI would have to agree with GG, Crono's actions tends to lean more towards the side of chaotic. He is irrational(Not that his decisions are poor but that they rarely seem to benefit Crono's well being), quick to act, and he breaks the law on numerous occasions. Everything else is tip top shape.
You're a bit off-track with the D&D alignment scheme. I classified Crono as a Neutral, not a Lawful. Neutrality is not simply the absence or balance of Chaos and Law, but rather a third pole in its own right. Crono is definitely not inconsistent in his actions, nor unprincipled, nor unpredictable--traits we would expect to see in him if he were a Chaotic. He marches to the beat of his own drum, but is true to his convictions in a very consistent way. He is pretty clearly a Neutral.
You're thinking in Second Edition D&D terms, in which a Chaotic Neutral character was practically insane. Chaos does not necessarily mean inconsistency, being unprincipled, or unpredictable. Rather, to quote:
"Chaos implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them."
In this light, you can say that Crono acted within his own rights, thus putting him out of synch with the rest of society. Jumping into the Time Gate at the very beginning of the game was definitely a reckless and irresponsible thing to do, but it was something definitely good, as well.
Chaotic Good, "Rebel"
A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he’s kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society. [/i]
Example: Crono's actions in 600AD threw him out of synch with society because he acted outside the king's orders to end the Mystic War.
If you want to be more specific, then I would have to say that Crono would be "Chaotic Good, with Neutral Tendencies".
Neutrality is less of a third pole than it is a middle ground between poles. It's the gray area, in which characters pass through when heading for one alignment.
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Fan Fiction / CT Story Idea - The Fall of Guardia
« on: January 28, 2006, 02:02:10 am »
Okay, we know that 5 years or so from 1000AD, Porre will rise to power and declare war on Guardia, resulting in its subsequent fall from power and whatnot.
This, however, imposes a question: With immensly strong people like Chrono, Marle, Lucca, and Robo (I forget if it is still in that time) hanging out at home, which, safe to say, is in Truce... what kind of power did Porre have?
Think about it: Porre would have to kill Chrono, who wields the strongest sword in existence, probably wears the strongest armor, and is backed by a master archer, a brilliant gunner, and a tank... I mean, robot.
So how did Porre NOT fall?
And rise to power, for that matter?
The reason I ask is for a story I'm thinking of writing, detailing the Porre/Guardia war as something on a more epic scale that what is the norm for CT. I've read the theory (read: theories) here, but I can't find one that seems more commonly accepted over the other.
I'm going to write a story involving two nations warring against each other, each side with its own heroes and villains, and told from both points of view.
Of course, we know how it'll end (we think): Guardia falls in the end... but what about Crono, Marle/Nadia, Lucca (okay, she's not so much a mystery), and Robo? If anyone has any good ideas or explanations I just didn't see on this site, that would be great.
And it there's any stories that have already attempted this.
This, however, imposes a question: With immensly strong people like Chrono, Marle, Lucca, and Robo (I forget if it is still in that time) hanging out at home, which, safe to say, is in Truce... what kind of power did Porre have?
Think about it: Porre would have to kill Chrono, who wields the strongest sword in existence, probably wears the strongest armor, and is backed by a master archer, a brilliant gunner, and a tank... I mean, robot.
So how did Porre NOT fall?
And rise to power, for that matter?
The reason I ask is for a story I'm thinking of writing, detailing the Porre/Guardia war as something on a more epic scale that what is the norm for CT. I've read the theory (read: theories) here, but I can't find one that seems more commonly accepted over the other.
I'm going to write a story involving two nations warring against each other, each side with its own heroes and villains, and told from both points of view.
Of course, we know how it'll end (we think): Guardia falls in the end... but what about Crono, Marle/Nadia, Lucca (okay, she's not so much a mystery), and Robo? If anyone has any good ideas or explanations I just didn't see on this site, that would be great.
And it there's any stories that have already attempted this.
14
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Chrono Trigger Meets Dungeons & Dragons
« on: January 22, 2006, 03:44:46 am »
The problem with D&D alignments is that the game itself doesn't expect too many situations that are this deep. For example, it is perfectly reasonable for two Lawful Good characters to fight each other to the death - they may be members of different warring nations, for example - or for the Chaotic Evil guy to help out the party, because he gets what he wants in the end. However, D&D usually becomes a clear game of Good v. Evil, which is why the developers didn't put much thought into it.
(Though if you read the Book of Vile Darkness and the Book of Exalted Deeds Supplemental Books, that changes entirely.)
As for me, I have a different view of the cast.
Chrono - Chaotic Good
Much of what has been said about Chrono is true up to a point; his lawful bent. I believe that personally Chrono is more worried about the end of the fight with Lavos, without care for the law. He is a character devoted to the path of justice against evil without need for the laws that bind. Thus, Chaos is his nature.
====
Frog - Lawful Good, later Neutral Good
The thing about Frog is that his approach on life changes somewhere down the line of the story. At first, he is a Knight, pure and simple; he's also Lawful Good personified. However, as the events of the story progress, Frog seems more devoted to the destruction of Lavos and evil outright, and seems to strive down greater lengths to do so. I believe this causes an Alignment Shift on the Law/Chaos axis toward the chaotic side, but stops him square in the middle.
====
Robo - True Neutral
There's a reason for this.
First off, though he is a sentient "being", Robo is still a machine. He is programmed and acts on that information. If you want to take it further, he too is bound by Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics. The reason he appears good is because he is programmed that way. His exterior persona can change and can influence what will happen within him accordingly, but I believe that Robo is still bound by programming, despite what happens in the game.
====
Magus - Neutral Evil, True Neutral
At first, Magus actually is evil. His quest to destroy Lavos is his alone, and he's willing to use people to achieve that end. In D&D land, that's selfish and evil.
Otherwise... he's about the same.
====
This wasn't asked for, but I'm going to put down character classes for some characters, too, as 30th Level characters.
-
Chrono: Fighter 10 / Sorcerer 10 / Eldritch Knight 10
Chrono is hard to determine, given his inherit magical and physical abilities. The fighter class should be obvious (Chrono's abilities are fighter abilities for a long time before he gets magic.) After Spekkio, he sets on the Sorcerer path for a while, and then finally he takes 10 levels in the Eldritch Knight class (As a variant, Spellsword 10), to increase his fighter abilities and his casting abilities at the same time.
-
Marle: Scout 10 / Cleric 15 / Hierophant 5
Marle is far easier. The Scout is a base class introduced in the Complete Adventurer Supplemental, and is extremely useful as an archer class. The Cleric levels are easy to see why, as well; Marle uses primarily healing spells with a few attack spells, and that is the Cleric personified. The Hierophant is simply an uber-Cleric, and thus logically she becomes one.
-
Lucca: Rogue 15 / Wizard 10 / Cleric 5
Lucca always seemed Marle's foil to me when it came to combat, so I reversed their methods of casting. The Rogue has the largest skill-set in D&D, so it only made sense that Lucca start out as one. The Sorceress levels exist because of her strong casting ability, and the Cleric spells complement those as well.
-
Frog: Paladin 10 / Fighter 10 / Weapon Master 10
Frog was of course a Paladin once, what with his healing spells and strong attack abilities. When his alignment shifts, however, he begins taking levels in Fighter instead, and his spellcasting power comes solely from his Paladin levels at that point in the game. As the game nears its end, Frog becomes a stronger swordsman than Chrono, and thus starts the Weapon Master track.
-
Robo: None (Large Construct)
-
Magus: Sorcerer 5 / Cleric 5 / Mystic Theurge 10 / Hierophant 5 / Archmage 5
You should have seen this one coming. Magus is the strongest caster in the game, and his levels in both Cleric and Sorc are reminescent of that. Since both of those would be useless if one became stronger, Magus takes the Mystic Theurge, which rases both Arcane and Divine spellcasting powers. After he maxes out that class, he takes levels interchangably in Hierophant and Archmage, thus gaining access to those overpowered epic spells he uses in the final moments of the game.
(Though if you read the Book of Vile Darkness and the Book of Exalted Deeds Supplemental Books, that changes entirely.)
As for me, I have a different view of the cast.
Chrono - Chaotic Good
Much of what has been said about Chrono is true up to a point; his lawful bent. I believe that personally Chrono is more worried about the end of the fight with Lavos, without care for the law. He is a character devoted to the path of justice against evil without need for the laws that bind. Thus, Chaos is his nature.
====
Frog - Lawful Good, later Neutral Good
The thing about Frog is that his approach on life changes somewhere down the line of the story. At first, he is a Knight, pure and simple; he's also Lawful Good personified. However, as the events of the story progress, Frog seems more devoted to the destruction of Lavos and evil outright, and seems to strive down greater lengths to do so. I believe this causes an Alignment Shift on the Law/Chaos axis toward the chaotic side, but stops him square in the middle.
====
Robo - True Neutral
There's a reason for this.
First off, though he is a sentient "being", Robo is still a machine. He is programmed and acts on that information. If you want to take it further, he too is bound by Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics. The reason he appears good is because he is programmed that way. His exterior persona can change and can influence what will happen within him accordingly, but I believe that Robo is still bound by programming, despite what happens in the game.
====
Magus - Neutral Evil, True Neutral
At first, Magus actually is evil. His quest to destroy Lavos is his alone, and he's willing to use people to achieve that end. In D&D land, that's selfish and evil.
Otherwise... he's about the same.
====
This wasn't asked for, but I'm going to put down character classes for some characters, too, as 30th Level characters.
-
Chrono: Fighter 10 / Sorcerer 10 / Eldritch Knight 10
Chrono is hard to determine, given his inherit magical and physical abilities. The fighter class should be obvious (Chrono's abilities are fighter abilities for a long time before he gets magic.) After Spekkio, he sets on the Sorcerer path for a while, and then finally he takes 10 levels in the Eldritch Knight class (As a variant, Spellsword 10), to increase his fighter abilities and his casting abilities at the same time.
-
Marle: Scout 10 / Cleric 15 / Hierophant 5
Marle is far easier. The Scout is a base class introduced in the Complete Adventurer Supplemental, and is extremely useful as an archer class. The Cleric levels are easy to see why, as well; Marle uses primarily healing spells with a few attack spells, and that is the Cleric personified. The Hierophant is simply an uber-Cleric, and thus logically she becomes one.
-
Lucca: Rogue 15 / Wizard 10 / Cleric 5
Lucca always seemed Marle's foil to me when it came to combat, so I reversed their methods of casting. The Rogue has the largest skill-set in D&D, so it only made sense that Lucca start out as one. The Sorceress levels exist because of her strong casting ability, and the Cleric spells complement those as well.
-
Frog: Paladin 10 / Fighter 10 / Weapon Master 10
Frog was of course a Paladin once, what with his healing spells and strong attack abilities. When his alignment shifts, however, he begins taking levels in Fighter instead, and his spellcasting power comes solely from his Paladin levels at that point in the game. As the game nears its end, Frog becomes a stronger swordsman than Chrono, and thus starts the Weapon Master track.
-
Robo: None (Large Construct)
-
Magus: Sorcerer 5 / Cleric 5 / Mystic Theurge 10 / Hierophant 5 / Archmage 5
You should have seen this one coming. Magus is the strongest caster in the game, and his levels in both Cleric and Sorc are reminescent of that. Since both of those would be useless if one became stronger, Magus takes the Mystic Theurge, which rases both Arcane and Divine spellcasting powers. After he maxes out that class, he takes levels interchangably in Hierophant and Archmage, thus gaining access to those overpowered epic spells he uses in the final moments of the game.
15
General Discussion / I Come From the Beyond... or Something Cheesy Like That.
« on: January 22, 2006, 02:34:24 am »
Thanks. I'll try and be at least a bit useful.
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