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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: [ - [ HELP THE CHRONO SERIES OUT by doing something EASY ] - ]
« on: March 06, 2009, 03:46:23 pm »
PM sent. I hope this is as easy as you say. 
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Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Re: Need confirmation about the Dragonian dimension...
« on: January 14, 2008, 12:03:26 pm »
But if this theory is true, then that would mean that Ayla (and by proxy Leah) was the deciding factor in the dimentional split. Both CT and CC say that the Reptites dying out was a direct result of Lavos and the consequential ice age. Saying that Leah is the Dragonian Dimention 'key' raises more questions than it solves IMHO. I see no reason why removing Leah from the timeline would cause a dimentional split.
The only way, I can see it working is if the Reptite defeat at the Tyran Lair stopped the Reptites from making a retreat, but this is tenious at the best, especially once you concider the Pre-Crono timeline. I doubt Ayla would've been able to storm the Tyran Lair on her own. It's a shame that we don't know what happened in the original timeline during the Pre-historic era. But until something comes along to contradict it, I'm going with established canon; namely that the Reptites died out as a direct result of the Ice Age.
The only way, I can see it working is if the Reptite defeat at the Tyran Lair stopped the Reptites from making a retreat, but this is tenious at the best, especially once you concider the Pre-Crono timeline. I doubt Ayla would've been able to storm the Tyran Lair on her own. It's a shame that we don't know what happened in the original timeline during the Pre-historic era. But until something comes along to contradict it, I'm going with established canon; namely that the Reptites died out as a direct result of the Ice Age.
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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Lavos and Guardian (boss) paradox?
« on: January 14, 2008, 11:50:13 am »
Question: Why can't the Pocket Dimention merely exist in all eras at the same time including the ruined future. Whos to say he doesn't go back into his PD after the Day of Lavos? When Chrono and teh gang defeat him, they are simultaniously defeating him in all the eras.
This could also provide a solution to the Doan Paradox. Maybe the Chrono team exited the PD in the ruined future and picked up Doan from there. Even after they defeat Lavos, they wouldn't be able to access the new timeline until they time-travelled to a point before 1999 AD.
This could also provide a solution to the Doan Paradox. Maybe the Chrono team exited the PD in the ruined future and picked up Doan from there. Even after they defeat Lavos, they wouldn't be able to access the new timeline until they time-travelled to a point before 1999 AD.
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Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Re: Insane Theory #99
« on: January 14, 2008, 11:40:41 am »
Nice theory we got. The best part about it is that it explains someting that has always left a nasty taste in my mouth; the idea that every member of Lavos species could potentially become something that could destroy the universe. Indeed pretty much all evidence points to the risk to the universe as being an overstatement: for example the fact that only someone from the Chrono planet can stop him, as well as the idea that out of all the universe, Schala is the one that becomes aprt of Time Devourer.
Indeed, scaling the risk of the Time Devourer down to 'only' a planetary level, works out much better in my opinion.
Indeed, scaling the risk of the Time Devourer down to 'only' a planetary level, works out much better in my opinion.
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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: The dimensional split
« on: January 14, 2008, 11:00:22 am »
To be honest I don't understand how this solves the problem, unless Serge was constantly travelling from one active timeline to another, but of course, this obviously isn't the case concidering his part in the events of Another World. I understand the solution, but I don't see how it could fix things, so I'm gonna just assume I misunderstand the original problem.
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Site Updates / Re: CHRONO TRIGGER: PROPHET'S GUILE, CT2 Interview
« on: January 10, 2008, 09:46:39 am »
Awesome stuff. 
The only real complaint I had was that it didn't use the setting well enough. That period had so much more to offer, like the elemental palace, or the earthbound village, though I liked the referance to the hidden room being behind the bookcase. It was the only period in which we don't see the full map before Zeal's destruction as well. However, I understand that this was only supposed to be a small hack, so that was to be expected. Overall it was good and I liked the idea of showing Chrono's progression.
Although, like others here, I'm also wondering what all the random scenes were at the end.
The only real complaint I had was that it didn't use the setting well enough. That period had so much more to offer, like the elemental palace, or the earthbound village, though I liked the referance to the hidden room being behind the bookcase. It was the only period in which we don't see the full map before Zeal's destruction as well. However, I understand that this was only supposed to be a small hack, so that was to be expected. Overall it was good and I liked the idea of showing Chrono's progression. Although, like others here, I'm also wondering what all the random scenes were at the end.
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Polling / Re: Who's got the best hair?
« on: January 05, 2008, 08:26:35 am »
I'm voted for Ayla. There's something about her character design that's always been against the whole 'cavewoman' thing. She's like the diva of the Chrono series, and her hair is a part of that. 
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Site Updates / Re: We're workin' on somethin...
« on: January 02, 2008, 04:24:16 pm »
Interesting. I'll be sure to check it out.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Maybe I don't know what I'm saying but a bethazar question.
« on: December 22, 2007, 08:54:05 am »QuoteThe Neo Epoch isn't necessarily confined to the same rules of the Epoch, especially since the Entity Gates closed after Chrono Trigger.
The old Epoch could travel through time regardless of the condition of the entity gates. Not only does Marle point it out after gates have closed, but they actively use this feature as their initial bridge back into 12,000,000 BC.
EDIT: Never mind. I misunderstood whay you were saying. I thought you were saying that the Epoch could travel anywhere regardless of the gates. Rereading it, you weren't.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Maybe I don't know what I'm saying but a bethazar question.
« on: December 21, 2007, 09:22:49 pm »
Belthesar travelled using teh Neo-Epoch which can, it's presumed, go to any time destination. FATE can't time-travel but was sent to the past by the Time Crash.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: is this true?
« on: December 20, 2007, 06:55:14 pm »
Maybe Flea is a shapeshifter. He's still clearly a hermaphrodite though, he's just using different skills to appear like a woman. Perhaps Flea purposely learnt his shapeshifting skills to become a woman.
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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Guardia Royal Line Paradox
« on: December 20, 2007, 05:09:45 pm »Correct me if I'm wrong here, but according to your theory, wouldn't Ayla technically be able to meet her future-self, so long as she time-travels to a point beyond her total Time Error count?
Herein lies the problem, essentially all this does is introduce the idea that time changes at the same rate as the displaced item's Time Error, as opposed to instantly. According to your theory, if Crono and crew defeated Lavos in 1999 AD, 2300 AD would change extremely slowly. The time-travellers have to wait 301 Time Error years (After defeating Lavos) before they could access the 'good future' version of 2300 AD.
Whilst this would solve the 'Doan paradox', Robo makes it clear at the end of CT that they're travelling to a 'new' future which, I'm afraid to say, blows your theory out of the proverbial water.
I guess Ayla could meet her future self, but alas there are no examples of this (though Robo, Magus, and Lucca sort of meet their past selves).
But I never said that changes to the timeline don't happen instantly; indeed, I maintain that they do. But I also maintain that the changes have to happen before they can effect the timeline. Chrono can't change an event that would have happened when he was 30 years old until he is 30 years old. By leaving the timeline, Chrono is actually rewriting history second by second, but the changes to the timeline are instantaneous. For every day he is gone, for every second, time is changed so he is gone for that one extra second/day (as it can only be when that event is reached that Chrono can either be or not be there). There isn’t one change, there are countless changes to the timeline as it can resolve itself.
Dude, listen to what your saying. This is a complete and utter contradiction. You say they happen instantanously, and then you say that Chrono can't change an event that he does when he is 30 years old until he is 30. Thus the changes now have to happen gradually, as Crono's Time Error clocks up. Sorry, but it just doesn't work.
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Defeating Lavos in 1999 AD (technically 12,000 BC) instantly changes the future even for Robo and the others for three reasons:
1) Because Lavos isn't a time traveler and therefore not subject to Time Index.
But Chrono is, and he defeats Lavos, just as Ayla gives birth the Guardia Line. It's not about a person being a time-traveller it's about the changes that occur as a result, otherwise the Guardia Line Paradox wouldn't exist.
Besides the Lavos example was just one, I could apply it to every instance of time-travelling in the game: If your theory is true then the heroes wouldn't be able to make any change in the timeline at all, since they would have to wait for time-error to catch up to them again.
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2) Even if Lavos were subject to Time Index, Time Index arises out of unresolved potential. After Chrono first leaves in 1000AD, he may be presented in 1001 AD to perform an event that the original timeline has him performing, but he might not be present. There is potential for both outcomes and so time cannot resolve which to function off of. As no change is possible based on possibilities, the old timeline remain until changed (a concept clearly stated in the games). Death, however, is the end of possibilities (unless we want to get spiritual). Even assuming that Lavos were subject to Time Index, the moment he dies his potential is resolved. Thus, his Time Index collapses and his personal future (and the whole future based on his personal future) can be resolved.
This is where your mistake stems from: The idea that Chrono can't be assumed to come back, but neither can it assume that he WON'T come back. But of course, your overcomplicating it. This isn't about potential, it's about the actions that the team make. Causality. Chrono dissapears from history, becuase he makes the choice to leave his timeline. Cause and effect; nothing 'potential' about it. Randomly habving him reappear in the future before he has even made the choice to come back, is breaking this causality.
My point: No assumptions are being made when a time-traveller leaves, the timeline doesn't include them becuase they physically left. Cause and effect.
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3) Even assuming Lavos is effected by Time Index, and even assuming death doesn’t resolve his potential, after Lavos dies he never leaves his timeline. Thus, he has reintegrated to his own timeline and I would propose that Time Error is no longer a valid factor (Time Error effecting Gates, extra-temporal locations, and as I propose it Time Index). Not that Time Error ceases to exist; rather it just isn’t important for non-time travelers.
Once agian: this isn't anything to do with Lavos. It's all about Chrono, who changed history.
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Consider that Janus leaves 12,000 BC, travels to approximately 580ish AD, ages until he is Magus, yet can still travel back to 12,000. Even Time Error would indicate that if a gate originally opens to 12,000 BC, after 20ish years of Time Error it should open to 12,020 BC. Janus/Magus appears to be on a different Time Error than Chrono and Co (but still on some semblance of Time Error). From this example, it is implied that Time Error doesn’t need to be universally uniform. However, to offer a counter-argument, it isn’t like Janus left 12000 BC through a standard gate. I may well be drawing too much significance from a potentially anomalous event.
Yeah it was a different gate. Imagine, the gates as timeless windows with time progressing on both sides equally. If he touched the gate he came to 580 AD from, in 600 AD, then yes he would arrive 20 years after the Zeal incident. (Which BTW is 11,980, not 12,020, don't forget we're dealing with BC years here.)
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: is this true?
« on: December 20, 2007, 02:27:42 pm »I think that's completely in line with canon, actually. And unfortunately. There seems to be two streams of thought on this subject: Flea is physically a hermaphrodite, or Flea is a shapeshifter a la Sprigg, and we really don't know what his "natural" state is -- the feminine body is completely feminine, and perhaps stolen. I subscribe to the latter belief, but it does conflict with the description of the "Flea Vest" given in Chrono Cross.
In Flea's CT character design, is it proper to call what she's wearing a bustier? I always associated that word with undergarments, but maybe in medieval clothing terms that's exactly what it is. Yes, this is a serious question that needs answered!
Shapeshifter? Where have you heard that? Both CC and CT make it seem pretty clear that Flea is simply a guy who looks like a girl and likes to dress up as such. Perhaps I'm behind, but last I checked, this wasn't even a debate.
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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Guardia Royal Line Paradox
« on: December 20, 2007, 01:26:19 pm »
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but according to your theory, wouldn't Ayla technically be able to meet her future-self, so long as she time-travels to a point beyond her total Time Error count?
Herein lies the problem, it wouldn't just apply to removing someone from a timeline, it would apply to all changes made by a time traveller. Essentially all this does is introduce the idea that time changes at the same rate as the displaced item's Time Error, as opposed to instantly. According to your theory, if Crono and crew defeated Lavos in 1999 AD, 2300 AD would change extremely slowly. The time-travellers have to wait 301 Time Error years (After defeating Lavos) before they could access the 'good future' version of 2300 AD.
Whilst this would solve the 'Doan paradox', Robo makes it clear at the end of CT that they're travelling to a 'new' future which, I'm afraid to say, blows your theory out of the proverbial water, unless you can provide a reason.
Herein lies the problem, it wouldn't just apply to removing someone from a timeline, it would apply to all changes made by a time traveller. Essentially all this does is introduce the idea that time changes at the same rate as the displaced item's Time Error, as opposed to instantly. According to your theory, if Crono and crew defeated Lavos in 1999 AD, 2300 AD would change extremely slowly. The time-travellers have to wait 301 Time Error years (After defeating Lavos) before they could access the 'good future' version of 2300 AD.
Whilst this would solve the 'Doan paradox', Robo makes it clear at the end of CT that they're travelling to a 'new' future which, I'm afraid to say, blows your theory out of the proverbial water, unless you can provide a reason.
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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Guardia Royal Line Paradox
« on: December 20, 2007, 07:40:55 am »
I know I'm late to this thread, but I once posted a time-clone theory about the idea of time-clones; that their purpose is to preserve the timeline if the time-traveler would leave time. I actually dislike this theory a lot now, but it something to concider methinks:
It was originally made, becuase from what I understand Crono, Lucca and Marle travel to 2300 AD despite the fact that it is the future of their present. This shouldn't happen, since the minute they leave their time, the timeline would be altered, menaing Crono, Lucca and Marle shouldn't have been able to visit the future, especially a future with Marle's future relative.
The simple theory is those nifty clones we see are used as placeholders for the time-travellers (perhaps put in place by the entity, as a kinf of reverse-time-bastard.) to live their life for them, in order to preserve the future. This was based on observations of the use of the Crono dummy, as well as their presense in the Black Omen, were they'd be used to preserve th Omen's own existance.
It's not my favourite theory, since it's an extention of an 'entity did it' approach, but what do you guys think?
It was originally made, becuase from what I understand Crono, Lucca and Marle travel to 2300 AD despite the fact that it is the future of their present. This shouldn't happen, since the minute they leave their time, the timeline would be altered, menaing Crono, Lucca and Marle shouldn't have been able to visit the future, especially a future with Marle's future relative.
The simple theory is those nifty clones we see are used as placeholders for the time-travellers (perhaps put in place by the entity, as a kinf of reverse-time-bastard.) to live their life for them, in order to preserve the future. This was based on observations of the use of the Crono dummy, as well as their presense in the Black Omen, were they'd be used to preserve th Omen's own existance.
It's not my favourite theory, since it's an extention of an 'entity did it' approach, but what do you guys think?