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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Did crono die when porre attacked
« on: September 26, 2007, 10:30:04 am »
i didn't stress this point enough maybe... but you're just falling for a plot device. while what you say is true, that the game is the way it was supposed to be, that doesn't mean it couldn't have been different. the scenario designer, and writers, at one point decided to make the game this way. i.e. with an alternate dimension that involves minimal programming because you can just lay over on the same code.
BUT, this isn't a rl account of things, and it's not some story discovered in a pharoah's tomb. This is an arbitray, aesthetic work of fiction. And you have to objectively realize that had the plot been written differently, or even expanded upon further, we WOULD have more game to play, that's less confusing, and IS a better game.
'each country gets the government it deserves.'
In short, just because somebody makes a sequel to chrono trigger about something equally as arbitrary... say making toast; that does not mean that this quest to obtain the toaster is some sort of penultimate sequel worthy of the name, just because the game developers tell you so. Even if perhaps, you think that the bit about the butter really sounds fascinating. Bad or good, it's not predestined art writ in stone... it's still just a story.
BUT, this isn't a rl account of things, and it's not some story discovered in a pharoah's tomb. This is an arbitray, aesthetic work of fiction. And you have to objectively realize that had the plot been written differently, or even expanded upon further, we WOULD have more game to play, that's less confusing, and IS a better game.
'each country gets the government it deserves.'
In short, just because somebody makes a sequel to chrono trigger about something equally as arbitrary... say making toast; that does not mean that this quest to obtain the toaster is some sort of penultimate sequel worthy of the name, just because the game developers tell you so. Even if perhaps, you think that the bit about the butter really sounds fascinating. Bad or good, it's not predestined art writ in stone... it's still just a story.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Did crono die when porre attacked
« on: September 25, 2007, 12:51:25 pm »
It seems clear to me, that the missing link of the CC story has to be Chrono. Something has to account for chrono's absence, we all know he'd be there, kicking ass if he could. There's alot going on with the frozen flame that's unclear, then there's the trouble with reconciling a hero in this world(Serge) that isn't Chrono to begin with. Both are silent, ambiguous characters, so as a player it's unfair to leave us with nothing to distinguish the two (serge and chrono) from each other.
I say missing link, because it's blatantly obvious that Square ultimately did not put 100 percent effort in the sequel. The scope, and feel of CT is so much bigger than CC, with it's small map, and repetitive areas. You can try to explain this discrepancy with the plot device of Fate, sure... but it's still cheating us from the rest of the game. No surprises really though, we all had a hunch when we bought it and noticed two cd's... when final fantasy programming was taking up 3 and 4 discs a game. Even when you account for FMV, there's still so much game missing. Another disc or 2 would take us out of the ridiculously small island, to go see Guardia, etc. And heaven forbid they let us do any time traveling in a Chrono game...
So yeah, it's frutstrating, and we're all left guessing as to what was missing amidst ridiculous claims by the game designers that their wasn't much missing at all. My guess is that Serge's existence was some sort of contradiction to Chrono's existence, them both not being able to exist at same time, in same world, dimensions, etc. Maybe they're the same person, maybe not.. doesn't matter. I won't guess as to the specifics, because Square likes to make those as confusing as possible, but it would go something to the effect of....
frozen flame, blah blah, serge born blah, blah, 5 horribly confusing cutscene's blah blah... and then you say "WOW, that's why they called him the assassin of time." I can't think of any other explanation that would reconcile the strong characters of both games.
Also, I like this because it's a play on words.... assassin of 'time', or otherwise translated as assassin of 'chrono.'
I say missing link, because it's blatantly obvious that Square ultimately did not put 100 percent effort in the sequel. The scope, and feel of CT is so much bigger than CC, with it's small map, and repetitive areas. You can try to explain this discrepancy with the plot device of Fate, sure... but it's still cheating us from the rest of the game. No surprises really though, we all had a hunch when we bought it and noticed two cd's... when final fantasy programming was taking up 3 and 4 discs a game. Even when you account for FMV, there's still so much game missing. Another disc or 2 would take us out of the ridiculously small island, to go see Guardia, etc. And heaven forbid they let us do any time traveling in a Chrono game...
So yeah, it's frutstrating, and we're all left guessing as to what was missing amidst ridiculous claims by the game designers that their wasn't much missing at all. My guess is that Serge's existence was some sort of contradiction to Chrono's existence, them both not being able to exist at same time, in same world, dimensions, etc. Maybe they're the same person, maybe not.. doesn't matter. I won't guess as to the specifics, because Square likes to make those as confusing as possible, but it would go something to the effect of....
frozen flame, blah blah, serge born blah, blah, 5 horribly confusing cutscene's blah blah... and then you say "WOW, that's why they called him the assassin of time." I can't think of any other explanation that would reconcile the strong characters of both games.
Also, I like this because it's a play on words.... assassin of 'time', or otherwise translated as assassin of 'chrono.'
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: chrono cross timeline
« on: July 23, 2007, 04:40:04 pm »
ooo, that makes sense, ty
(chrono cross plot not making sense) -1
you should work in squareenix P.R. department
(chrono cross plot not making sense) -1
you should work in squareenix P.R. department
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: chrono cross timeline
« on: July 23, 2007, 04:17:38 pm »
ok, that thread is very compelling for a much closer(and approximate) date to 12,000 B.C. because 1)it's clear belthasar is talking about 10,000 years from the past in the crono cross present, 2) the modifier "about" is used with relation to the time event, and 3) the awakening Lavos......
However, this is largely out of context. I went back and looked at the game script, and the first time this story is mentioned in the game it's related as thus...
Kid:
In the year 2400, during a
counter-time experiment, the
Flame goes out of control...
This causes the dimensions
to rip apart, resultin' in
the Time Crash.
Engulfed in an enormous
dimensional vortex,
Chronopolis was hurled ten
thousand years back in time.
Perhaps it was the awakenin'
Lavos who pulled the Frozen
Flame back through time to it.
Maybe so that Lavos, who saw
the possibility that some young
adventurers might destroy it,
could create a backup plan.
Given this, we're left with the options as 1)Kid was wrong, 2)Belthasar and ghostie were wrong or 3)Squaresoft missed the contradiction(*gasp
). Also, if you notice, it's stated that "perhaps" it was the awakenin' Lavos... Again, I don't see why this has to involve the CT ocean palace plot necessarily, because El Nido was kept in mystery from humans already, and Lavos could've awoken at any time he felt like it. Where would such a large phenomenon exist without notice... hmm, maybe the world's polar ice caps?? Regardless, given these doubts between the script, I tend to think choice 3(squaresoft) above, and it's left to us fans to decide which one is the error(1 or 2). It's clear that Belthasar's story gives the story more sense, and I want to believe that one, but I just want to point out that this does seem ambiguous, not the definite timeline that is suggested... and if it is indeed a 4,000 year difference, you can't throw the word "about" and have it merely appear to be a rough approximation. That "approximation" would be over 2 standard deviations off, statistically ridiculous.
However, this is largely out of context. I went back and looked at the game script, and the first time this story is mentioned in the game it's related as thus...
Kid:
In the year 2400, during a
counter-time experiment, the
Flame goes out of control...
This causes the dimensions
to rip apart, resultin' in
the Time Crash.
Engulfed in an enormous
dimensional vortex,
Chronopolis was hurled ten
thousand years back in time.
Perhaps it was the awakenin'
Lavos who pulled the Frozen
Flame back through time to it.
Maybe so that Lavos, who saw
the possibility that some young
adventurers might destroy it,
could create a backup plan.
Given this, we're left with the options as 1)Kid was wrong, 2)Belthasar and ghostie were wrong or 3)Squaresoft missed the contradiction(*gasp
). Also, if you notice, it's stated that "perhaps" it was the awakenin' Lavos... Again, I don't see why this has to involve the CT ocean palace plot necessarily, because El Nido was kept in mystery from humans already, and Lavos could've awoken at any time he felt like it. Where would such a large phenomenon exist without notice... hmm, maybe the world's polar ice caps?? Regardless, given these doubts between the script, I tend to think choice 3(squaresoft) above, and it's left to us fans to decide which one is the error(1 or 2). It's clear that Belthasar's story gives the story more sense, and I want to believe that one, but I just want to point out that this does seem ambiguous, not the definite timeline that is suggested... and if it is indeed a 4,000 year difference, you can't throw the word "about" and have it merely appear to be a rough approximation. That "approximation" would be over 2 standard deviations off, statistically ridiculous.
5
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / chrono cross timeline
« on: July 23, 2007, 02:47:28 pm »
I'm fairly new to this forum, but have been following/working on/trying to make some sense of the chrono cross plot as a logical extension from chrono trigger for some time now. The analysis, and the fact that other people have this same silly obsession is very reassuring and appreciated, but... I am left curious about one point in the history analysis.
Is there a reason that we're pretending that sending cronopolis back 10,000 years from 2400 A.D. puts it in 12,000 BC instead of 7600 B.C? Is this just bad math, or is there something in the game script I'm missing?? It would be neat, I understand to have that connection with the chrono trigger timeline... but a 4,000 year margin of error is a pretty big exaggeration.
I don't see that the events of chrono cross play out any different either way(with FATE not wanting to interfere, etc.), but still... why is this calculated the way it is?
Is there a reason that we're pretending that sending cronopolis back 10,000 years from 2400 A.D. puts it in 12,000 BC instead of 7600 B.C? Is this just bad math, or is there something in the game script I'm missing?? It would be neat, I understand to have that connection with the chrono trigger timeline... but a 4,000 year margin of error is a pretty big exaggeration.
I don't see that the events of chrono cross play out any different either way(with FATE not wanting to interfere, etc.), but still... why is this calculated the way it is?
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