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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Epigenetics and the appearence of Schala versus Kid (a possible solution)
« on: October 02, 2007, 06:25:09 pm »
ops... sorry, translation problems.
But you get the idea!
The point is: they beign clones doesn't mean they would merge any more than they not beign actual clones, or else monozygotic twins would too. IF they merged, they did so for another reason, like... they shared the same soul (like Sora and Roxas and Kairi and Naminé in Kindon Hearts 2).
In other words, you can't say some teory is less likely because that would not allow the merging, because even the clone theory doesn't by itself.
But you get the idea!
The point is: they beign clones doesn't mean they would merge any more than they not beign actual clones, or else monozygotic twins would too. IF they merged, they did so for another reason, like... they shared the same soul (like Sora and Roxas and Kairi and Naminé in Kindon Hearts 2).
In other words, you can't say some teory is less likely because that would not allow the merging, because even the clone theory doesn't by itself.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Epigenetics and the appearence of Schala versus Kid (a possible solution)
« on: October 01, 2007, 04:23:12 pm »*grabs head* Oh wow, I'm having trouble keeping up with everybody...
I suppose that, depending upon how you view the end of the game, either option is possible. If you hold that Kid and Schala unite at the end of the game, then there's only two real possibilities. One, Kid and Schala are the same person divided in two at some point prior to the game. And two, Kid is an exact genetic replica of Schala--not a daughter by any means of asexual reproduction--but a clone.
If Kid is produced by any form of asexual reproduction, then her merging with Schala makes no sense whatsoever. She'd be a complete individual, with an incredibly different genome. I mean, you can take Nikki and Fargo to fight at the Darkness Beyond Time, but they don't magically bind into one being just because they're father and son.
Now, if you hold that Kid and Schala don't merge, then just about any explanation works. Kid could be strictly a daughter, a clone, or hybrid-something-or-another. Doesn't really matter.
Pick your poison, I guess... *shrug*Rushingwind, you aren't sounding like a broken record, you just don't get what I meant. I meant the term used was this one to give the meaning of parthenogenesis, since it would mean using only Schala's DNA to create her daughter, meaning the "clone" part would be just symbolic. In other words, the clone there wasnt meaning to be actual clone, just to mean she has Schala's DNA in both sides unlike an usual daughter who would require a father's one, in other words, the "clone" was used there symbolically (the exact opposite of Kyronea's idea, if you still don't get what I mean).
My only problem with this is that it seems like quite a stretch. I've heard the term 'daughter' used spiritually/symbolically before, but never the word 'clone'.
I'm not saying that it's not possible, just that I've never heard it before.QuoteBy the way, the theory someone gave about she beign clone because she used Schala's DNA at the time but a daughter because not actually her usual DNA but had a little of Lavos, that was quickly revoked (is this the word) by Kid not having spikes... If you notice on the opening movie (before the "press start" screen), when she is facing the sea, we can notice two lighter marks near the elbow of each arm, just like the ones on the face. The ones of the face could be makeup for not beign as easilly recognizable when wearing other clothes and without it, but since I doubt she would need makeup there for wathever reason and they are too equal and symetric to be usual scars, they could be scars of where the spikes were removed.
O_o
No. Just...no.
Let's approach this another way, then. If Kid had Lavos' DNA, she would have presumably inherited some of his abilities as well. If you had Schala as a mother and Lavos as a father, you would be quite formidable in magical combat, and Kid is quite clearly not.
Epigenetic differences withstanding, it's a wonder Kid wouldn't have any of his (or Schala's) magical abilities.
Actually even she beign a clone she merging with Schala makes no sense whatsoever. Or else twins would merge too (homozigotical twins are natural clones).
But I don't get your point about she inheriting Schala's and Lavos' magical abilities... After all, just because someone's parents are good at mechanics or calculations doesn't mean the child will be either, even if both are. That without counting the fact that magical prowess may be inherited, but the ability to use is, like I said without even pointing yet, an ability. That means that she would need to train to get good, even if she has an innate aptitude for it. As Kid said herself when she first met Serge, she just came from the mainland, where almost no-one uses elements, so I see no reason she would be better at it than people who use all the time in El Nido, while Schala used it all the time, both for beign normal in her society and because it was her job, and Lavos... He was a magical killing machine...
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: How Does Serge Cause the Destruction of the Future?
« on: September 27, 2007, 07:23:10 pm »
A little thing that completelly destroys the Armaggedon-Branch theory that I noticed while playing CC from the starte again...
When I was in Termina for the first time and spoke with the fortuneteller she spoke more than the little text people usually claim she said... In this extra bit, she clearly says that Serge was directly responsible for the destruction of the future, with emphasys on "directly", since she actually used such word, and this is alone the whole destruction of the Armaggedon-Branch theory, since it is based on the fact of if beign caused by him indirectly (the exact opposite).
When I was in Termina for the first time and spoke with the fortuneteller she spoke more than the little text people usually claim she said... In this extra bit, she clearly says that Serge was directly responsible for the destruction of the future, with emphasys on "directly", since she actually used such word, and this is alone the whole destruction of the Armaggedon-Branch theory, since it is based on the fact of if beign caused by him indirectly (the exact opposite).
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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: Lavos and Guardian (boss) paradox?
« on: September 27, 2007, 07:06:54 pm »
Well, I see no Paradox on them meeting Lavos only after watching the video... I mean, the video was already recorded, if was a video of the future. If it was a paradox, so would be they getting to the destroyed future at all.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Epigenetics and the appearence of Schala versus Kid (a possible solution)
« on: September 27, 2007, 06:52:01 pm »
Rushingwind, you aren't sounding like a broken record, you just don't get what I meant. I meant the term used was this one to give the meaning of parthenogenesis, since it would mean using only Schala's DNA to create her daughter, meaning the "clone" part would be just symbolic. In other words, the clone there wasnt meaning to be actual clone, just to mean she has Schala's DNA in both sides unlike an usual daughter who would require a father's one, in other words, the "clone" was used there symbolically (the exact opposite of Kyronea's idea, if you still don't get what I mean).
By the way, the theory someone gave about she beign clone because she used Schala's DNA at the time but a daughter because not actually her usual DNA but had a little of Lavos, that was quickly revoked (is this the word) by Kid not having spikes... If you notice on the opening movie (before the "press start" screen), when she is facing the sea, we can notice two lighter marks near the elbow of each arm, just like the ones on the face. The ones of the face could be makeup for not beign as easilly recognizable when wearing other clothes and without it, but since I doubt she would need makeup there for wathever reason and they are too equal and symetric to be usual scars, they could be scars of where the spikes were removed.
By the way, the theory someone gave about she beign clone because she used Schala's DNA at the time but a daughter because not actually her usual DNA but had a little of Lavos, that was quickly revoked (is this the word) by Kid not having spikes... If you notice on the opening movie (before the "press start" screen), when she is facing the sea, we can notice two lighter marks near the elbow of each arm, just like the ones on the face. The ones of the face could be makeup for not beign as easilly recognizable when wearing other clothes and without it, but since I doubt she would need makeup there for wathever reason and they are too equal and symetric to be usual scars, they could be scars of where the spikes were removed.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Epigenetics and the appearence of Schala versus Kid (a possible solution)
« on: September 17, 2007, 12:47:41 am »
Yep, that's what I was meaning. Parthenogenesis.
What I meant was that, just as Kebrel said, the word daughter-clone was misused, but not in a bad-translation thing, but to take another sense (hence, the one of Kid was a daughter that took schala's DNA of both sides).
You have a point in her not usually beign able to do this even in this sense, but keep in mind that the male contribution to reproduction in humans - the spermatozoid - is almost completelly thrown away but for the DNA. So she would not need to a god-like spell to generate a child, only take the DNA of one of her ovums and join with the one of the other inside either of them, and them let it keep going like a usually fertilized one (I'm serious, there were once studies to make this in labs in real life).
...It was a dog with gene mutation? Really? I always thought it was actually a kitty that was "kittynapped" to be raised by the dog so the owner could pretend it was actually son of the dog...
What I meant was that, just as Kebrel said, the word daughter-clone was misused, but not in a bad-translation thing, but to take another sense (hence, the one of Kid was a daughter that took schala's DNA of both sides).
You have a point in her not usually beign able to do this even in this sense, but keep in mind that the male contribution to reproduction in humans - the spermatozoid - is almost completelly thrown away but for the DNA. So she would not need to a god-like spell to generate a child, only take the DNA of one of her ovums and join with the one of the other inside either of them, and them let it keep going like a usually fertilized one (I'm serious, there were once studies to make this in labs in real life).
...It was a dog with gene mutation? Really? I always thought it was actually a kitty that was "kittynapped" to be raised by the dog so the owner could pretend it was actually son of the dog...
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Epigenetics and the appearence of Schala versus Kid (a possible solution)
« on: September 12, 2007, 05:39:15 pm »
Well, I bet I must be wrong, but this daughter/clone could not mean partenogenesis? I mean, use her DNA as source for Kid's, like a clone, but also merging two half-cells (don't know how to say in english) to make Kid's actual DNA.
A person's DNA has two lines in each cromossome, each line with a different group of genes, and the ones that are shown in the end are the dominant ones, while the recessive ones don't and in case of co-dominants they end having a third effect than if it was a pair of the same one... So Kid could have Schala's DNA as a base, without some of the dominant genes, making the recessive ones of such dominants be the ones that actually are in Kid.
Like, someone with green eyes could have two green eyes genes or a green and a blue eyes gene, in the second case making it half possible that the child could have blue eyes if the other partner had blue eyes (blue eyes only show up in a blue/blue combination, since they are the more recessive ones of eye color) or 1/4 if the other partner had green eyes also with green and blue genes. It's a biology thing, and I'm not good at explaining (specially outside my own language), but it's a pretty basic thing of genetics...
A person's DNA has two lines in each cromossome, each line with a different group of genes, and the ones that are shown in the end are the dominant ones, while the recessive ones don't and in case of co-dominants they end having a third effect than if it was a pair of the same one... So Kid could have Schala's DNA as a base, without some of the dominant genes, making the recessive ones of such dominants be the ones that actually are in Kid.
Like, someone with green eyes could have two green eyes genes or a green and a blue eyes gene, in the second case making it half possible that the child could have blue eyes if the other partner had blue eyes (blue eyes only show up in a blue/blue combination, since they are the more recessive ones of eye color) or 1/4 if the other partner had green eyes also with green and blue genes. It's a biology thing, and I'm not good at explaining (specially outside my own language), but it's a pretty basic thing of genetics...
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Ozzie, Flea, and Slash
« on: September 12, 2007, 05:15:27 pm »
...Why just because some Mystics can transform whe must assume all mystics can transform? Many people can contort, but not all people. Many people can ride a bike, but not all people. Many people can eat sugar without having health problems due to diabetes, but not all people can.
Just because some Mystics can transform, we can't assume all can. Either it is an ability that needs training, a common one they were unable to learn or something related to health, by what we have until now, unless we are told otherwise we can only assume that some can and some can't.
...Am I the only one that thinks the reason Flea looks like a girl is because he is a travestite? What, there can't be gay videogame characters?
Just because some Mystics can transform, we can't assume all can. Either it is an ability that needs training, a common one they were unable to learn or something related to health, by what we have until now, unless we are told otherwise we can only assume that some can and some can't.
...Am I the only one that thinks the reason Flea looks like a girl is because he is a travestite? What, there can't be gay videogame characters?
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: How Does Serge Cause the Destruction of the Future?
« on: September 12, 2007, 04:58:41 pm »
We don't know if it had the same results in the Another World, because we can't enter the Sea of Eden there until after the Dead Sea become sea on the Home World - meaning Serge already changed his role in the future.
I don't get your point as to "only Schala and Lavos can merge". Both Lynx and Serge are exposed to the Frozen Flame, so it could have made them able to merge with Lavos latter.
You need to ask yourself also why can Schala and Lavos merge, after all. In my theory the reason is that Serge and Lynx touched the Frozen Flame. If the merging of Schala and Lavos was caused by Lavos itself, I see no reason why the Frozen Flame, a piece of Lavos, could not make others able to merge with him too.
I don't get your point as to "only Schala and Lavos can merge". Both Lynx and Serge are exposed to the Frozen Flame, so it could have made them able to merge with Lavos latter.
You need to ask yourself also why can Schala and Lavos merge, after all. In my theory the reason is that Serge and Lynx touched the Frozen Flame. If the merging of Schala and Lavos was caused by Lavos itself, I see no reason why the Frozen Flame, a piece of Lavos, could not make others able to merge with him too.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Crono Foreshadowing
« on: September 10, 2007, 05:22:24 pm »
About why Death Peak, remember that the mountain didin't exist at ay other time, and that the Ocean Palace was a floating one... Do you get my idea?
Then I'll translate: the Time Egg moved them in time, but not in space. That place in the Death Peak was probably the exactly same place that the room of the castle was at that time.
As to why he created the Chrono Trigger... It was an incomplete one. With a complete one, he probably would be able to go back to Zeal and avoid the awakening of Lavos (by pretending to be a prophet like Magus did, maybe?).
Then I'll translate: the Time Egg moved them in time, but not in space. That place in the Death Peak was probably the exactly same place that the room of the castle was at that time.
As to why he created the Chrono Trigger... It was an incomplete one. With a complete one, he probably would be able to go back to Zeal and avoid the awakening of Lavos (by pretending to be a prophet like Magus did, maybe?).
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: How Does Serge Cause the Destruction of the Future?
« on: September 10, 2007, 05:08:13 pm »And that doesn't work out because the moment he went to Another World, it would have been doomed to be destroyed if he was going to live forever and one day turn into Lavos.
No, it would not. It only would if Serge lived there long enough to become Lavos, and he probably would have only went home if not by Lynx switching bodies with him. Body that FATE destroyed after unlocking the Prometeus Lock, transforming in that black machine thing.
The only possible problem would be that the future was still destroyed after Serge was in Lynx's body, but that can be anwered by: Lynx could also become a Lavos, but I doubt FATE would keep Lynx's body too if it was of no use anymore, just like it didn't keep Serge's, so probably Lynx would also die latter in the future of Another World, so neither would be able to create Lavos.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: How Does Serge Cause the Destruction of the Future?
« on: September 09, 2007, 11:21:49 pm »
Actually, I developped a theory of my own (it was thanks to this theory I found out about this site):
(By the way, sorry if you don't understand what I say sometimes, it's because english is not my native language)
Serge is Lavos.
Yeah, I know it doesn't make much sense right now, but keep reading...
Well, somewhere (I can't recall exactly where right now) you are said that whoever touches the Frozen Flame either burst into flames himself or becomes something different.
We know Wasuki became Lynx because he was affected by the Frozen Flame when it was curing Serge, and then FATE took advantage of it, turning him into it's puppet and, after some time, into Lynx.
But, as far as we can see, the only change in Serge was he being cured, and turning him into the Arbiter.
There are many places where Serge is mentioned to "merge" with the Time Destroyer.
So here is where the teory takes place:
Not beign killed by Lynx, Serge would grow, and be more and more affected by the Frozen Flame. Sometime, he would either live A LOT or enter a freakingly long sleep, until the Day of Lavos. By that time, he would either be turned in a Lavos Spawn strong enough to destroy the world like the first Lavos was supposed to have, or merge with the dead body of Lavos (unwillingly, probably), bringing it back to life. Either way, the Chrono Trigger team would not expect a second Lavos, so they would not the there to fight him, and he would destroy the world without interferences.
This is why Serge was the one that HAD to save Schala, while anyone else could be the one Belthasar sent. By choosing to try to free Schala Serge avoided bringing lavos back, because: 1- He would die as once happenes, and Lavos would not be able to merge with him, or 2- He would use the Chrono Cross, and the music would ressonate and separate Schala and Lavos AND Serge and the Frozen Frame's power.
If the Chrono Cross is not used, nothing changes, and Serge becomes Lavos in Home world's future.
...A little too farfetched (is that the word?)?
(By the way, sorry if you don't understand what I say sometimes, it's because english is not my native language)
Serge is Lavos.
Yeah, I know it doesn't make much sense right now, but keep reading...
Well, somewhere (I can't recall exactly where right now) you are said that whoever touches the Frozen Flame either burst into flames himself or becomes something different.
We know Wasuki became Lynx because he was affected by the Frozen Flame when it was curing Serge, and then FATE took advantage of it, turning him into it's puppet and, after some time, into Lynx.
But, as far as we can see, the only change in Serge was he being cured, and turning him into the Arbiter.
There are many places where Serge is mentioned to "merge" with the Time Destroyer.
So here is where the teory takes place:
Not beign killed by Lynx, Serge would grow, and be more and more affected by the Frozen Flame. Sometime, he would either live A LOT or enter a freakingly long sleep, until the Day of Lavos. By that time, he would either be turned in a Lavos Spawn strong enough to destroy the world like the first Lavos was supposed to have, or merge with the dead body of Lavos (unwillingly, probably), bringing it back to life. Either way, the Chrono Trigger team would not expect a second Lavos, so they would not the there to fight him, and he would destroy the world without interferences.
This is why Serge was the one that HAD to save Schala, while anyone else could be the one Belthasar sent. By choosing to try to free Schala Serge avoided bringing lavos back, because: 1- He would die as once happenes, and Lavos would not be able to merge with him, or 2- He would use the Chrono Cross, and the music would ressonate and separate Schala and Lavos AND Serge and the Frozen Frame's power.
If the Chrono Cross is not used, nothing changes, and Serge becomes Lavos in Home world's future.
...A little too farfetched (is that the word?)?
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