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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Conservation of Time Theorum... reliable?
« on: January 24, 2006, 04:13:33 pm »
Even if what Gaspar says is true in game, it is still not a very good way of limiting party members. First of all, all of your party members leave the end of time at the end of the game, proving that it is possible for a group of 7 to leave the end of time. Secondly, since all of the gates go to the end of time, it doesn't matter if more than three people enter a gate, since they would be going to the End of Time anyway. So it is possible for a group of 7 to enter and leave the end of time, and, if this wasn't a game, Crono could have brought his full team wherever he wanted.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Did Belthasar Plan Project Kid?
« on: September 01, 2005, 05:14:10 pm »
Did I say anywhere that I discounted the idea that Belthasar planned everything? No. I said several times that I understand that that is the basic idea behind the story. However, I happen to think that it is a stupid idea. Please, before you post again, take the time to understand what I am saying here. I am not arguing with you about what actually happened in the game, such as if we were arguing whether or not Schala merges with Kid at the end (an event that is up for debate), or whether or not Marle disappears (an event that is not up for debate). What I am trying to say is that I think the story itself is unrealistic. I'm not saying there is some other explanation for how everything occured.
In case you still don't understand, let me give you an example. In Star Wars Episode I, it is revealed that C3P0 is built by Anakin Skywalker. Some people (not including me) believe that this was a dumb idea. This doesn't mean that they actually think he was built by someone else. All it means is that they don't like the idea, in that case because it was cheesey and done as fan service. Me, I don't like the idea that Belthasar planned everything in the game because I find it unrealistic. I still, however, accept that it is what happened.
In case you still don't understand, let me give you an example. In Star Wars Episode I, it is revealed that C3P0 is built by Anakin Skywalker. Some people (not including me) believe that this was a dumb idea. This doesn't mean that they actually think he was built by someone else. All it means is that they don't like the idea, in that case because it was cheesey and done as fan service. Me, I don't like the idea that Belthasar planned everything in the game because I find it unrealistic. I still, however, accept that it is what happened.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Did Belthasar Plan Project Kid?
« on: September 01, 2005, 04:42:21 pm »
Keep in mind that Belthasar didn't actually do anything except cause the Time Crash to happen and help Serge out twice, but he knew that his actions would lead to Schala being freed from the Time Devourer. You don't find that a little bit unrealistic (even in a world with aliens and time travel?).
Yes, I know that in the game that Belthasar planned everything. I just happen to think that it was a stupid move on the story writer's part.
I think Belthasar is smart enough to know that guessing and checking in the context of changing time is a bad idea. He could have ended up in a time similar to the original 2300 where he had no access to his supercomputer.
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But its explicit in the game that Belthasar DID plan out the events, arguing otherwise is absurd.
Yes, I know that in the game that Belthasar planned everything. I just happen to think that it was a stupid move on the story writer's part.
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Moreover, he might not even have needed to predict some of the events. With his Neo-Epoch, he could just have change time, go to the future to see what are the consequences, then go back to the past and change some details, etc.
I think Belthasar is smart enough to know that guessing and checking in the context of changing time is a bad idea. He could have ended up in a time similar to the original 2300 where he had no access to his supercomputer.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Did Belthasar Plan Project Kid?
« on: September 01, 2005, 03:13:22 pm »
Can you please explain what the parts of this outline were? It would have to end with Serge getting the Chrono Cross in order to free Schala. In order to get the Crono Cross, he would have to get the Dragon Tear in both dimensions. In order to do that, he would have to get pulled over to the other dimension, which required the Time Crash, Dinopolis being pulled back to counteract the Time Crash, the panther bite, Schala helping guiding Wazuki to Chronopolis, FATE creating Lynx to kill Serge so he could jump dimenstions, Schala creating Kid to save Serge and pull him to another World, ...Already he's toyed with the emotions of Schala, Lavos, the Planet, Fate... How can he have the power to predict all that?
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Did Belthasar Plan Project Kid?
« on: September 01, 2005, 02:39:29 pm »
I agree with him. Note that he isn't saying that he disagrees with the claim that Belthasar planned everything out, he says
It's really pretty much impossible to have planned everything out in this way, manipulating all those god-like entities (The Planet, Fate, Time Devourer, The Dragon Gods). It requires a hefty amount of suspension of disbelief, and really, I think it was just a dumb plot twist.
Edit: By the way, Lord J Esq, what you posted was very interesting and informative. I'm curious to know what you think on the subject of whether or not Chrono Cross has good character development. I'd say by that by the very nature of the fact that it has so many characters, it can't have good development, because as the player can have different characters for every situation, each character must react in the same way to a situation in order to make sure that the story goes on properly. That automatically takes away the idea of development through a character's reaction to dramatic conflict (I guess this can probably be seen in most RPGs!). Unless the programmers gave a side quest for each character, we have very little chance of seeing the characters change. So all that's really left is exposition, which we do get for most characters. Of course, there are a few characters who are more important to the story, and could theoretically get all three aspects of development, but I really never saw that happen to its full potential.
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On the contraire, I'm saying that he supposedly did - which is why I call BS. All accounted for, it's plain impossible for him to have prepared and planned out ten millenia worth of history, and a bevy of other impossiblities that's simply beyond the reach of a being that's not even a deity. Hell, he makes Lavos, Earth, FATE and the Dragon Gods seem like frightened pussy cats before his half-assed uber-omniscience.
It's really pretty much impossible to have planned everything out in this way, manipulating all those god-like entities (The Planet, Fate, Time Devourer, The Dragon Gods). It requires a hefty amount of suspension of disbelief, and really, I think it was just a dumb plot twist.
Edit: By the way, Lord J Esq, what you posted was very interesting and informative. I'm curious to know what you think on the subject of whether or not Chrono Cross has good character development. I'd say by that by the very nature of the fact that it has so many characters, it can't have good development, because as the player can have different characters for every situation, each character must react in the same way to a situation in order to make sure that the story goes on properly. That automatically takes away the idea of development through a character's reaction to dramatic conflict (I guess this can probably be seen in most RPGs!). Unless the programmers gave a side quest for each character, we have very little chance of seeing the characters change. So all that's really left is exposition, which we do get for most characters. Of course, there are a few characters who are more important to the story, and could theoretically get all three aspects of development, but I really never saw that happen to its full potential.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Why would Serge and Kid get married?
« on: August 01, 2005, 10:37:28 pm »
I thought Schala made it so that they would all lose their memories of the adventure?
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / What are "burns"?
« on: January 29, 2005, 04:55:10 pm »
I've never figured out what burns do to you in Chrono Cross. Does anybody know?
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History, Locations, and Artifacts / What exactly is the Chrono Cross?
« on: January 29, 2005, 04:50:44 pm »
V_Translanka, I think you're on to something with what you said about the three dragons in each world. Perhaps because each dimension only has half of the dragons, the dragon tears have only half the power, and both of them need to be combined to gain the full power, which is the Chrono Cross? And because the Chrono Cross is made from artifacts of different dimensions, it has the power to heal split dimensions, which a fully powered dragon tear would not?
Thanks for all the input.
Thanks for all the input.
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History, Locations, and Artifacts / What exactly is the Chrono Cross?
« on: January 28, 2005, 06:49:34 pm »
This is the biggest thing that I don't get about Belthasar's plan and the game in general. From what I can tell, Belthasar's plan seems to have been to go have a Schala clone go back in time and save the Arbiter to the Frozen Flame (did Belthasar intend to use Serge for this role? Did he send the panther demon after him?) , causing a dimension split, which would allow the arbiter to cross dimensions and obtain the Dragon Tear from both dimensions to combine them into the Chrono Cross, which would free Schala from TimeDevourer. But how could Belthasar possibly know what the Chrono Cross was and how he could bring it into existence? Oh yeah, and what is the Dragon Tear? How is it that the two alternate versions of it could create the Chrono Cross?
Sorry if there is another thread about this, I couldn't find one.
Sorry if there is another thread about this, I couldn't find one.
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Other Topics and the Prerelease / Screen Grab of Luccas Letter to kid.
« on: January 25, 2005, 03:10:05 pm »
I'm the one who took the pictures, thanks for uploading them for me. The shadow is really something you have to see yourself. I've loaded that part over and over and I've watched it appear when you talk to Luccia. What I don't know is if it appears when you're not talking about the letter.
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