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1
Fan Art / Re: AD 1005 Character Art
« on: October 17, 2009, 01:24:55 am »
I just thought I would mention I have updated this topic's first post.
2
Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Re: The Passion of the Lavos: Reconsidering the Frozen Flame
« on: October 12, 2009, 03:57:30 pm »
Maybe they are, they just lack similar intelligence. Maybe that is where the mystics came from, evolutionary dead-ends. Humans very likely represented the most potential. From a thematic aspect this would make more sense than a scientific one.
3
Fan Art / Re: AD 1005 Character Art
« on: October 12, 2009, 02:22:02 am »
He is still wearing the headband...its on his scabbard. And who says he has to be wearing on his head to have his hair stand up? Besides, I took the Bandana off as soon as I got the Speed Belt.
4
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: You know you've been playing too much with Chrono Trigger When..........
« on: October 11, 2009, 11:50:59 pm »
When you name your pet hedgehog Lavos (nine years ago).
5
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Cross Recollections
« on: October 11, 2009, 04:13:22 pm »
I got a ride to go pick it up the day it came out from the mall which was about eight miles away and in the bad part of town. When were got to Funcoland, my ride asked, "Do you have a way to get home?" I had assumed I would be getting one from her. So I bought the game and walked home...through the PJ's. At night.
Anyhow, I played the hell out of it. I actually nearly lost me job because when it was time to go to work I was in a place with no available save point so I just kept playing. I told my boss I got stopped by the cops when I was walking to work.
Though I should state that my -very- first experience with Chrono Cross is when I downloaded the opening video from the internet months before it came out in the US. That opening video was pretty damn cool...and still is today.
Anyhow, I played the hell out of it. I actually nearly lost me job because when it was time to go to work I was in a place with no available save point so I just kept playing. I told my boss I got stopped by the cops when I was walking to work.
Though I should state that my -very- first experience with Chrono Cross is when I downloaded the opening video from the internet months before it came out in the US. That opening video was pretty damn cool...and still is today.
6
Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / My Idea for a CT sequel (input wanted)
« on: October 11, 2009, 07:28:48 am »
Alright, tell me what you think. I have intentionally not thought of everything, but its a good start. I wish for it to be a building block for further discussion.
Untitled Chrono Trigger Sequel:
PLOT DEVICE: The Chrono Divider – Lost within the Dimensional Vortex (Chrono Trigger DS) the Chrono Divider is a device which may effectively “isolate” a period of time between two points along its axis. An isolated period of time still exists but cannot be perceived (or remembered) by anyone save for those manipulating the Divider. Frightfully in addition to being able to capture time, the Chrono Divider can replicate an isolated organism within time on a small scale. These organisms, however, lack any of the perception of the organism at the time of their duplication, but are still perfect physical copies.
The Chrono Divider was constructed by the Sage Gaspar in Zeal. In his effort to break the bonds of time he accidentally created this device which could isolate time. Gaspar, realizing the dreadful possibilities of the Chrono Divider, hid the item until such a time that he was able to use a prototype Time Egg to hurl it and all of his research and notes into the Dimensional Vortex so that they would be doomed to deletion.
Time isolated by the Chrono Divider is written to a compressed time line parallel to the time line where the Chrono Divider actually dwells. This compressed time line only exists as a composite of whichever time lines that was isolated within it. Time does not pass normally here…any living beings dwelling here simply will not age as there is no part of their time line to allow them to do so. The time line within the Divider is largely AD 1,000 with numerous ruins of AD 12,000 incorporated into it.
Few beings inhabit the compressed time line. An inexplicable collection of Nu seems to be the sole indigenous inhabitants. People who are destined to lose their lives as a result of actions taken within an isolated time line are reprieved of this “destiny” when the time line is separated. For example, if you set the first point of time to isolate and then fire a bullet at a person just as you set the second point of time to isolate the time line, the person about to die will be shifted into the compressed time line as their native time line has already defined them as “non-existent.”
CHARACTER: Shades – These are the name for organisms replicated by the Chrono Divider. They maintain the memories of the original organism from which they were derived but they lack that organism’s perception. They know things, they just do not relate to the things they know. Without emotions as a result, they grow mad from questioning their existence and typically destroy themselves. When a Shade encounters the organism of its origin it is compelled to destroy it. However, it is possible for the Shade to rejoin its original organism making it a stronger life form.
LOCATION: The Dimensional Vortex – The Dimensional Vortex is mysterious dimension where fragmented time lines cross and become merged. An endless world, the Dimensional Vortex is unfathomably large and home to an unknown amount of entities. Within it are aspects from any number of times or places. Unlike the End of Time which is the point of least temporal resistance, the Dimensional Vortex has the most—it is where time goes to decompose.
CHARACTER: Research Group 3A – Originally staffed in the Temporal Research Lab within Chronopolis in AD 2400, they were accidentally phased into the Dimensional Vortex during the Counter-Time Experiment. There they found the Chrono Divider, and after identifying some of its properties, set about studying it. Located within their database are records of the campaign to fight Lavos as well as Chrono and his companion’s role. Detailed information about the entire AD time line has also been recorded. Lastly, though only a portion of the separated Chronopolis, the Temporal Research Lab maintains a precise chronicle of the construction and purpose of Chronopolis as well as a sufficiently equipped arsenal of robot sentinels.
CHARACTER: Sir Dalton – Having been cast into the Dimensional Vortex by falling into his own Golem Summoning Gate, Dalton found himself lost in an endless labyrinth of broken time. Within the Dimensional Vortex Dalton stumbled upon Research Group 3A where he proceeded to muscle his way into control of them. There he discovered the presence of the Chrono Divider and remembered it from when Gaspar claimed it to be a failure. Finding the Chrono Divider fully operational and with all of Gaspar’s research, Dalton began scheming.
EVENT: Escape from the Dimensional Vortex – While under the direction of Dalton, Research Group 3A probed the expanse of the Dimensional Vortex for some sign of an exit. What they found was that places in time with great temporal activity primarily contribute to the contents of the Dimensional Vortex as they are the crossroads where timelines greatly diverge. Dalton encountered Crono, Marle, and Lucca while investigating possible exits but was driven off. This solidified his plans to seek revenge and place himself as new the king of the planet. Dalton used a Golem Gate to transfer back to the Temporal Research Laboratory where he initiated his final escape plan leaving behind Shades of Crono, Marle, and Lucca to destroy them. With a small army of robot sentinels Dalton took leave of his temporal prison and into AD 1,000.
EVENT: The Fall of Guardia – Dalton, armed with technology far in advance of the time period he now stood within, went about fulfilling his ambition. Dalton knew that so long as he did not inflict severe damage to the time line, he could remain impugn to the meddling of time traveling do-gooders. With his army of robots, Dalton activated the Chrono Divider and set about conquering the humble nation of Porre. When the fighting had ended, Dalton installed himself as supreme leader and immediately reformed its government. When he was satisfied, Dalton deactivated the Chrono Divider thus removing his bloody rise to power from the perception of all but him and Research Group 3A. To the rest of the world Porre became a military power seemingly overnight. Dalton created a new identity for himself as President Zeal. He then began a campaign to build a standing army to pursue a goal of manifest destiny. And all this time none could remember the bloodshed of his rise to power.
The battle against Guardia took place in AD 1005 and was by all accounts one-sided. Using the Chrono Divider, Dalton continually redrew the battle field with his opponents incapable of opposing him. Dalton burned Truce Village to the ground and due to the Chrono Divider; there were none to remember it.
The King of Guardia petitioned Crono, now heir to the throne and Lord Protector of the Realm, to find a way to defeat Porre. They mounted the Epoch with a plan to subvert Dalton’s will from the year AD 600…but all did not go well for them. With Guardia Castle surrounded by Porre forces, Dalton observed as the Epoch launched into the air. Before it gated to another time line he activated the Chrono Divider and then deactivated it once the gate had been completed. The Epoch could not take them back in time, as the era they had left from was an era disconnected from any other point in time. Crono and Marle aboard the Epoch became prisoners of an isolated instance within time remembered only by he who had sent them.
In the final hours of the siege of Guardia castle Dalton fought against a knight named Rand wielding the Masamune (Grandleon). Both being relics from Zeal, there was an intense reaction and Dalton, Rand, and the Masamune were subjected to the replication effect of the Chrono Divider simultaneously. Dalton was too slow to react after this and Rand drove the Masamune through him ending his life. The first event Shade-Dalton beheld was the death of his own self. Shade-Dalton struck down Rand leaving his Shade to its own devices. Shade-Dalton, unaware of his own purpose, left the battlefield to parts unknown.
EVENT: The Masamune’s Fate – Porre had defeated Guardia though it had lost its leader, President Zeal, aka, Dalton. Not wanting to drive the people of Guardia into absolute ruin a summit was held between King Guardia and the newly appointed leader of Porre, Gast.
The two nations sign a treaty of no aggression and Guardia officially became a country within the Nation of Porre. The symbols of this agreement were the twin Masamune blades. The original blade returned to its keeping within the Guardia treasury, the Shade Masamune was taken back to Porre.
CHARACTER: Shade-Dalton – The clone of Dalton, having seen its own death, perceived life differently than its original had done. Feeling great regret over its memories and its first ever action of taking a life, it committed itself to the benefit of all living creatures. Without the perspective of its original, Shade-Dalton could not justify the meaning of its memories.
CHARACTER: Shade-Rand – Left a directionless warrior amidst a bloody conflict, Shade-Rand quickly became a killing machine only interested in validating its memories of training for battle. Killing friend and foe alike it carved out a reputation of terror the night of its birth. After sustaining enough injuries while fighting, Shade-Rand escaped leaving behind only rumors.
CHARACTER: Gast – The new President of the Nation of Porre, Gast is a far cry less despotic than the nation’s founder, Zeal. As he is truly ignorant of the machinations of his country’s founding, he governs fairly and passionately.
CHARACTER: The Coordinators - Seeking to return to their own time, the Coordinators realized that they had the potential to construct a machine that could control time. Lacking certain technology, however, progress would be slow.
CHARACTER: Lucca – Not being a direct target of the Porre invasion, Lucca’s orphanage went unmolested during the conflict. Knowing that Crono and Marle had intended to travel back in time to prevent the war, but incapable of knowing about their isolated time line, feared they had met with disaster in another era. Lucca lent her skills to Porre in hopes she would be able to devise a method to create a Time Egg to find Crono and Marle. Events carried out beyond this are as described in Chrono Cross.
LOCATION: AD 1025 – The Nation of Porre encompasses the majority of civilization. Regardless of having left any prior authority to all nations absorbed into Porre, absolute authority is still held by President Gast. Civilization is at its height, the bright future of the planet known to the Coordinators seems to be coming into effect nicely.
This is, however, until an expedition team from El Nido returned with an object most desired by the Coordinators, the Frozen Flame. The original power source for Chronopolis, it gave the Coordinators the power they needed to complete their own version of Chronopolis.
CHARACTER: The Protagonist – As Truce Village burned all around him in AD 1005 this young boy swore that no power on heaven or earth could deter him from remembering. He watched as Porre’s robot soldiers razed the buildings and set fire to the fields. His parents died in the attack and he was left standing alone, watching as the horrors unfolded.
The day after the attack he became an unknown child. There were none who remembered the burning of Truce Village, in fact, few could remember it had been there at all. Alone and afraid, he was found by Lucca and taken in.
One night, years later, the boy watched as Lucca worked on an egg-shaped object. As Lucca slept, exhausted from her work, he crept in and picked the item up. There was a reaction and in an instant the boy remembered it all! He saw the terror and felt the heat of the flames! He alone amongst all others had surpassed the perception dampening powers of the Chrono Divider! He took the Time Egg and fled into the night. He was forever changed, a child living within a varied state of time than all others.
The Premise – The Protagonist will come to learn that current reality is one of a greatly altered perception. Large portions of time have been isolated to some unknown end. These isolated points in time have all merged together to form a parallel compressed time line full of refugees from their own eras. Armed with his Time Egg, the Protagonist can freely go back and forth between the true time line and the compressed time line restoring the damage inflicted by the Chrono Divider.
The Frozen Flame has guided the Coordinators to places in time to where the Chrono Dividers powers may serve its purposes best. As to what the ultimate goal is, I am still unsure. Being veterans of the Dimensional Vortex, the Coordinators have been able to use their Chronopolis to travel in time to AD 2300, AD 1000, and AD 12000 using the crossroads of timelines which were once the exits from the Dimensional Vortex. From these staging grounds they alter events towards a nefarious end.
The truth of the future is hidden away behind false perception. Only when the Protagonist reconciles the timelines will the future be known.
NOTES:
The Masamune – When the Masamune was duplicated, its Shade-Masamune counterpart also contains Shade-Masa and Shade-Mune. They are as all Shades, possessing memory but not purpose. They recall their history but can only find cause for anger. It is this anger which drives them to become a cursed sword as seen in Chrono Cross.
Fixed Positions in Time – Even with the incredible power of the Time Egg one cannot simply pick a point in history and go there. The events in Chrono Trigger were relevant to the year AD 1000. In relative time, each era visited by Crono has similar had 25 years of time pass, as it is now AD 1025. Lavos cannot be stopped from being destroyed, nor can the Time Devourer.
Well, that is what I have written, if anyone wants to add anything or ask questions, please do.
Untitled Chrono Trigger Sequel:
PLOT DEVICE: The Chrono Divider – Lost within the Dimensional Vortex (Chrono Trigger DS) the Chrono Divider is a device which may effectively “isolate” a period of time between two points along its axis. An isolated period of time still exists but cannot be perceived (or remembered) by anyone save for those manipulating the Divider. Frightfully in addition to being able to capture time, the Chrono Divider can replicate an isolated organism within time on a small scale. These organisms, however, lack any of the perception of the organism at the time of their duplication, but are still perfect physical copies.
The Chrono Divider was constructed by the Sage Gaspar in Zeal. In his effort to break the bonds of time he accidentally created this device which could isolate time. Gaspar, realizing the dreadful possibilities of the Chrono Divider, hid the item until such a time that he was able to use a prototype Time Egg to hurl it and all of his research and notes into the Dimensional Vortex so that they would be doomed to deletion.
Time isolated by the Chrono Divider is written to a compressed time line parallel to the time line where the Chrono Divider actually dwells. This compressed time line only exists as a composite of whichever time lines that was isolated within it. Time does not pass normally here…any living beings dwelling here simply will not age as there is no part of their time line to allow them to do so. The time line within the Divider is largely AD 1,000 with numerous ruins of AD 12,000 incorporated into it.
Few beings inhabit the compressed time line. An inexplicable collection of Nu seems to be the sole indigenous inhabitants. People who are destined to lose their lives as a result of actions taken within an isolated time line are reprieved of this “destiny” when the time line is separated. For example, if you set the first point of time to isolate and then fire a bullet at a person just as you set the second point of time to isolate the time line, the person about to die will be shifted into the compressed time line as their native time line has already defined them as “non-existent.”
CHARACTER: Shades – These are the name for organisms replicated by the Chrono Divider. They maintain the memories of the original organism from which they were derived but they lack that organism’s perception. They know things, they just do not relate to the things they know. Without emotions as a result, they grow mad from questioning their existence and typically destroy themselves. When a Shade encounters the organism of its origin it is compelled to destroy it. However, it is possible for the Shade to rejoin its original organism making it a stronger life form.
LOCATION: The Dimensional Vortex – The Dimensional Vortex is mysterious dimension where fragmented time lines cross and become merged. An endless world, the Dimensional Vortex is unfathomably large and home to an unknown amount of entities. Within it are aspects from any number of times or places. Unlike the End of Time which is the point of least temporal resistance, the Dimensional Vortex has the most—it is where time goes to decompose.
CHARACTER: Research Group 3A – Originally staffed in the Temporal Research Lab within Chronopolis in AD 2400, they were accidentally phased into the Dimensional Vortex during the Counter-Time Experiment. There they found the Chrono Divider, and after identifying some of its properties, set about studying it. Located within their database are records of the campaign to fight Lavos as well as Chrono and his companion’s role. Detailed information about the entire AD time line has also been recorded. Lastly, though only a portion of the separated Chronopolis, the Temporal Research Lab maintains a precise chronicle of the construction and purpose of Chronopolis as well as a sufficiently equipped arsenal of robot sentinels.
CHARACTER: Sir Dalton – Having been cast into the Dimensional Vortex by falling into his own Golem Summoning Gate, Dalton found himself lost in an endless labyrinth of broken time. Within the Dimensional Vortex Dalton stumbled upon Research Group 3A where he proceeded to muscle his way into control of them. There he discovered the presence of the Chrono Divider and remembered it from when Gaspar claimed it to be a failure. Finding the Chrono Divider fully operational and with all of Gaspar’s research, Dalton began scheming.
EVENT: Escape from the Dimensional Vortex – While under the direction of Dalton, Research Group 3A probed the expanse of the Dimensional Vortex for some sign of an exit. What they found was that places in time with great temporal activity primarily contribute to the contents of the Dimensional Vortex as they are the crossroads where timelines greatly diverge. Dalton encountered Crono, Marle, and Lucca while investigating possible exits but was driven off. This solidified his plans to seek revenge and place himself as new the king of the planet. Dalton used a Golem Gate to transfer back to the Temporal Research Laboratory where he initiated his final escape plan leaving behind Shades of Crono, Marle, and Lucca to destroy them. With a small army of robot sentinels Dalton took leave of his temporal prison and into AD 1,000.
EVENT: The Fall of Guardia – Dalton, armed with technology far in advance of the time period he now stood within, went about fulfilling his ambition. Dalton knew that so long as he did not inflict severe damage to the time line, he could remain impugn to the meddling of time traveling do-gooders. With his army of robots, Dalton activated the Chrono Divider and set about conquering the humble nation of Porre. When the fighting had ended, Dalton installed himself as supreme leader and immediately reformed its government. When he was satisfied, Dalton deactivated the Chrono Divider thus removing his bloody rise to power from the perception of all but him and Research Group 3A. To the rest of the world Porre became a military power seemingly overnight. Dalton created a new identity for himself as President Zeal. He then began a campaign to build a standing army to pursue a goal of manifest destiny. And all this time none could remember the bloodshed of his rise to power.
The battle against Guardia took place in AD 1005 and was by all accounts one-sided. Using the Chrono Divider, Dalton continually redrew the battle field with his opponents incapable of opposing him. Dalton burned Truce Village to the ground and due to the Chrono Divider; there were none to remember it.
The King of Guardia petitioned Crono, now heir to the throne and Lord Protector of the Realm, to find a way to defeat Porre. They mounted the Epoch with a plan to subvert Dalton’s will from the year AD 600…but all did not go well for them. With Guardia Castle surrounded by Porre forces, Dalton observed as the Epoch launched into the air. Before it gated to another time line he activated the Chrono Divider and then deactivated it once the gate had been completed. The Epoch could not take them back in time, as the era they had left from was an era disconnected from any other point in time. Crono and Marle aboard the Epoch became prisoners of an isolated instance within time remembered only by he who had sent them.
In the final hours of the siege of Guardia castle Dalton fought against a knight named Rand wielding the Masamune (Grandleon). Both being relics from Zeal, there was an intense reaction and Dalton, Rand, and the Masamune were subjected to the replication effect of the Chrono Divider simultaneously. Dalton was too slow to react after this and Rand drove the Masamune through him ending his life. The first event Shade-Dalton beheld was the death of his own self. Shade-Dalton struck down Rand leaving his Shade to its own devices. Shade-Dalton, unaware of his own purpose, left the battlefield to parts unknown.
EVENT: The Masamune’s Fate – Porre had defeated Guardia though it had lost its leader, President Zeal, aka, Dalton. Not wanting to drive the people of Guardia into absolute ruin a summit was held between King Guardia and the newly appointed leader of Porre, Gast.
The two nations sign a treaty of no aggression and Guardia officially became a country within the Nation of Porre. The symbols of this agreement were the twin Masamune blades. The original blade returned to its keeping within the Guardia treasury, the Shade Masamune was taken back to Porre.
CHARACTER: Shade-Dalton – The clone of Dalton, having seen its own death, perceived life differently than its original had done. Feeling great regret over its memories and its first ever action of taking a life, it committed itself to the benefit of all living creatures. Without the perspective of its original, Shade-Dalton could not justify the meaning of its memories.
CHARACTER: Shade-Rand – Left a directionless warrior amidst a bloody conflict, Shade-Rand quickly became a killing machine only interested in validating its memories of training for battle. Killing friend and foe alike it carved out a reputation of terror the night of its birth. After sustaining enough injuries while fighting, Shade-Rand escaped leaving behind only rumors.
CHARACTER: Gast – The new President of the Nation of Porre, Gast is a far cry less despotic than the nation’s founder, Zeal. As he is truly ignorant of the machinations of his country’s founding, he governs fairly and passionately.
CHARACTER: The Coordinators - Seeking to return to their own time, the Coordinators realized that they had the potential to construct a machine that could control time. Lacking certain technology, however, progress would be slow.
CHARACTER: Lucca – Not being a direct target of the Porre invasion, Lucca’s orphanage went unmolested during the conflict. Knowing that Crono and Marle had intended to travel back in time to prevent the war, but incapable of knowing about their isolated time line, feared they had met with disaster in another era. Lucca lent her skills to Porre in hopes she would be able to devise a method to create a Time Egg to find Crono and Marle. Events carried out beyond this are as described in Chrono Cross.
LOCATION: AD 1025 – The Nation of Porre encompasses the majority of civilization. Regardless of having left any prior authority to all nations absorbed into Porre, absolute authority is still held by President Gast. Civilization is at its height, the bright future of the planet known to the Coordinators seems to be coming into effect nicely.
This is, however, until an expedition team from El Nido returned with an object most desired by the Coordinators, the Frozen Flame. The original power source for Chronopolis, it gave the Coordinators the power they needed to complete their own version of Chronopolis.
CHARACTER: The Protagonist – As Truce Village burned all around him in AD 1005 this young boy swore that no power on heaven or earth could deter him from remembering. He watched as Porre’s robot soldiers razed the buildings and set fire to the fields. His parents died in the attack and he was left standing alone, watching as the horrors unfolded.
The day after the attack he became an unknown child. There were none who remembered the burning of Truce Village, in fact, few could remember it had been there at all. Alone and afraid, he was found by Lucca and taken in.
One night, years later, the boy watched as Lucca worked on an egg-shaped object. As Lucca slept, exhausted from her work, he crept in and picked the item up. There was a reaction and in an instant the boy remembered it all! He saw the terror and felt the heat of the flames! He alone amongst all others had surpassed the perception dampening powers of the Chrono Divider! He took the Time Egg and fled into the night. He was forever changed, a child living within a varied state of time than all others.
The Premise – The Protagonist will come to learn that current reality is one of a greatly altered perception. Large portions of time have been isolated to some unknown end. These isolated points in time have all merged together to form a parallel compressed time line full of refugees from their own eras. Armed with his Time Egg, the Protagonist can freely go back and forth between the true time line and the compressed time line restoring the damage inflicted by the Chrono Divider.
The Frozen Flame has guided the Coordinators to places in time to where the Chrono Dividers powers may serve its purposes best. As to what the ultimate goal is, I am still unsure. Being veterans of the Dimensional Vortex, the Coordinators have been able to use their Chronopolis to travel in time to AD 2300, AD 1000, and AD 12000 using the crossroads of timelines which were once the exits from the Dimensional Vortex. From these staging grounds they alter events towards a nefarious end.
The truth of the future is hidden away behind false perception. Only when the Protagonist reconciles the timelines will the future be known.
NOTES:
The Masamune – When the Masamune was duplicated, its Shade-Masamune counterpart also contains Shade-Masa and Shade-Mune. They are as all Shades, possessing memory but not purpose. They recall their history but can only find cause for anger. It is this anger which drives them to become a cursed sword as seen in Chrono Cross.
Fixed Positions in Time – Even with the incredible power of the Time Egg one cannot simply pick a point in history and go there. The events in Chrono Trigger were relevant to the year AD 1000. In relative time, each era visited by Crono has similar had 25 years of time pass, as it is now AD 1025. Lavos cannot be stopped from being destroyed, nor can the Time Devourer.
Well, that is what I have written, if anyone wants to add anything or ask questions, please do.
7
Time, Space, and Dimensions / Re: TTI/TB/TE Reformation Idea Collection
« on: October 10, 2009, 11:35:17 pm »
I, too, believe Thought's "Theme Theory" to be the most probable explanation as to how the time line operates. I have a variant view as to how it is changed, however.
As there was a clear agenda behind the events of Chrono Trigger, those of the -Entity-, it can be safely said that the eight chosen points in the time line were specified for a reason.
Crono and many of the other characters within the game are all Chrono Triggers. It was stated in Chrono Cross that by releasing strong enough feelings or desires one can change time.
Within these eight time periods, Crono and his friends found the desire to change the time line and then the power to do so.
Here is how I believe it works.
A Chrono Trigger who goes back in time and changes history does so out of desire to do so. This asserts a governing principle behind "what will happen next."
Each time traveler is still relative to their own place in time, so changes made would reflect upon that. Of all possibilities resultant from a change in the time line, the option closest to the desire of the Chrono Trigger is accepted into the time line.
This fairly well defines what "Chrono Trigger" means. It is an initiation of events in time.
Please accept this as less of a scientific concept, and more something fitting within Thought's "Theme Is Supreme"...because it is.
I stated here http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,5571.msg181204.html#new that I believe that the Frozen Flame is a device with which Lavos alters potential events in time to best provide for its slumbering physical body. So I state that the original time line before Crono passed first into AD 600 was one engineered to provide for the sleeping Lavos. It was a time line where the Frozen Flame introduced changes to the original species to insure their proliferation and evolution so that Lavos could collect their DNA.
Arbiters of the Flame are people who are literally the thrall of Lavos through the Frozen Flame. The Queen of Zeal did not build the Undersea Palace and Mammon Machine to empower Zeal...she did it because the Frozen Flame found humanity to be stagnating and in need of a "reboot." The Black Omen was a tall hill from which the Arbiter could closely watch over the time line like a shepherd over sheep.
All of history was manipulated away from extinction or stagnation until Lavos was ready.
The -Entity- chose eight specific eras to combat Lavos, and it chose certain people within those eras, all Chrono Triggers, to guide the time line back to one where Lavos is not present.
There is no way for me to ascertain if whether Crono and his friends were empowered as Chrono Triggers, or they just always were. The end of Chrono Trigger, with the Fall of Guardia, may suggest the former. Maybe without the -Entity- letting them Will the future, they got caught with their pants down?
One point where the time line changes quite drastically is the Undersea Palace scene.
In it there is a conflict between the Chrono Trigger and the Frozen Flame.
"The Chrono Trigger, if combined with the Frozen Flame, can (according to legend) grant unimaginable powers over time and space to the point that history can be shaped according to the will of the user of these two powers."
I believe that when Crono and party interrupted the ritual for Schala to activate the Mammon Machine, every person assembled was sent somewhere best suited to their unconscious desires. Though they knew not the destination, their subconscious need to fulfill certain goals figured that out for them.
I am getting pretty sleepy, so I will state that this is my feeling on the way time can be changed, though it is far from complete.
The very nature of the Chrono Trigger touches on the concept of 'reality is perception.'
I think with the right discussion this could be properly fleshed out. The game does evidence much of what I've said, just in subtle ways.
So?
As there was a clear agenda behind the events of Chrono Trigger, those of the -Entity-, it can be safely said that the eight chosen points in the time line were specified for a reason.
Crono and many of the other characters within the game are all Chrono Triggers. It was stated in Chrono Cross that by releasing strong enough feelings or desires one can change time.
Within these eight time periods, Crono and his friends found the desire to change the time line and then the power to do so.
Here is how I believe it works.
A Chrono Trigger who goes back in time and changes history does so out of desire to do so. This asserts a governing principle behind "what will happen next."
Each time traveler is still relative to their own place in time, so changes made would reflect upon that. Of all possibilities resultant from a change in the time line, the option closest to the desire of the Chrono Trigger is accepted into the time line.
This fairly well defines what "Chrono Trigger" means. It is an initiation of events in time.
Please accept this as less of a scientific concept, and more something fitting within Thought's "Theme Is Supreme"...because it is.
I stated here http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,5571.msg181204.html#new that I believe that the Frozen Flame is a device with which Lavos alters potential events in time to best provide for its slumbering physical body. So I state that the original time line before Crono passed first into AD 600 was one engineered to provide for the sleeping Lavos. It was a time line where the Frozen Flame introduced changes to the original species to insure their proliferation and evolution so that Lavos could collect their DNA.
Arbiters of the Flame are people who are literally the thrall of Lavos through the Frozen Flame. The Queen of Zeal did not build the Undersea Palace and Mammon Machine to empower Zeal...she did it because the Frozen Flame found humanity to be stagnating and in need of a "reboot." The Black Omen was a tall hill from which the Arbiter could closely watch over the time line like a shepherd over sheep.
All of history was manipulated away from extinction or stagnation until Lavos was ready.
The -Entity- chose eight specific eras to combat Lavos, and it chose certain people within those eras, all Chrono Triggers, to guide the time line back to one where Lavos is not present.
There is no way for me to ascertain if whether Crono and his friends were empowered as Chrono Triggers, or they just always were. The end of Chrono Trigger, with the Fall of Guardia, may suggest the former. Maybe without the -Entity- letting them Will the future, they got caught with their pants down?
One point where the time line changes quite drastically is the Undersea Palace scene.
In it there is a conflict between the Chrono Trigger and the Frozen Flame.
"The Chrono Trigger, if combined with the Frozen Flame, can (according to legend) grant unimaginable powers over time and space to the point that history can be shaped according to the will of the user of these two powers."
I believe that when Crono and party interrupted the ritual for Schala to activate the Mammon Machine, every person assembled was sent somewhere best suited to their unconscious desires. Though they knew not the destination, their subconscious need to fulfill certain goals figured that out for them.
I am getting pretty sleepy, so I will state that this is my feeling on the way time can be changed, though it is far from complete.
The very nature of the Chrono Trigger touches on the concept of 'reality is perception.'
I think with the right discussion this could be properly fleshed out. The game does evidence much of what I've said, just in subtle ways.
So?
8
Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Re: The Passion of the Lavos: Reconsidering the Frozen Flame
« on: October 10, 2009, 07:53:49 pm »
It was always my belief, from when I first played Chrono Cross, that the Frozen Flame was a tool Lavos used to manipulate the creatures on the planet so as to gain their DNA.
At the end of Chrono Trigger you discovered that Lavos' agenda was simply to take in all the DNA from all of the inhabitants of the planet, and that terror was expressed that all creatures had been raised like cattle.
A good reference to this would come from the game Xenogears, and though primarily written by Soraya Saga, Masato Kato wrote parts of it. Chrono Cross was written after Xenogears...I will explain.
In Xenogears the presence of the Zohar on the planet permeated it with an energy presence called Phenomenon Phase Shift. This power, though alien to the planet, was recognized by those living on the planet and they were able to utilize it to build machines. Eventually, though exposure to this power, humans evolved to the point where they could manipulate Ether Powers (Magic). Further still, Phenomenon Phase Shift governs more than simple fuel and magic needs, it can literally alter destiny if a strong enough willpower presents the desire. Therefore, if someone of strong enough Will wants something bad enough, the Zohar will calculate all possible phenomenon eliminating them down to where only the desired phenomenon still exists.
This is a very similar situation as in the Chrono games. Is the term Chrono Trigger (as originally presented in Chrono Cross, written after Xenogears) relevant to this example?
Let us assume that Lavos is from a species that literally exists as a parasite of planets. If Lavos does in fact grow from the absorption of DNA, then simply dwelling within a planet for ages is a poor way to farm it. The Frozen Flame was inserted in the world, likely in the Primeval Era, where it set about "manipulating" the creatures on the planet for its own purposes. The fact that it eradicated the Reptites first would present an intelligence perhaps recognizing better potential for longevity from the humans. Later, in Zeal, society had reached a zenith, but Lavos was not full, so he destroyed Zeal.
I believe that the Frozen Flame exists solely to get Lavos food via the manipulation of time, species, and destiny.
The term "Arbiter of the Flame" can very likely be directly tied to a living creature on the planet that would best serve Lavos' will, such as the Queen of Zeal, and drive the to acts in the service of Lavos. When the Queen, "regained her humanity" she was taken from this service and thusly granted her own will (or she was killed).
Another similarity, which will only serve to grant credibility for my beliefs, is that in Xenogears Solaris uses the Memory Cubes (save points) to gather information about the surface dwelling humans. In Chrono Cross you find out the Memory Pyramids serve and identical purpose to Chronopolis.
I am not saying that CC ripped off Xenogears, I am stating that it is likely that Kato's influence on the plot of Xenogears he again used when putting together CC.
So here is a diagram of my logic:
1. Lavos enters planet, dispatches Frozen Flame.
2. Frozen Flame examines all current factors on the planet and then takes steps to isolate those with the most possibility and nurture them.
3. Lavos is maintained throughout the timeline by the subtle actions of the Frozen Flame.
4. A fully matured Lavos emerges from the depths of the planet, discharges its progeny, and its life-cycle is completed.
Now, in opposition to this, we can state that the -Entity- is some manner of ethereal sentience of the planet itself. To defend itself it determines key places in its own timeline that can be used to disrupt the destiny manipulating actions of the Frozen Flame and then elects to aggregate its will around a single individual (Chrono).
This person could very likely have been engineered by the planet itself. Regardless, it gives this individual the ability to access the timeline in different points in such a way as to first educate, and then empower the individual. The plot points of Chrono Trigger and their convenient order is even noticed in-game by Lucca who develops the theory of the Entity.
Not every single action from the two games would be a literal action taken by one of these two parties, but it is clear that manipulation from one of these two forces is responsible for very many of the greater changes to the planet's history particularly regarding the presented timelines in the game.
In Chrono Cross the mission of Lavos will have changed from Trigger, and of course the mission of the Frozen Flame will have as well, though a very similar logic can be ascribed.
Chrono Trigger = Keeping Lavos alive.
Chrono Cross = Bringing Lavos back to life.
There are of course far more many mechanics to this world such as a changeable timeline and parallel dimensions. The origin of these mechanics cannot be divined from the games themselves, but what is stated are some of the methods by with which to manipulate them. It stands to reason that if a planet is -alive- that it may option use of mechanics such as time/space manipulation.
This does not cover every variable of the plot, but I believe it is a strong basis for what Kato believes. We know that he wrote some parts of Xenogears, and there are a number of similarities between Deus/Omega and Lavos. The literal specifics are different, but the inception and goals are strongly similar.
If you want me to elaborate further, I can, but I think you all can see my position.
At the end of Chrono Trigger you discovered that Lavos' agenda was simply to take in all the DNA from all of the inhabitants of the planet, and that terror was expressed that all creatures had been raised like cattle.
A good reference to this would come from the game Xenogears, and though primarily written by Soraya Saga, Masato Kato wrote parts of it. Chrono Cross was written after Xenogears...I will explain.
In Xenogears the presence of the Zohar on the planet permeated it with an energy presence called Phenomenon Phase Shift. This power, though alien to the planet, was recognized by those living on the planet and they were able to utilize it to build machines. Eventually, though exposure to this power, humans evolved to the point where they could manipulate Ether Powers (Magic). Further still, Phenomenon Phase Shift governs more than simple fuel and magic needs, it can literally alter destiny if a strong enough willpower presents the desire. Therefore, if someone of strong enough Will wants something bad enough, the Zohar will calculate all possible phenomenon eliminating them down to where only the desired phenomenon still exists.
This is a very similar situation as in the Chrono games. Is the term Chrono Trigger (as originally presented in Chrono Cross, written after Xenogears) relevant to this example?
Let us assume that Lavos is from a species that literally exists as a parasite of planets. If Lavos does in fact grow from the absorption of DNA, then simply dwelling within a planet for ages is a poor way to farm it. The Frozen Flame was inserted in the world, likely in the Primeval Era, where it set about "manipulating" the creatures on the planet for its own purposes. The fact that it eradicated the Reptites first would present an intelligence perhaps recognizing better potential for longevity from the humans. Later, in Zeal, society had reached a zenith, but Lavos was not full, so he destroyed Zeal.
I believe that the Frozen Flame exists solely to get Lavos food via the manipulation of time, species, and destiny.
The term "Arbiter of the Flame" can very likely be directly tied to a living creature on the planet that would best serve Lavos' will, such as the Queen of Zeal, and drive the to acts in the service of Lavos. When the Queen, "regained her humanity" she was taken from this service and thusly granted her own will (or she was killed).
Another similarity, which will only serve to grant credibility for my beliefs, is that in Xenogears Solaris uses the Memory Cubes (save points) to gather information about the surface dwelling humans. In Chrono Cross you find out the Memory Pyramids serve and identical purpose to Chronopolis.
I am not saying that CC ripped off Xenogears, I am stating that it is likely that Kato's influence on the plot of Xenogears he again used when putting together CC.
So here is a diagram of my logic:
1. Lavos enters planet, dispatches Frozen Flame.
2. Frozen Flame examines all current factors on the planet and then takes steps to isolate those with the most possibility and nurture them.
3. Lavos is maintained throughout the timeline by the subtle actions of the Frozen Flame.
4. A fully matured Lavos emerges from the depths of the planet, discharges its progeny, and its life-cycle is completed.
Now, in opposition to this, we can state that the -Entity- is some manner of ethereal sentience of the planet itself. To defend itself it determines key places in its own timeline that can be used to disrupt the destiny manipulating actions of the Frozen Flame and then elects to aggregate its will around a single individual (Chrono).
This person could very likely have been engineered by the planet itself. Regardless, it gives this individual the ability to access the timeline in different points in such a way as to first educate, and then empower the individual. The plot points of Chrono Trigger and their convenient order is even noticed in-game by Lucca who develops the theory of the Entity.
Not every single action from the two games would be a literal action taken by one of these two parties, but it is clear that manipulation from one of these two forces is responsible for very many of the greater changes to the planet's history particularly regarding the presented timelines in the game.
In Chrono Cross the mission of Lavos will have changed from Trigger, and of course the mission of the Frozen Flame will have as well, though a very similar logic can be ascribed.
Chrono Trigger = Keeping Lavos alive.
Chrono Cross = Bringing Lavos back to life.
There are of course far more many mechanics to this world such as a changeable timeline and parallel dimensions. The origin of these mechanics cannot be divined from the games themselves, but what is stated are some of the methods by with which to manipulate them. It stands to reason that if a planet is -alive- that it may option use of mechanics such as time/space manipulation.
This does not cover every variable of the plot, but I believe it is a strong basis for what Kato believes. We know that he wrote some parts of Xenogears, and there are a number of similarities between Deus/Omega and Lavos. The literal specifics are different, but the inception and goals are strongly similar.
If you want me to elaborate further, I can, but I think you all can see my position.
9
Reality, Real-World Connections, and the Supernatural / Re: Should AD and BC have been used in the Chrono series?
« on: October 10, 2009, 05:16:12 pm »
I know I am coming into this topic rather late, but I would like to add that as an RPG Chrono Trigger uses abstractions such as the lack of cities on a continent or the size of a sprite in relation to the size of a house maptile.
Therefore the presence of Latin, AD, and BC could simply be an abstraction representing the "nearest equivalent" in relation to their world.
The development team, rather than devise new terms and language, likely used which ones they felt would quickly and easily represent their intended meaning. So a literal analysis may not be necessarily possible. Generally history is divided up by each new epoch. The Victorian Era began with the coronation of the Queen Victoria. The Inter-War Period began with the end of World War I.
In Chrono Trigger the timelines seem to be focused on the transition from one epoch to another. For instance in Prehistory you see the fall of Lavos and the end of the Reptites. This could easily signify the end of the epoch into a new one. In Antiquity you see the fall of Zeal...again the transition from one epoch to another.
AD 600, the end of the War of the Mystics...again the end of an epoch.
AD 1000 is within an epoch, but apparently does not end until Porre destroys it. This may or may not be the end of the epoch, thought if AD is an abstract term literally referencing Guardia, then it likely would be. However, as AD 1999 and AD 2300 are recorded as they are, it could mean that the calender system in reference to the founding of Guardia was not dismissed. At least by Gaspar.
AD 1999 is the end of recorded history. A new epoch, the last epoch, begins.
AD 2300 is a time within the last epoch, where there is no possibility for history to continue.
It is likely, however, that the robots under mother brain, providing they one-day achieve global domination, would put in place their own calender, which may or may not even have significant relevance to the Gregorian one as robots would see little purpose in emulating a human system.
Now, I cannot recall if anyone in the game script uses the term AD or if it is just for when using the Epoch. Regardless, I believe that if you want to explain it via plot it likely would be a method of recording history from the viewpoint of Gaspar using the 1000th year of Guardia as a starting reference point.
That is my two-cents.
Therefore the presence of Latin, AD, and BC could simply be an abstraction representing the "nearest equivalent" in relation to their world.
The development team, rather than devise new terms and language, likely used which ones they felt would quickly and easily represent their intended meaning. So a literal analysis may not be necessarily possible. Generally history is divided up by each new epoch. The Victorian Era began with the coronation of the Queen Victoria. The Inter-War Period began with the end of World War I.
In Chrono Trigger the timelines seem to be focused on the transition from one epoch to another. For instance in Prehistory you see the fall of Lavos and the end of the Reptites. This could easily signify the end of the epoch into a new one. In Antiquity you see the fall of Zeal...again the transition from one epoch to another.
AD 600, the end of the War of the Mystics...again the end of an epoch.
AD 1000 is within an epoch, but apparently does not end until Porre destroys it. This may or may not be the end of the epoch, thought if AD is an abstract term literally referencing Guardia, then it likely would be. However, as AD 1999 and AD 2300 are recorded as they are, it could mean that the calender system in reference to the founding of Guardia was not dismissed. At least by Gaspar.
AD 1999 is the end of recorded history. A new epoch, the last epoch, begins.
AD 2300 is a time within the last epoch, where there is no possibility for history to continue.
It is likely, however, that the robots under mother brain, providing they one-day achieve global domination, would put in place their own calender, which may or may not even have significant relevance to the Gregorian one as robots would see little purpose in emulating a human system.
Now, I cannot recall if anyone in the game script uses the term AD or if it is just for when using the Epoch. Regardless, I believe that if you want to explain it via plot it likely would be a method of recording history from the viewpoint of Gaspar using the 1000th year of Guardia as a starting reference point.
That is my two-cents.
10
Fan Art / Re: AD 1005 Character Art
« on: October 10, 2009, 03:51:05 pm »
Yeah, mistressofcows on deviant art is my wife. She draws for me.
11
Fan Art / AD 1005 Character Art
« on: October 10, 2009, 03:33:39 pm »
The purpose of this thread is that I want to supply new character art for the characters of Chrono Trigger assuming five years has past. Some characters, like Ayla, would likely not change significantly over this.
The first drawing I had my wife complete was the following, which I call: Prince Chrono, Lord Protector of Guardia
, 
Princess Nadia
Any thoughts?
I will put up others as they are finished.
The first drawing I had my wife complete was the following, which I call: Prince Chrono, Lord Protector of Guardia
, 
Princess Nadia
Any thoughts?
I will put up others as they are finished.
12
Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: Welcome, welcome!
« on: October 09, 2009, 07:46:15 pm »
My episodic memory is exceptional. I am able to develop relationships between my memories to best recall them by remembering a single memory which then brings forth others. I remember things by association, like I remember that when I first bought Chrono Trigger I had a friend named Alex. With that expression, I can therefore recall other things, such as the discussions Alex and I had about the meanings of the game...and our conclusions we came to.
Oddly, I cannot remember dates well. I cannot say, "I remember in 1995 I bought Chrono Trigger." I would have to look the year up, I just remember, "I bought Chrono Trigger the year it came out." I can then remember many things from that period of time, but for some reason I never associate it with the numerical date.
I also pride myself on my creativity. I run a Dungeons & Dragons 1E game on Sundays, and I honestly feel flattered by the praise I receive from my players. I know how to tell a story, I can honestly say that.
I can also reverse-engineer almost anything. If I play with something long enough, I can figure it out.
I would like to help someone on a fan game as a producer. I can put together a project and stay with it.
Also, I am not being snide, but there is no such thing as audiographic memory. Photographic--or eidetic memory, encompasses sounds as well as pictures. So, there you go, you can say eidetic memory. Also, you don't have to call it "near" photographic, you just don't call it "literal" photographic. That's the difference.
Oddly, I cannot remember dates well. I cannot say, "I remember in 1995 I bought Chrono Trigger." I would have to look the year up, I just remember, "I bought Chrono Trigger the year it came out." I can then remember many things from that period of time, but for some reason I never associate it with the numerical date.
I also pride myself on my creativity. I run a Dungeons & Dragons 1E game on Sundays, and I honestly feel flattered by the praise I receive from my players. I know how to tell a story, I can honestly say that.
I can also reverse-engineer almost anything. If I play with something long enough, I can figure it out.
I would like to help someone on a fan game as a producer. I can put together a project and stay with it.
Also, I am not being snide, but there is no such thing as audiographic memory. Photographic--or eidetic memory, encompasses sounds as well as pictures. So, there you go, you can say eidetic memory. Also, you don't have to call it "near" photographic, you just don't call it "literal" photographic. That's the difference.
13
Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: Welcome, welcome!
« on: October 09, 2009, 03:06:52 pm »WELCOME SECRET SKELETON.
(from another married guy, but minus the kids)
You should have children, we need more able and intelligent people in the world. Additionally, what better proof of one's existence is there but to reproduce?
14
Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: Welcome, welcome!
« on: October 09, 2009, 04:19:46 am »
I would like to take this time to introduce myself to all assembled. My name is Wes, I am 27, married and a father of two. I currently do not work in favor of home-schooling my children which lends to me much time to haunt forums such as here.
I have been visiting Chrono Compendium for a rather long time and have just now decided I should participate to some degree.
Playing console RPG's has always been a constant parallel to all other aspects of my life. I have gathered up around me all I have ever been able to find in some mad pursuit of playing through them all. I got an NES from an estranged grandmother for Christmas in 1989 and as a lark she bought me one game with said system: Dragon Warrior. From that point forward RPG's were what I was doing when I didn't have to be anyone or anywhere else.
I should also state that I had Chrono Trigger within hours of its US release. I read a Nintendo Power Epic Center article on it and all I needed to see frankly was that it vaguely resembled Final Fantasy 3(VI).
To pay for this game, I shoveled out horse stalls for a month.
My passions are writing and role-playing games...that is to obviously include my family.
My wife is an amateur artist who is of professional skill who curiously does not aspire to change that.
I greatly admire the devotion the members of this forum show to the things that they love. I believe that you can find passion and inspiration and even principles with which you may live your life by within role-playing games.
Regardless of all of that, I do wish to say that I hope I may be an asset to this place. My memory is nearly supernatural in regards to what I have read or observed, particularly where RPG's are concerned. That is, I suppose, some thing.
Everyone has at least one superpower.
I have been visiting Chrono Compendium for a rather long time and have just now decided I should participate to some degree.
Playing console RPG's has always been a constant parallel to all other aspects of my life. I have gathered up around me all I have ever been able to find in some mad pursuit of playing through them all. I got an NES from an estranged grandmother for Christmas in 1989 and as a lark she bought me one game with said system: Dragon Warrior. From that point forward RPG's were what I was doing when I didn't have to be anyone or anywhere else.
I should also state that I had Chrono Trigger within hours of its US release. I read a Nintendo Power Epic Center article on it and all I needed to see frankly was that it vaguely resembled Final Fantasy 3(VI).
To pay for this game, I shoveled out horse stalls for a month.
My passions are writing and role-playing games...that is to obviously include my family.
My wife is an amateur artist who is of professional skill who curiously does not aspire to change that.
I greatly admire the devotion the members of this forum show to the things that they love. I believe that you can find passion and inspiration and even principles with which you may live your life by within role-playing games.
Regardless of all of that, I do wish to say that I hope I may be an asset to this place. My memory is nearly supernatural in regards to what I have read or observed, particularly where RPG's are concerned. That is, I suppose, some thing.
Everyone has at least one superpower.
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