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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Answering a friend's question about some possible plot holes, need assistance
« on: December 03, 2011, 02:18:51 pm »
It looks like yesterday wasn't a very good day in reading comprehension for me. And yes, as far as I can tell. Though you may want a second opinion on that considering my track record... 
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Answering a friend's question about some possible plot holes, need assistance
« on: December 03, 2011, 02:37:42 am »
My bad, Acacia Sgt. I DID think you were referring to Marle at the time. Thanks for the clarification.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Answering a friend's question about some possible plot holes, need assistance
« on: December 02, 2011, 07:52:00 pm »So just to be clear so I can follow this better:
1. Why did Marle disappear if she has Time Traveler's Immunity?
and
2. If Schala were to not escape from the Ocean Palace, then the Pendent should no longer be in the timeline other than the one Crono and Co. are using.
You're going to get a lot of differing opinions on this, but in my version of events Marle did not have TTI at that point in time. As far as I'm concerned TTI is caused by the Gate Key or the pendant. If you don't have either of those on you, you have to be insanely careful when time traveling or else you'll create a paradox like Marle did. It's the reason why the time travelers from Chronopolis created safeguards to keep them from engaging in interactions with the Zenan mainland that could change history.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Answering a friend's question about some possible plot holes, need assistance
« on: December 02, 2011, 04:17:50 pm »
Maggiekarp, Acacia Sgt, ancestors are the people who come before you. Like your grandparents. Descendants are the people who come after you, like your kids. I see people misuse these words all the time on these boards and it’s getting to be a pet peeve of mine. Xcalibur, you’re doing it right.
Secondly, I can’t help but wonder if we’re overthinking the problem with the pendant. We learn in Chrono Cross that Schala’s pendant is capable of rewinding time. Why couldn’t it simply rewind itself back to when the Guardia royal line would first come across it after Kid was done using it? For all we know, in the original timeline it may have “fast-forwarded” itself to a safer point in time.
Secondly, I can’t help but wonder if we’re overthinking the problem with the pendant. We learn in Chrono Cross that Schala’s pendant is capable of rewinding time. Why couldn’t it simply rewind itself back to when the Guardia royal line would first come across it after Kid was done using it? For all we know, in the original timeline it may have “fast-forwarded” itself to a safer point in time.
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Chrono / Gameplay Casual Discussion / Re: Answering a friend's question about some possible plot holes, need assistance
« on: December 02, 2011, 01:43:09 am »
I really don’t think the Marle paradox is as complicated as everyone tries to make it. I have two theories about this:
My first theory is that it’s a bit like throwing a rock into a lake: it takes a while for the ripples to reach to reach the edges. Marle disappears because she is the closest to where the rock lands by being a direct descendant of Queen Leene. The reason Crono and Lucca aren’t immediately affected is because that distortion in time hasn’t reached them.
Or, my second theory, the pendant and gate key protect them from losing their memories. Lucca and Crono’s proximity to the Telepod after Marle disappears at the Millennial Fair keep their memories fully intact. Crono goes into the past with the pendant protecting him (alas, only capable of protecting the person physically holding it) and Lucca later follows with the gate key, which is made from parts of the Telepod. I like to think that Crono is incapable of leaving the “room” after Marle is thrown back in time because that’s the extent of the Telepod/gate key’s range (well, that and his underlying moral convictions [or guilt trip by Lucca depending on how you play it]). Any further and he would lose his memories.
Or it’s a combination of the two.
As for Belthasar and Gaspar, I have (yet again) two theories: One is that Lavos would be gunning for them no matter where in Zeal Kingdom they were and sent them into other times where they would be less of a threat to him. The other is that the events of Magus’ flashback still occurred; however, it happened either shortly before Crono and company arrived in the Ocean Palace, or while the team was busy fighting Lavos. After all, Queen Zeal, Schala, and Magus all teleport in immediately after Lavos trounced Crono and company; who says they weren't dealing with some pesky Gurus and a young prince?
My first theory is that it’s a bit like throwing a rock into a lake: it takes a while for the ripples to reach to reach the edges. Marle disappears because she is the closest to where the rock lands by being a direct descendant of Queen Leene. The reason Crono and Lucca aren’t immediately affected is because that distortion in time hasn’t reached them.
Or, my second theory, the pendant and gate key protect them from losing their memories. Lucca and Crono’s proximity to the Telepod after Marle disappears at the Millennial Fair keep their memories fully intact. Crono goes into the past with the pendant protecting him (alas, only capable of protecting the person physically holding it) and Lucca later follows with the gate key, which is made from parts of the Telepod. I like to think that Crono is incapable of leaving the “room” after Marle is thrown back in time because that’s the extent of the Telepod/gate key’s range (well, that and his underlying moral convictions [or guilt trip by Lucca depending on how you play it]). Any further and he would lose his memories.
Or it’s a combination of the two.
As for Belthasar and Gaspar, I have (yet again) two theories: One is that Lavos would be gunning for them no matter where in Zeal Kingdom they were and sent them into other times where they would be less of a threat to him. The other is that the events of Magus’ flashback still occurred; however, it happened either shortly before Crono and company arrived in the Ocean Palace, or while the team was busy fighting Lavos. After all, Queen Zeal, Schala, and Magus all teleport in immediately after Lavos trounced Crono and company; who says they weren't dealing with some pesky Gurus and a young prince?
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Why kill off everyone we knew in CT?
« on: December 12, 2010, 04:01:56 am »
Idioticidioms, Belthasar is the one who traveled back in time, not Gaspar.
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Magic, Elements, and Technology / Re: The Nature of Shadow
« on: July 23, 2010, 04:31:19 pm »
It's called shadow for a reason. Shadows cannot exist without light to give them form. If it were the opposite, it would be called darkness. Both lightning and fire give off light, which can combine with water to create a "shorter" shadow or water and the other element to create a "longer" shadow due to more light being brought in.
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Magic, Elements, and Technology / Re: Epoch and the Conservation of Time
« on: July 23, 2010, 04:21:26 pm »
I agree. In fact, I think the black gate bears similarity to what happened originally in 12,000 BC when Janus and the Gurus were thrown into their own individual gates. The party's proximity to each other may have made it so that when they were sucked in they went together into a normal gate within the black one.
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Magic, Elements, and Technology / Re: Epoch and the Conservation of Time
« on: July 22, 2010, 04:43:34 pm »
That depends on how you define a being. Robo is sentient, has a will of his own. He raises questions about his own existence and defies his programming. He may not be human, but I'd definitely say he's a "being." The Epoch is a little trickier in my opinion. It shows qualities that make it seem as though it's "alive" -- following the characters to certain time periods after they left it in others. After bringing Crono back with the Chrono Trigger, Gasper does say it "seems to have a heart and a mind of its own." However, it was built to be a time machine. By traveling inside it, that may be the loophole needed to bypass the "being" clause. If they were to try to bring it through a gate with them on the outside, then there might be trouble.
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General Discussion / Re: Lost
« on: May 25, 2010, 01:01:25 am »
ZeaLitY, I’ll counter your theory on the origin of the smoke monster with a theory of my own: The woman who raised Jacob and MiB was a smoke monster. She managed to destroy the village where MiB has been living and the people in it all by herself. That seems like an impossible task for one woman alone, unless she had some extraordinary power. As we’ve never seen Jacob exhibit any destructive abilities to stop his brother’s pawns from accomplishing his goals, we must assume that the position of guardian of the source does not include them. So where did they come from?
And how did she know that getting too close to the light was a fate “worse than death?” It’s possible that it was a story passed down from guardian to guardian, but her insistence that Jacob and MiB stay away from it makes it seem as though she has seen it happen to someone in the past or it has happened to her. That’s real fear there. And as it’s a fate worse than death, it would explain why she thanked MiB after provoking him into killing her. Beyond a general tiredness for life (which she never showed), there’s no reason why she would want to die.
But if they were both smoke monsters, why was it so easy to kill her and so difficult to kill MiB? Her death may have only been possible because of her dual nature, unlike when MiB is made into the smoke monster. But how is a smoke monster made?
Here’s where the fun starts. Obviously, there’s a connection to the source. When MiB gets thrown in by Jacob, there’s a lot more gold light in the cave than in later appearances. It’s possible that he saw the light and tried to pull the stone cork out of the pool in an attempt to leave the island; however, since he lacked Desmond’s unique ability to survive electromagnetic events, he was killed before he could get it all the way out. As a result, some of the light escaped and his body was killed in the process. But MiB was always special: He could see the dead. Isn’t it possible this same ability could allow him to latch onto the escaping gold light – or even the red light that we see come up when Desmond successfully pulls out the cork – and use it to bind his spirit to something related to the very essence of the island?
This may be why his mother was so adamant that he not try to leave the island; she feared that his tampering with the island’s energy, even in spots that didn’t hold the stone cork, would transform him into a smoke monster.
And how did she know that getting too close to the light was a fate “worse than death?” It’s possible that it was a story passed down from guardian to guardian, but her insistence that Jacob and MiB stay away from it makes it seem as though she has seen it happen to someone in the past or it has happened to her. That’s real fear there. And as it’s a fate worse than death, it would explain why she thanked MiB after provoking him into killing her. Beyond a general tiredness for life (which she never showed), there’s no reason why she would want to die.
But if they were both smoke monsters, why was it so easy to kill her and so difficult to kill MiB? Her death may have only been possible because of her dual nature, unlike when MiB is made into the smoke monster. But how is a smoke monster made?
Here’s where the fun starts. Obviously, there’s a connection to the source. When MiB gets thrown in by Jacob, there’s a lot more gold light in the cave than in later appearances. It’s possible that he saw the light and tried to pull the stone cork out of the pool in an attempt to leave the island; however, since he lacked Desmond’s unique ability to survive electromagnetic events, he was killed before he could get it all the way out. As a result, some of the light escaped and his body was killed in the process. But MiB was always special: He could see the dead. Isn’t it possible this same ability could allow him to latch onto the escaping gold light – or even the red light that we see come up when Desmond successfully pulls out the cork – and use it to bind his spirit to something related to the very essence of the island?
This may be why his mother was so adamant that he not try to leave the island; she feared that his tampering with the island’s energy, even in spots that didn’t hold the stone cork, would transform him into a smoke monster.
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History, Locations, and Artifacts / Re: Black Omen possible dimensions/stats.
« on: May 21, 2010, 04:36:01 pm »
Based on the overworld images, its length and width appear larger than Death Peak. I can’t tell what its height is, though. However, that perception might be due to it being closer to the “camera.” When the Epoch flies, it flies under the Black Omen. However, since the Epoch is closer to it than anything else, that might be a good reference point for size. Compare the characters to the Epoch to the Black Omen.
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: Barthday... Barthday...? Barthday!!
« on: May 21, 2010, 04:24:22 pm »
Happy birthday! I don't know why you're feeling like you're old all of a sudden. You're not even close to the top of the hill, let alone over it. Besides, twenty-six sounds nicer than twenty-five. I think it's the sibilant sounds that do it.
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: Wow, hello!
« on: May 16, 2010, 02:01:13 am »
Hello from another lurker-turned-poster. I hope you enjoy posting here as much as you've enjoyed reading it.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Did Magus miss his big chance on Death Peak?
« on: May 15, 2010, 01:49:36 am »
Who knows, he might have even tried pursuing the Time Egg thing on his own afterward, though how he would manage to get to Gaspar without the gates and Epoch, is anyone's guess.
Why would Magus need to go to the End of Time to ask Gaspar how to make a Time Egg? With the gates closed off after the defeat of Lavos, he could get stuck there without access to the materials he would need to build it in the first place. We know Gaspar was working on the Time Egg on a secluded island in 12,000 BC before he was thrown into the gate that brought him to the End of Time. Magus’ reason for going back to that era at the end of the game may have had more to do with searching for Gaspar’s research on the Time Egg than anything else. And if Lavos’ energy is necessary to the process -- I only say this due to the necessity of the characters going to Death Peak where, depending on the translation, Lavos either reigns or gives birth to its offspring -- then 12,000 BC would offer a time and place where Lavos was alive, though dormant after the destruction of Zeal. There would be no need for a Schala clone doll if he were to attempt to rescue her in a moment in which there were no witnesses. Like, say, after Schala sent the characters to safety with her pendant? Belthasar and Lucca were capable of creating Time Eggs on their own. Why shouldn’t Magus be able to as well?
However, a Time Freeze isn’t always guaranteed with a Time Egg. If it was then Belthasar would have rescued Schala in the method outlined above instead of the events of Chrono Cross occuring. The dimensional distortion that pulled Schala into the Darkness Beyond Time must have been stronger than the effects of a Time Freeze, but not strong enough to negate all of the capabilities of the Time Egg. Instead, the Time Egg created a wormhole to the DBT. From his research facility in 2300 AD, Belthasar could have learned about Magus’ failure and started orchestrating the ridiculously complicated plans we see in Chrono Cross.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Re: Zoah's identity: Guardia's last defender?
« on: May 14, 2010, 03:40:10 pm »
That’s a good point. And Marle did mention when her mother was dying that a lot of people were around. I’m sure some of those were relatives which would be royalty or nobility. As Chrono Cross showed us, the world is a much larger place that it appeared in Chrono Trigger and with a lot more political figures that assumed. Porre political and military situation alone was a big surprise. Choras could have a government-in-exile. I remember hearing that it was originally intended that Guardia and Choras would be at war before they decided to go with the Mystics; who’s to say that there wasn’t conflict with Choras that caused the royals to leave their country and set up elsewhere. Choras is also awfully close to the Mystic continent.
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