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Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Re: Theory on Day of Destruction
« on: January 28, 2012, 03:08:16 am »
Yeah, Lavos purposely summoning Chronopolis was the only real kink that says its a free thinking, conscience being. And I never liked that. To do this, Lavos would have to have a vision and understanding of time, cause and effect well past anything we could comprehend. To KNOW to save itself it had to bring Chronopolis because it knew the sequence of events that would come about is what that suggest. But at the same time it also makes no sense, as so many other things Lavos didn't stop or prevent, not to mention summoning Chronopolis in the long run didn't save itself anyway. I think the act of that was just fluke chance, and that Kid is just giving Lavos way too much credit. As it is in real life, it is in games, just because someone says something or thinks it, doesnt make it true. Best I can come up with is after so long of absorbing DNA, that even if its actions are based on a simple instinct, who's to say the complexity of Lavos doesn't take advantage of any and all bits of data it might have absorbed over the eons, even if it doesn't understand what its doing.
2
Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Theory on Time Devourer
« on: January 28, 2012, 01:35:01 am »
First let it be known I only joined this site hours before this post, but I've spent the last week reading up on EVERY topic in Chrono Compendium's Articles and Analysis page. Like many of you, I am a long time fan of the series and find the mysteries and ideas within the games to be quite enthralling. That is a lot of go through in a short time. Thankfully, most of the concepts were things I understood very well or already assumed about the series, just perhaps not in as much deep thinking detail. In the course of reading all of that, it started my own mind thinking about ideas and theories I once had long ago or recently developed. I wanted to list them here together as they all tie in strongly with the being Lavos. I did not see these ideas in either of the topic pages pertaining to Lavos (The Ethics of Lavos or Lavos - Points of Interest). Honestly, if these ideas are already in someone else's thread topic, I am sorry. While I did spend most of the week reading up on most of the Compendium site, I don't think I'll be doing the same for every topic on the forums as well. So, here we are with my third Lavos Theory.
Theory #3: Time Devourer
Once more, the concept in and around the Dream/Time Devourer is already well covered already on the Chrono Compendium site. I did notice that one idea seemed to stand out to me the most to me and got me thinking on this idea. If Lavos is just a creature trying to survive, why would it want to devour all of time and space thus killing itself and stopping what seemed to be its natural way. The idea seems to go against everything else it had done or been trying to accomplish before its defeat by Crono and Company. We get the idea from Schala that once bonded with Lavos, she can feel its hate, sadness, and want for revenge, clearly thoughts of a free thinking being and mind, not a parasite or animal.
Filled with the hatred and
sadness of Lavos, half of
Schala's mind became set on
destroying all of existence.
Now until Lavos and Schala had both gone to the Darkness Beyond Time, there was no mention or suggestion that Lavos had ever bonded with any other being or creature in such a way. It had only absorbed DNA to help further improve itself and/or it's spawn. I believe the reason behind all this that explains things lies in the uniqueness of the circumstances.
Lavos, and as far as we know the Lavos Species, survive by absorbing energy from planets and absorbing DNA from living things over millions of years in order to better improve on itself and/or offspring to better ensure the survival of its kind. Being tossed into the Darkness Beyond Time was a unique situation for Lavos that left it without the very things it needed in order to carry out its natural cycle. But then Schala was there as well and Lavos wasn't alone. Now Lavos couldn't just absorb her DNA alone as it would surely require more then that of one person, not to mention it was likely to already have the DNA of magic using Zeal time living humans. Lavos was also very likely depleted of a good portion of its energy having spent it in the final battles against Crono and Company. So under the uniqueness of the situation, perhaps Lavos' only option was to try to bind to Schala to get as much as it could. Now as stated before, it was never implied that Lavos had done such with another human or creature before, and perhaps the vastly powerful, yet basic instinct driven Lavos, was unable to handle or process the new data. In binding with Schala, perhaps it got the first taste of emotion and self realization ever. Now in Chrono Cross it says,
Filled with the hatred and
sadness of Lavos, half of
Schala's mind became set on
destroying all of existence.
Now as much as I'd hate to pull this out I think it might be a good example for many to relate the concept to, but it strongly reminds me of the situation when the Phoenix entity was bonded with Jean Gray in the X-Men comics/cartoons (not the movie crap version where it was all just a split personality) . A being of immense power and ability, but no emotion getting its first taste of having real feelings. It can't fully comprehend or understand. With Lavos and Schala bonded together, who's to say where one ends and the other begins, as the game says, "half of Schala's mind," . Lavos may not have actually had true hate and sorrow, but perhaps from Schala's human mind and point of view it was the only way the concept could be translated. Lavos was a creature, trying to live out its life, survive, and procreate as any species does, when it is attacked aggressively over and over and thrown out of it's own home where it and it's spawn can't finish its natural way of life. Perhaps with its first taste of emotion and feelings, this is what Schala viewed as Lavos' hate and sadness and its motive for revenge. Keeping with the mixing of the two, some of Lavos would mess with Schala's mind as well. The Dream/Time Devourer's desire to destroy all of space and time goes against its very being and way of life. But keep in mind, this is now a Lavos different from before, with emotions and feelings. Its very way of thinking has been drastically shifted, and in the chaos of the merged minds of Lavos and Schala, simply does not know what it is doing and is just lashing out with pure emotional turmoil.
Theory #3: Time Devourer
Once more, the concept in and around the Dream/Time Devourer is already well covered already on the Chrono Compendium site. I did notice that one idea seemed to stand out to me the most to me and got me thinking on this idea. If Lavos is just a creature trying to survive, why would it want to devour all of time and space thus killing itself and stopping what seemed to be its natural way. The idea seems to go against everything else it had done or been trying to accomplish before its defeat by Crono and Company. We get the idea from Schala that once bonded with Lavos, she can feel its hate, sadness, and want for revenge, clearly thoughts of a free thinking being and mind, not a parasite or animal.
Filled with the hatred and
sadness of Lavos, half of
Schala's mind became set on
destroying all of existence.
Now until Lavos and Schala had both gone to the Darkness Beyond Time, there was no mention or suggestion that Lavos had ever bonded with any other being or creature in such a way. It had only absorbed DNA to help further improve itself and/or it's spawn. I believe the reason behind all this that explains things lies in the uniqueness of the circumstances.
Lavos, and as far as we know the Lavos Species, survive by absorbing energy from planets and absorbing DNA from living things over millions of years in order to better improve on itself and/or offspring to better ensure the survival of its kind. Being tossed into the Darkness Beyond Time was a unique situation for Lavos that left it without the very things it needed in order to carry out its natural cycle. But then Schala was there as well and Lavos wasn't alone. Now Lavos couldn't just absorb her DNA alone as it would surely require more then that of one person, not to mention it was likely to already have the DNA of magic using Zeal time living humans. Lavos was also very likely depleted of a good portion of its energy having spent it in the final battles against Crono and Company. So under the uniqueness of the situation, perhaps Lavos' only option was to try to bind to Schala to get as much as it could. Now as stated before, it was never implied that Lavos had done such with another human or creature before, and perhaps the vastly powerful, yet basic instinct driven Lavos, was unable to handle or process the new data. In binding with Schala, perhaps it got the first taste of emotion and self realization ever. Now in Chrono Cross it says,
Filled with the hatred and
sadness of Lavos, half of
Schala's mind became set on
destroying all of existence.
Now as much as I'd hate to pull this out I think it might be a good example for many to relate the concept to, but it strongly reminds me of the situation when the Phoenix entity was bonded with Jean Gray in the X-Men comics/cartoons (not the movie crap version where it was all just a split personality) . A being of immense power and ability, but no emotion getting its first taste of having real feelings. It can't fully comprehend or understand. With Lavos and Schala bonded together, who's to say where one ends and the other begins, as the game says, "half of Schala's mind," . Lavos may not have actually had true hate and sorrow, but perhaps from Schala's human mind and point of view it was the only way the concept could be translated. Lavos was a creature, trying to live out its life, survive, and procreate as any species does, when it is attacked aggressively over and over and thrown out of it's own home where it and it's spawn can't finish its natural way of life. Perhaps with its first taste of emotion and feelings, this is what Schala viewed as Lavos' hate and sadness and its motive for revenge. Keeping with the mixing of the two, some of Lavos would mess with Schala's mind as well. The Dream/Time Devourer's desire to destroy all of space and time goes against its very being and way of life. But keep in mind, this is now a Lavos different from before, with emotions and feelings. Its very way of thinking has been drastically shifted, and in the chaos of the merged minds of Lavos and Schala, simply does not know what it is doing and is just lashing out with pure emotional turmoil.
3
Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Theory on Day of Destruction
« on: January 28, 2012, 01:34:06 am »
First let it be known I only joined this site hours before this post, but I've spent the last week reading up on EVERY topic in Chrono Compendium's Articles and Analysis page. Like many of you, I am a long time fan of the series and find the mysteries and ideas within the games to be quite enthralling. That is a lot of go through in a short time. Thankfully, most of the concepts were things I understood very well or already assumed about the series, just perhaps not in as much deep thinking detail. In the course of reading all of that, it started my own mind thinking about ideas and theories I once had long ago or recently developed. I wanted to list them here together as they all tie in strongly with the being Lavos. I did not see these ideas in either of the topic pages pertaining to Lavos (The Ethics of Lavos or Lavos - Points of Interest). Honestly, if these ideas are already in someone else's thread topic, I am sorry. While I did spend most of the week reading up on most of the Compendium site, I don't think I'll be doing the same for every topic on the forums as well. So, here we are with my Second Lavos Theory.
Theory #2: Day of Destruction
Lavos only comes up out of the ground two times in Chrono Trigger. But seeing as how we never get to communicate with the being directly, we never get to really know why these events happened, and can only speculate on them. First off, I think the theory reason behind the first eruption which brought down the Kingdom of Zeal has already been covered quite well. The Kingdom of Zeal, through the Mammon Machine, were siphoning energy off Lavos to power their kingdom. For the great and massive power that is Lavos, it may be that this was a... tolerated small amount of energy that Lavos wasn't all to bothered with, or perhaps even allowed. But then as NPCs in the game even tell us, moving the Mammon Machine down to the Ocean Palace closer to Lavos would allow them to draw a far greater amount of power. Perhaps this is when the mosquito on Lavos' back finally caught its attention enough to warrant a retaliation. So Lavos erupts from the ground, does his defensive bit, and takes down the Kingdom of Zeal, which cuts off a lot of the energy drain being done.
What's missing is no one really goes into detail of why Lavos erupted upon 1999 A.D., The Day of Destruction. Now that best theory out there that most seem to like is that Lavos erupted out at that time sensing the advancement of the humans, and tried to wipe them out to get rid of a threat. I don't really like this idea because it implies a very conscience and deliberate act on Lavos' part against humans. Its one thing to attack or defend against a known or perceived threat, as it did when the Mammon Machine was moved to the Ocean Palace and drew too much energy from Lavos. It is quite another for a creature to look upon something and judge it to become a greater and future threat to oneself. This line of action suggests a far greater line of reasoning and intelligence, which would lead to Lavos being along the notion of 'evil' and not just living out a life-cycle of survival. If Lavos could judge the future high-tech world as being a threat, there is no reason why it would not have been able to do the same with Zeal when they first started to drain energy from Lavos.
My theory for the Day of Destruction is this; that the eruption upon 1999 A.D. was just a natural point in the life-cycle of the Lavos species .
Lavos was already on the planet for a very long time absorbing energy and DNA from species. My suggestion is that by 1999 A.D that Lavos already got enough DNA from creatures and thus needed them no longer. So it erupted to the surface and rained down its destruction from the heavens to clear off most or all of the surface life. Thus giving its spawn a safe place to be deposited for them to grow mostly undisturbed. This would then last until the spawn are large enough and stored enough energy for their own trips out into space, as per the exploding the planet theory of mine before covered.
Theory #2: Day of Destruction
Lavos only comes up out of the ground two times in Chrono Trigger. But seeing as how we never get to communicate with the being directly, we never get to really know why these events happened, and can only speculate on them. First off, I think the theory reason behind the first eruption which brought down the Kingdom of Zeal has already been covered quite well. The Kingdom of Zeal, through the Mammon Machine, were siphoning energy off Lavos to power their kingdom. For the great and massive power that is Lavos, it may be that this was a... tolerated small amount of energy that Lavos wasn't all to bothered with, or perhaps even allowed. But then as NPCs in the game even tell us, moving the Mammon Machine down to the Ocean Palace closer to Lavos would allow them to draw a far greater amount of power. Perhaps this is when the mosquito on Lavos' back finally caught its attention enough to warrant a retaliation. So Lavos erupts from the ground, does his defensive bit, and takes down the Kingdom of Zeal, which cuts off a lot of the energy drain being done.
What's missing is no one really goes into detail of why Lavos erupted upon 1999 A.D., The Day of Destruction. Now that best theory out there that most seem to like is that Lavos erupted out at that time sensing the advancement of the humans, and tried to wipe them out to get rid of a threat. I don't really like this idea because it implies a very conscience and deliberate act on Lavos' part against humans. Its one thing to attack or defend against a known or perceived threat, as it did when the Mammon Machine was moved to the Ocean Palace and drew too much energy from Lavos. It is quite another for a creature to look upon something and judge it to become a greater and future threat to oneself. This line of action suggests a far greater line of reasoning and intelligence, which would lead to Lavos being along the notion of 'evil' and not just living out a life-cycle of survival. If Lavos could judge the future high-tech world as being a threat, there is no reason why it would not have been able to do the same with Zeal when they first started to drain energy from Lavos.
My theory for the Day of Destruction is this; that the eruption upon 1999 A.D. was just a natural point in the life-cycle of the Lavos species .
Lavos was already on the planet for a very long time absorbing energy and DNA from species. My suggestion is that by 1999 A.D that Lavos already got enough DNA from creatures and thus needed them no longer. So it erupted to the surface and rained down its destruction from the heavens to clear off most or all of the surface life. Thus giving its spawn a safe place to be deposited for them to grow mostly undisturbed. This would then last until the spawn are large enough and stored enough energy for their own trips out into space, as per the exploding the planet theory of mine before covered.
4
Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Theory on Spreading Spawn
« on: January 28, 2012, 01:33:23 am »
First let it be known I only joined this site hours before this post, but I've spent the last week reading up on EVERY topic in Chrono Compendium's Articles and Analysis page. Like many of you, I am a long time fan of the series and find the mysteries and ideas within the games to be quite enthralling. That is a lot of go through in a short time. Thankfully, most of the concepts were things I understood very well or already assumed about the series, just perhaps not in as much deep thinking detail. In the course of reading all of that, it started my own mind thinking about ideas and theories I once had long ago or recently developed. I wanted to list them here together as they all tie in strongly with the being Lavos. I did not see these ideas in either of the topic pages pertaining to Lavos (The Ethics of Lavos or Lavos - Points of Interest). Honestly, if these ideas are already in someone else's thread topic, I am sorry. While I did spend most of the week reading up on most of the Compendium site, I don't think I'll be doing the same for every topic on the forums as well. So, here we are with my first Lavos Theory.
Theory #1: How Lavos Spreads It's Spawn
Much about what we can already guess and assume about Lavos is already covered in the Lavos - Points of Interest section. But the one aspect that is missing that I always liked to wonder about was how did Lavos get to our world, and how it will spread it's spawn back out into space. We know it came down from space, but considering it needed a planet to land on, to 'feed' energy off of, and creatures to gain DNA from to strengthen itself and/or spawn leads us to believe it came from another world itself, and didn't just evolve in space. And while Lavos seems to have enormous power and ability, there is nothing to suggest it can lift itself back up and fly off a planet. Which brings me to my old idea...
The basic idea of my theory is that in the end Lavos blows up the planet from the inside out.
We already know that Lavos can handle trips through space, as well as planetary impact. From there it begins the long process of absorbing energy and then sooner or later, start its DNA absorption phase. Eventually it creates some of the Lavos Spawn which are deposited upon the planet's surface to grow and strengthen. Since Lavos came down from space at what appears to be the same size as he is shown in later surfacing events, we could assume that the spawn most likely grow to this size while still on the planet of their creation/birth. Which means during the 2300 A.D. time on Death Peak, we are seeing Lavos Spawn that are still a long way from maturing to full growth. How long that growth takes none can say, for we have no idea how much longer the planet and time went on after 2300 A.D. No one ever really speculates as to why Lavos is so large as well. I would guess that the Lavos species grow to such a size for three reasons.
First, to be able to house a sufficient amount of energy for surviving what is likely to be eons in space till they land on a planet. This goes well with the Seed/Egg idea where most of Lavos is pretty much just a giant seed for storing energy, while a small section within has the actual being. Just like how a real seed is mostly food storage for the little living plant embryo inside to keep it alive till planted.
Second, to be large and sturdy enough to survive a planetary impact. Even in the Chrono series we see the worse that happened to Lavos was a small chunk broke off to become the Frozen Flame. There are a lot of things flying around out there in space. And as we have seen throughout the years and is evident in Earth's history as well as on other celestial bodies from craters, is that when large things collide its more power then anything mankind can accomplish, so far. Lavos is powerful, we all know that. And I suggest that its ability to survive a planet fall has a lot to do with its sheer size and shell toughness, with possibly even magical spell protections supplementing it as well. All of which is fueled by the massive amount of energy it houses within itself.
Third, again to be large enough to house a sufficient amount of energy to blow up the planet from the inside out, thus launching off the grown Lavos Spawn into space in random directions. Now many might point out that Lavos attacked the surface world at least twice in Chrono Trigger, causing massive damage but not blowing up the planet. I point out my theory is about blowing up the planet from the INSIDE. An easy concept to relate this to is a small firecracker explosive. Even a small one, when lit and left in your open palm, will cause some damage and burning. But even a small one if lit and you close your fingers around it can, and has, blown peoples' hands apart from the fast expansion of internal pressure. Now this concept sounds like suicide in a way (which is to say not sure if the act does or does not kill off the parent Lavos of the planet), but it can fit if we think of Lavos as going by survival of the species and procreation as its goal. After all, its not an unknown in the living world to give up one's self for the continued sake of the species.
I submit that this is likely a good method for how the Lavos species works. Considering a full grown Lavos can already survive impact from space as well as live within the planet's core, it is an easy thing to say they can survive a planet-sized scale explosion too.
Theory #1: How Lavos Spreads It's Spawn
Much about what we can already guess and assume about Lavos is already covered in the Lavos - Points of Interest section. But the one aspect that is missing that I always liked to wonder about was how did Lavos get to our world, and how it will spread it's spawn back out into space. We know it came down from space, but considering it needed a planet to land on, to 'feed' energy off of, and creatures to gain DNA from to strengthen itself and/or spawn leads us to believe it came from another world itself, and didn't just evolve in space. And while Lavos seems to have enormous power and ability, there is nothing to suggest it can lift itself back up and fly off a planet. Which brings me to my old idea...
The basic idea of my theory is that in the end Lavos blows up the planet from the inside out.
We already know that Lavos can handle trips through space, as well as planetary impact. From there it begins the long process of absorbing energy and then sooner or later, start its DNA absorption phase. Eventually it creates some of the Lavos Spawn which are deposited upon the planet's surface to grow and strengthen. Since Lavos came down from space at what appears to be the same size as he is shown in later surfacing events, we could assume that the spawn most likely grow to this size while still on the planet of their creation/birth. Which means during the 2300 A.D. time on Death Peak, we are seeing Lavos Spawn that are still a long way from maturing to full growth. How long that growth takes none can say, for we have no idea how much longer the planet and time went on after 2300 A.D. No one ever really speculates as to why Lavos is so large as well. I would guess that the Lavos species grow to such a size for three reasons.
First, to be able to house a sufficient amount of energy for surviving what is likely to be eons in space till they land on a planet. This goes well with the Seed/Egg idea where most of Lavos is pretty much just a giant seed for storing energy, while a small section within has the actual being. Just like how a real seed is mostly food storage for the little living plant embryo inside to keep it alive till planted.
Second, to be large and sturdy enough to survive a planetary impact. Even in the Chrono series we see the worse that happened to Lavos was a small chunk broke off to become the Frozen Flame. There are a lot of things flying around out there in space. And as we have seen throughout the years and is evident in Earth's history as well as on other celestial bodies from craters, is that when large things collide its more power then anything mankind can accomplish, so far. Lavos is powerful, we all know that. And I suggest that its ability to survive a planet fall has a lot to do with its sheer size and shell toughness, with possibly even magical spell protections supplementing it as well. All of which is fueled by the massive amount of energy it houses within itself.
Third, again to be large enough to house a sufficient amount of energy to blow up the planet from the inside out, thus launching off the grown Lavos Spawn into space in random directions. Now many might point out that Lavos attacked the surface world at least twice in Chrono Trigger, causing massive damage but not blowing up the planet. I point out my theory is about blowing up the planet from the INSIDE. An easy concept to relate this to is a small firecracker explosive. Even a small one, when lit and left in your open palm, will cause some damage and burning. But even a small one if lit and you close your fingers around it can, and has, blown peoples' hands apart from the fast expansion of internal pressure. Now this concept sounds like suicide in a way (which is to say not sure if the act does or does not kill off the parent Lavos of the planet), but it can fit if we think of Lavos as going by survival of the species and procreation as its goal. After all, its not an unknown in the living world to give up one's self for the continued sake of the species.
I submit that this is likely a good method for how the Lavos species works. Considering a full grown Lavos can already survive impact from space as well as live within the planet's core, it is an easy thing to say they can survive a planet-sized scale explosion too.
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