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Messages - Arc Impulse

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1
"No" would have been fine. But to say that it's all becoming increasingly unprofessional—how? This forum bans hardly anyone. Is it because the administration takes part in religious debates in General Discussion? Is it because I criticize inane criticisms of Chrono Cross? This website is brutally effective. Things ultimately get done. I'm somehow not allowed to flame 1UP because all of this? I know that other administrators like to sit back and rest in a cult of personality or make people do work for them, but that's not my style. My own direct intervention and activity is responsible for a lot of things here, and that means I'm always going to have an upfront and personal perspective.
Yes, you do a lot of stuff for this site.  And that's exactly why the way you behave matters so much.  You are the face of the Chrono Compendium, it's your baby.  At least in my personal experience, when people outside of the Compendium think about the site, they're mostly thinking about you.  You're the one who goes around to other people's message boards, Gamefaqs or OCR or wherever, doing stuff for the site and representing the site.  You're the face of the site.  When you act poorly or unprofessionally in public for everyone to see, it reflects badly on the whole community that is the Compendium.  When you have an attitude that other Chrono sites are inferior to yours and express it openly and derisively, it reflects badly on the Compendium.  When you let differences of opinion about the quality of Chrono Cross -- which at the end of the day, I might remind you, is still just a video game -- devolve into namecalling, insults, and flipping people the bird, it reflects badly on the Compendium.

If you want to have the best Chrono site on the internet -- not just the one with the most stuff and the most analysis, but the one people respect and consider it worth their time to visit -- you have to act the part.  There's nothing wrong with any of us having our opinions in private, of course; frankly I think those guys dissing you is pretty childish and stupid on their part too.  But the front page of your site is not the place to vent about them.

2
Edit: Since the gauntlet's down here:

Quote
Stay classy, Zeality. :D

Is it "classy" to outright ignore my simple e-mail from 2006 asking if you're still interested in translating things, which was complete with a disclaimer that we're completely understanding if you don't have enough free time and appreciative of the few things you had already translated?
To be honest, I don't remember receiving an email like that -- if it was 2006, I was in Japan and spent several months not knowing my ISP email address had been canceled back home, so it's possible it never got to me at all.  But it's also possible I just forgot to reply, so that's my bad.

Nevertheless, to be perfectly frank with you, I probably would have told you no.  I've been lurking at the Compendium for a lot of years, and over that time I've only had the opportunity to watch your behavior with regard to the site and with regard to the Chrono series become increasingly unprofessional.  As Geiger pointed out earlier, such a hostile atmosphere inevitably drives people away.  You shoot yourself in the foot with this stuff.

Edit: And I might add, Parish's behavior, 1up's behavior, whoever else's bad behavior is not an excuse.  By posting things like this you don't disprove anything -- all you do is feed into their preconceived image of you and give more weight to their insults when they do things like call you "insane".  You are helping make people believe them.

3
Stay classy, Zeality.   :D

4
lol, long reply is long.

Arc, you have hugely made some progress here, so the Compendium thanks you from the bottom of its collective heart. From the Japanese translation, it is clear that:

1. Time's Eclipse is just a translation bastardization; it really is the Darkness Beyond Time we're dealing with here.
2. The issue of whether Eclipse Magus traveled with Crono & Co. in his dimension is still vague.
3. There is less evidence in the Japanese translation that Schala actively erases anyone's memories. She doesn't say anything like "dwell not on this," and Eclipse Magus apparently erases his own memories ("throw away" is much more active than "abandon.") However, Eclipse Magus still notes that the Dream Devourer has the capability of devouring memories. However, the preponderance of the evidence shows that Eclipse Magus commits existential suicide.

You're very welcome :)

Re point 2, I think the Japanese version all but explicitly tells us that Eclipse Magus did indeed join up with Crono's party.  The fact that he says "we" defeated Lavos -- in a language where you only bother using the plural when you're making a specific point -- and the line about "I don't know whether I joined up with you guys in your world" heavily implies "but I did join up with you in my world."  To me this seems like the biggest oversight in the English adaptation -- the translator/adaptor got all caught up in making Magus sound all kewl and philosophical and deep as they consistently do throughout CTDS, and accidentally obscured this specific fact in the process.

Also re 3, if the specific verb is important to you, I should note that what he says in Japanese is "nagedasu" --  this can be translated as 'throw away', 'abandon', 'sacrifice', 'throw down', etc.  The literal imagery in the word is to cast something or toss something away from you -- 'nageru' is the same word you use to describe throwing a baseball, for example.  I'm not sure if it's possible to really determine his intent from this single word; the connotations of it aren't really the same as 'throw away' vs 'abandon' in English, as you can see.


Yeah, I don't know why they call it Time's Eclipse...although that's a cool name...
'時の闇' means Time's Darkness in literal or we say The Darkness of Time.

It seems the translator even didn't take CC's script into consideration?

I really, really don't think they consulted CC, for serious :/

My feeling is the translator wasn't too worried about the consistency issue and just picked Time's Eclipse because it sounded neat.  You can say that when there's an eclipse, it gets dark after all, lol.  They probably just didn't realize that the name Darkness of Time has a specific meaning in the series.


All my predictions/analysations still hold true? Interesting...

Arc, did you notice anything else that might be interesting? If so, please tell us.

Also, the Schala-fanboy in me wants to know what she says if you lose that battle.
I'll check on Schala's dialogue if you lose here in a bit, though judging by what she says in the English version, I doubt it will be much of anything interesting :(

I'm not sure what you're looking for in the way of interesting things I noticed, but in terms of trying to figure out just who Eclipse Magus is/where or when he's from, I find it interesting that he consistently calls himself "ore" in the way of a first-person pronoun.  I haven't played through the entirety of CTDS in Japanese, but I think it's safe to say they didn't rewrite the entire game, and when I played the SFC version Magus consistently referred to himself as "watashi" 99.9% of the time.  There's a single scene where he calls himself "ore", and it has a great dramatic impact -- it's in the Ocean Palace, when the Mammon Machine summons forth Lavos, right before Crono gets killed.  Magus tries to take his revenge and talks about how he's lived for nothing but defeating Lavos, and that particular point is the only part of the game where he refers to himself with the aggressive-sounding "ore" rather than the very neutral "watashi".


Is it just me, or did Magus' encounter with Schala reawaken his "Janus" personality? To me it seems like he sarcastically refers to himself post-Zeal (after becoming Magus) as "myself", indicating that this isn't the true him.

And yes, I have seen what she said in the English version, I just want to know what she originally said.
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, but don't read too much into my quotation marks -- I added those for readability in English, nothing more.  There's nothing to imply sarcasm in the Japanese.  (Indeed, Japanese does not really have sarcasm as a concept at all, to tell the truth.)

5
It would make sense if that were the case, lol, but I still can't imagine how the verb got adopted into common usage as a noun :lol:  I guess languages are just weird and interesting like that.

6
Eh, I don't know, as far as characterization goes I've always thought that what Katou did with Schala in CC and now in CTDS was pretty OOC and weak.  But that's that and this is canon.

7
Nope, definitely two different things.  Talk about a confusing rename.

Literally it says "doragon piasu" which is katakana English for 'dragon pierce', but a "pierce" in Japanese, for whatever reason, is an earring.  One of the more mysterious Japanese loanwords...

8
Can anyone tell me if my text dump attempt is right? It looks about the same as in-game, but I'm not sure.

Quote
ドラゴンピアス
This should be the Japanese name for the Dragon Tear in CTDS.
I checked my copy of the game and yeah, this seems to be the Japanese equivalent.  It means "Dragon Earring" :/

9
I might have, lol.  I seem to remember doing something involving the final battle with Azala, but that's been forever ago, oh man.

10
Long time no see, Compendium.  (I'd be surprised if anyone actually remembers me here except for maybe Zeality, lol.)

I just finished getting through the new ending in CTDS today in English, and then out of curiosity I decided to replay it in Japanese to see if there were any significant differences in the script.  As you might expect for a game translation in this day and age, there wasn't really anything huge, but there were a few factual nuances that I thought people might find interesting so I figured I'd post a transcript/translation.


First of all, Time's Eclipse in the Japanese version is called "Toki no Yami" = The Darkness of Time.  O SNAP.


The full text of the Eclipse scenario and ending follows:
(note, I had Magus in my fighting party, but as far as I can tell all the lines below are spoken by future!Magus and not by party!Magus.)


???「ここには、もうラヴォスはいない。
ここはすでにラヴォスが倒された
未来の時空だ。
俺たちがヤツを滅ぼした。

???: Lavos is no longer here.
This is a future timespace where
Lavos has already been defeated.
We destroyed him.
[I find it curious that this future(?) Magus refers to himself throughout this ending as 'ore'--
Magus in the rest of CT refers to himself as 'watashi' everywhere but a single scene.]


Magus「もっとも、お前たちが
やってきた世界で
俺たちが手を組んでいたかどうかは
知らぬがな。

Magus: Although I don't know
whether or not I joined forces
with you, in the world you come from.
[He said this to me with Magus in my party, so I assume he says the same thing no matter what.]

世界は、せんたくの数だけ存在する。

There are as many worlds out there as there are choices.

Magus「この先で、新たな敵が
生まれようとしている。
この先に広がる、時の闇の底で。

Magus: Beyond [this Gate], a new
enemy is trying to come into being.
In the deepest depths of the Darkness
of Time beyond this point.

人の記憶を、夢を、想いを
喰らおうとしている...。

It's trying to devour people's
memories, their dreams, their thoughts...

Magus「俺のジャマをするな。
お前たちはそこで見ているがいい...。

Magus: Don't get in my way.
You just stay there and watch...


((blah blah, Magus fights DD, sucks at it))


Magus「クッ...
ま、まだだ......。

Magus: Ungh...
Not--  not yet...

((the party enters.  In my party of Crono/Magus/Marle nothing interesting was said))

Magus「ジャマはするなと
言ったはずだ...。

Magus: I told you not to get in my way...

サラ「なにもかも、消えてしまえばいい。
失われてしまえばいい......!

Schala: Everything should just disappear.
It should all be lost forever...!

Magus「ダメだ!目を覚ませ!
目を覚ましてくれ......、サラ......!

Magus: No, don't!  Open your eyes!
Please, wake up...  Schala...!
['open your eyes/wake up' have the same metaphorical meaning in Japanese as they do in English -- he's begging her to break free of Lavos's influence.]

誰か「あ、あぶない!!

Somebody in the party: Look out!

((more boring messages from the party here))

サラ「滅びなさい、すべてのものよ!!

Schala: Let all things perish!!


((DD battle goes here.  Moment of editorializing: was pathetically easy at lvl 60 once I equipped status immunity items.))


Magus「ダメだ!
いけない、サラ......!

Magus: No, don't!
You can't do this, Schala...!

Magus「くッ......! 姉上!

Magus: Ungh...!  Schala!
[he actually says 'ane-ue', i.e. "big sister".  This is what Janus/Jyaki always calls her in the JP version.]

Magus「あ、姉上......?

Magus: S--  Schala...?

サラ「いずれ私の意識は、
完全にラヴォスに
飲み込まれてしまうでしょう。

Schala: Sooner or later, my
consciousness will probably be
completely swallowed up by
Lavos.

絶望と悲しみの底で、
すべてを消し去ることを......
自分を消し去ってしまうことさえ
望んだのは、私自身なのだから......。

Because I myself was the one who,
in deepest grief and despair,
wished that everything...  that even
my own existence would be erased...

サラ「いまのあなた方のちからでは、
私を解放することは不可能です。

Schala: All of you -- with your power
as it stands now, it's impossible for
you to free me.
[Note that she's specifically speaking in the plural, addressing the party as well as Magus.]

いえ、むしろ、
ちからに頼っている限り、
あなた方には世界の絶望も悲しみも、
いやすことはできないものです。

No, rather--
For as long as you rely on power,
none of you can heal this world's
grief, or its despair.

さあ、いまは、自分たちの時代に
おもどりなさい。

For now...  back to your own eras
with all of you.

Magus「姉上......。

Magus: Schala...

サラ「ジャキ......、ありがとう。
私は、もう以前の私ではないの......。
あなたは、強く生きて......。

Schala: Janus...  thank you.
I'm not the same person that I was before...
Please, live on and be strong*...
[*literally "live strongly".
In this part, she talks in an informal style, and her speech almost sounds like the slang of a perfectly normal girl...
you can really feel her love for Janus in this bit, I think.]


Magus「姉上!?

Magus: Schala!?

サラ「さようなら......

Schala: Goodbye...
[a formal "sayounara", which hints that she expects never to see him again.]

Magus「姉上ーッ!

Magus: Schala--!!

Magus「俺の力では、どうあっても
かなわぬというのか?

Magus: Do you really mean to say that
with my power, no matter what happens
it will never be enough?

ならば、俺という存在に、
これからの俺の日々に
いったいどんな意味があると
いうのか......?

If that's the way it is, just
what meaning could there
ever be in my existence, or
in my days to come?

Magus「フッ、いいだろう......。
ならば、俺もすべてを投げ出して
消え去ってしまうとしよう。

Magus: Heh...  very well, then...
If that's how it is, I too will
throw away everything and
disappear.

それでもまだ何かが残り、俺という
存在が続いていくというのならば......
その時こそ新たな何かが生まれ、
始まるのだろう。

And if even then, something still remains--
if some part of this being I call "myself" still
keeps existing...
Maybe then it will be possible for something
new to be born, to begin.


((Cue Magus poofing into the darkness, then reawakening in Random Forest A.))


ここは......?

うっ......

Where...?

Unh...

俺は......俺は、だれなんだ?
何も思い出せない......。
いったい、何がどうなっている......?

I......  Who--  Who am I?
I can't remember anything...
What in the world is going on...?

俺には、何か、どうしてもやらなくては
いけないことが......、見つけ出さなくては
ならないものがあった......はずだ。

There was something I...  had to do...
no matter what...
Something I had to find...
I'm sure of it.

それを、なんとしても取り戻してみせる。
きっと、な。
No matter what happens, I'll get it back again.
No matter what.



And that's that.  Like I said, not a lot different, but it's evident that the translator wasn't too worried about preserving nuance.

11
General Discussion / Translation stuff, again.
« on: May 13, 2005, 06:24:57 am »
O_O  Stuff to do.  eep.

In case anybody cares, I just thought you might like to know I'm still alive.  >_>;;;  I've been insanely busy in recent months; I'm studying as an exchange student in Tokyo, so I apologize for the prolonged absence.

The place certainly got a facelift while I was away...  egads.

12
Polling / 2/19/05 - If you had a CT element, which one would it be?
« on: February 18, 2005, 02:09:16 pm »
Magus may be my favorite character, but judging by my name, you can guess the sort of techs I think are cooler.  ;)  I voted for Lightning/Heaven.  Luminaire is a beautiful, beautiful thing.

13
Polling / 2/12/05 - What was the most dramatic moment in the series?
« on: February 08, 2005, 03:22:24 am »
There are many, many scenes in the games which moved me.  (For the poll's purposes I voted for Frog unleashing the Masamune.  That scene always gives me goosebumps.)  But the one that comes instantly to my mind when I think of memorable Chrono scenes is in the Japanese version of Chrono Trigger, when Magus reveals himself to confront Lavos at the Ocean Palace.  The English version of this scene, which of course I saw first, was very moving too, but it's the Japanese version that stands out in my mind--the way the quiet Magus lets loose the full force of his anger and his sheer hatred on Lavos, discarding the neutral, polite way he normally refers to himself, "watashi", in favor of the angry, aggressive "ore".  It really conveys the depth of his feeling and how much of himself he's willing to let loose, if he's only able to defeat this creature.  Such a huge change for such a normally inward-centered, self-contained person.  I used to have that line in my sig, the first time he refers to himself as "ore".  When I first read it in the game it gave me the chills.

My third choice would probably be the resurrection scene.  I think that image of Crono lying under the single tree at the top of Death Peak will go down as one of the great iconic moments of video game history.  And also, well, the game was named after it. X3;

14
General Discussion / The Facebook
« on: January 31, 2005, 06:47:21 pm »
Mm, this is just for the big colleges, right?  I go to school in the middle of nowhere X3; so sadly I can't participate.

Maybe they'll add more state universities as time goes on...

15
General Discussion / Japanese Script?
« on: January 31, 2005, 05:20:45 pm »
GameFAQs makes me sad ever since they went all corporate.  I used to frequent the CT section over there, but I rarely visit anymore.

I remember somebody was talking about making an FAQ out of Hyena's translation thread.  I don't know if they ever actually did.

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