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General Discussion / GameFAQs Spring 2004 Game Contest
« on: March 02, 2004, 09:47:27 pm »
Heh, lots of thoughts, I have on this, but really only one pertaining to here:
I like what Ceej did with Chrono Trigger. I mean, I like it a lot. 2 Mario games in CT's division, and CT will have to take Super Mario Bros 3 in the semis, most likely. Great job, ceej, I'm sure no one remembers the hell Crono vs Mario has caused in the last 2 years. -_-
I like what Ceej did with Chrono Trigger. I mean, I like it a lot. 2 Mario games in CT's division, and CT will have to take Super Mario Bros 3 in the semis, most likely. Great job, ceej, I'm sure no one remembers the hell Crono vs Mario has caused in the last 2 years. -_-
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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Criticism of Sea of Eden/Dead Sea FAQ
« on: February 10, 2004, 07:47:16 pm »
Actually, I didn't ignore them, I just didn't have time to hit them when I posted last time. Too much to do at the moment, as I noted in that post. However, the day you posted the reply, I actually had started typing out my response, but never finished, so I didn't bother posting it. A few days later when I posted the last post I did before this one, my mind had changed somewhat, and I didn't feel completely comfortable with what I had written. However, in view of the fact that I'm still insanely busy, and can't really contribute much more to this discussion for the time being, I will leave you what I had typed originally, but know that after putting some thought into it, my views changed somewhat, and some of what I say here may be incompatible with what I typed in response to the Porre's Mayor situation.
Of course, and I believe I was unclear. However, I'll hold off on correcting myself just yet, that'll come later in this post.
Then why would Marle disappear? Indeed, if travelers are shielded from the changes in their own past, Marle should be alive and well regardless of how many of her ancestors she indirectly axes.
I don't believe it has a need to be. Nowhere else is the simplified grandfather paradox used. Of course, if we are to go by the exact definition of the grandfather paradox as provided by you, time cannot change at all! This is because I believe we both agree that the time loop is out of the question, and it would seem that if you are correct about each change resulting in the creation of a new dimension and the old dimension being sent to the Darkness Beyond Time, we would have to have the exact same Marle go back and effect the change in 600AD, which is impossible because for one, Marle doesn't even exist in the new dimensions, and two, the Marle who originally created the time irregularity is now gone into nothingness, along with the former dimension. Unless I missed something (please feel free to correct me if I did), we're now in a situation very similar to the time loop.
Quote from: GrayLensman
The temporal inertia theory requires that changes to the timeline only appear after some interval of time. Slowly and not-instantly have the same meaning in this context.
Of course, and I believe I was unclear. However, I'll hold off on correcting myself just yet, that'll come later in this post.
Quote from: GrayLensman
The events of Chrono Trigger and Cross require that changes to the past creates a new, distinct timeline, and that time travelers are shielded to changes to their own pasts.
Then why would Marle disappear? Indeed, if travelers are shielded from the changes in their own past, Marle should be alive and well regardless of how many of her ancestors she indirectly axes.
Quote from: GrayLensman
You cite the example of Marle's disappearance, because this theory was specifically tailored to explain that event, but temporal inertia cannot be applied to any other instance of time travel in the series.
I don't believe it has a need to be. Nowhere else is the simplified grandfather paradox used. Of course, if we are to go by the exact definition of the grandfather paradox as provided by you, time cannot change at all! This is because I believe we both agree that the time loop is out of the question, and it would seem that if you are correct about each change resulting in the creation of a new dimension and the old dimension being sent to the Darkness Beyond Time, we would have to have the exact same Marle go back and effect the change in 600AD, which is impossible because for one, Marle doesn't even exist in the new dimensions, and two, the Marle who originally created the time irregularity is now gone into nothingness, along with the former dimension. Unless I missed something (please feel free to correct me if I did), we're now in a situation very similar to the time loop.
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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Criticism of Sea of Eden/Dead Sea FAQ
« on: February 09, 2004, 08:14:42 pm »
Sorry for the late reply, I haven't been able to be online as much as I'd like to be. Indeed, I still don't have much time, as after I'm done here it's off to a pep band game, then AP English and History homework the rest of the night. So unfortunately, I don't have time to give your argument the response it deserves, but I will address your last point.
I think the difference is that in the Porre Mayor situation, Crono takes action, and then the action manifests itself immediately, as it should. However, in the Marle situation, once she goes back into the past, she has not yet taken the action that causes her to disappear (we know this because she doesn't disappear until after meeting with Crono), and so Crono has however long it takes for her to disappear to get back to the past, where, if Temporal Inertia is correct, he will be temporarily protected from the changes in the timeline (though those changes will automatically be enacted in 1000AD, according to temporal inertia, they won't affect him in 600AD immediately). This also works for Lucca, since she appears almost exactly after Marle disappears. Had she waited another, say, 2 minutes before leaving 1000AD, she would've been affected by the time change, and been unable to go back in time. Once the two of them are there, the timeline is still working to correct itself, and they have whatever amount of time before the timeline collapses to save the queen and restore the time flow back to normal.
There is, however, one problem with this, though I don't believe it's a problem with the theory as much as just Square not having a valid reason for what they do. It seems strange that Marle disappears at the exact time Crono goes upstairs to talk to her. What suddenly changed? If we are truly working under the simplified grandfather paradox, shouldn't she have either disappeared as soon as she was found in 600AD, or after Leene was killed? That is, admittedly, something that will have to be worked out for the Temporal Inertia theory to be considered even a valid possibility, or for that matter, any theory saying that Marle's disappearance was temporal, as opposed to what I believe is the main theory here, that Marle was taken out of the time stream by the Entity.
Quote from: GrayLensman
This explanation contradicts every other event in the games. When the Porre Mayor's ancestor is given the jerky, he is instantly changed. There is no waiting period. If the grandfather paradox applies to the Chrono universe, Magus' escapades in Zeal as the Prophet become impossible, as well as every other instance of time travel.
I think the difference is that in the Porre Mayor situation, Crono takes action, and then the action manifests itself immediately, as it should. However, in the Marle situation, once she goes back into the past, she has not yet taken the action that causes her to disappear (we know this because she doesn't disappear until after meeting with Crono), and so Crono has however long it takes for her to disappear to get back to the past, where, if Temporal Inertia is correct, he will be temporarily protected from the changes in the timeline (though those changes will automatically be enacted in 1000AD, according to temporal inertia, they won't affect him in 600AD immediately). This also works for Lucca, since she appears almost exactly after Marle disappears. Had she waited another, say, 2 minutes before leaving 1000AD, she would've been affected by the time change, and been unable to go back in time. Once the two of them are there, the timeline is still working to correct itself, and they have whatever amount of time before the timeline collapses to save the queen and restore the time flow back to normal.
There is, however, one problem with this, though I don't believe it's a problem with the theory as much as just Square not having a valid reason for what they do. It seems strange that Marle disappears at the exact time Crono goes upstairs to talk to her. What suddenly changed? If we are truly working under the simplified grandfather paradox, shouldn't she have either disappeared as soon as she was found in 600AD, or after Leene was killed? That is, admittedly, something that will have to be worked out for the Temporal Inertia theory to be considered even a valid possibility, or for that matter, any theory saying that Marle's disappearance was temporal, as opposed to what I believe is the main theory here, that Marle was taken out of the time stream by the Entity.
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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Criticism of Sea of Eden/Dead Sea FAQ
« on: February 05, 2004, 10:25:11 pm »
Hm, I'm not certain, but I believe you misunderstand the temportal inertia theory. Temporal inertia does not state that the entire timeline changes slowly, as you suggested, but rather, in situations relating to the grandfather paradox (i.e. anything that you do in the past that causes you to be unable to either exist/travel back in time at the point you do later in history), we don't see the changes affected in that particular time zone instantly. The best example is what jason79 used when he wrote the theory, the Marle situation at the beginning of the game. When Marle goes back into the past and prevents her ancestor from being saved, she disappears as a result of that, which means we absolutely know that the grandfather paradox is in effect. According to traditional theory on this situation, we know that either (1) time will either go into an infinite loop or collapse from the stress of the paradox, or (2) a new dimension will split off from the original, so we in effect have two dimensions, one where Marle exists, the other where she doesn't.
However, we know that neither is the case. Obviously, time did not loop or collapse, and if the changes created by Marle were instantaneous and created a new dimension, we now have issues, as we have to assume that every change in the past, which directly conflicts with what Belthasar later says about dimensional split in Cross (that to split the dimensions actually has nothing to do with changes in the past, but rather is only effected by change by an outside entity. In Cross's case, it is Schala's interference that gives Serge a 50/50 chance of life and death, and splits the dimension).
So operating from the assumption that Trigger is logically valid, we have to find a reason why time does not go into a temporal loop. The easiest solution is temporal inertia. Notice that when Crono goes back to 600AD, he comes after Marle does but before the search for the Queen has time to affect it's course that eventually leads to the temporal loop. This tells us that the portals are "aging" for lack of a better word, and that each portal is not linked to an exact time, but rather starts at a certain time, and continues through time aftewards. This is proved undoubtedly by the fact that once the kindgom of zeal is destroyed, Crono can never go back to the point before it was destroyed. Every time you visit the dark ages after that, you are taken to post-destruction dark ages.
So while Lucca and Crono are trying to figure out what's going on, Marle is being found by the soldiers, and the search for Leene is called off. Crono warps back, and finds Marle, and then she disappears. The reason Marle disappears while Crono does not is because she is directly related to the events, while Crono and Lucca are only indirectly related. In other words, imagine time as a straight line, with us having an omniscient view. We see Leene have a daughter, then the daughter have a daughter, and onward similarly, until Marle is born. Then 16 years later (that -is- how old she is, correct? In any case, it's just a minor detail, and doesn't substantially affect the theory), we see her meet Crono. The only logical assumption we can make is that the time change is not instantaneous, or Crono would never be able to go to 600AD at all! So when Marle disappears, but Crono does not, we know that the time change affects her sooner, because she is more closely related to the changes. Whatever speed the changes are made at, we know that 380-some years-worth of changes have already been affected in the timeline, and that after the final 17 years before Marle would meet Crono have passed in changes, we will be stuck in the time loop.
However, this does not happen. Crono manages to save Leene before his time is up, and so he does not disappear. This sets everything in the timeline back correctly, and Marle is restored. Even at this point, we are given more proof that the changes in time are not made instantaneously, as Marle is not waiting for Crono and Lucca upstairs, but actually reappears around the same time Crono comes up the stairs. Had the time change been instantaneous, she would've re-appeared as soon as Crono defeated Yakra.
So while Crono does not disappear and a time crisis is averted, we know that eventually, had he not saved the Queen in time, he would've disappeared as well. However long it takes for the final 16 years of changes to affect the past is how long Crono has. He is able to resist change longer than Marle, but ultimately, neither he nor Lucca is immune to the time change.
...I typed this as a stream of conciousness, using jason79's original theory as a guide. That being said, I may have been unclear on a few things, or not addressed a large problem. If this is the case, let me know, and I'll be sure to address whatever I missed in my next post.
However, we know that neither is the case. Obviously, time did not loop or collapse, and if the changes created by Marle were instantaneous and created a new dimension, we now have issues, as we have to assume that every change in the past, which directly conflicts with what Belthasar later says about dimensional split in Cross (that to split the dimensions actually has nothing to do with changes in the past, but rather is only effected by change by an outside entity. In Cross's case, it is Schala's interference that gives Serge a 50/50 chance of life and death, and splits the dimension).
So operating from the assumption that Trigger is logically valid, we have to find a reason why time does not go into a temporal loop. The easiest solution is temporal inertia. Notice that when Crono goes back to 600AD, he comes after Marle does but before the search for the Queen has time to affect it's course that eventually leads to the temporal loop. This tells us that the portals are "aging" for lack of a better word, and that each portal is not linked to an exact time, but rather starts at a certain time, and continues through time aftewards. This is proved undoubtedly by the fact that once the kindgom of zeal is destroyed, Crono can never go back to the point before it was destroyed. Every time you visit the dark ages after that, you are taken to post-destruction dark ages.
So while Lucca and Crono are trying to figure out what's going on, Marle is being found by the soldiers, and the search for Leene is called off. Crono warps back, and finds Marle, and then she disappears. The reason Marle disappears while Crono does not is because she is directly related to the events, while Crono and Lucca are only indirectly related. In other words, imagine time as a straight line, with us having an omniscient view. We see Leene have a daughter, then the daughter have a daughter, and onward similarly, until Marle is born. Then 16 years later (that -is- how old she is, correct? In any case, it's just a minor detail, and doesn't substantially affect the theory), we see her meet Crono. The only logical assumption we can make is that the time change is not instantaneous, or Crono would never be able to go to 600AD at all! So when Marle disappears, but Crono does not, we know that the time change affects her sooner, because she is more closely related to the changes. Whatever speed the changes are made at, we know that 380-some years-worth of changes have already been affected in the timeline, and that after the final 17 years before Marle would meet Crono have passed in changes, we will be stuck in the time loop.
However, this does not happen. Crono manages to save Leene before his time is up, and so he does not disappear. This sets everything in the timeline back correctly, and Marle is restored. Even at this point, we are given more proof that the changes in time are not made instantaneously, as Marle is not waiting for Crono and Lucca upstairs, but actually reappears around the same time Crono comes up the stairs. Had the time change been instantaneous, she would've re-appeared as soon as Crono defeated Yakra.
So while Crono does not disappear and a time crisis is averted, we know that eventually, had he not saved the Queen in time, he would've disappeared as well. However long it takes for the final 16 years of changes to affect the past is how long Crono has. He is able to resist change longer than Marle, but ultimately, neither he nor Lucca is immune to the time change.
...I typed this as a stream of conciousness, using jason79's original theory as a guide. That being said, I may have been unclear on a few things, or not addressed a large problem. If this is the case, let me know, and I'll be sure to address whatever I missed in my next post.
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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Criticism of Sea of Eden/Dead Sea FAQ
« on: February 04, 2004, 08:30:42 pm »Quote
VIIIa. Temporal Intertia
Disproven by several instances of time travel in Chrono Trigger.
Like when? All I've seen of your opinions on temporal inertia is that you think there are other possibilities, but perhaps I am mistaken, or perhaps I've missed you disproving it in another thread. Anyway, post a few, if you don't mind, I'd be interested in seeing these events that disprove the temporal inertia theory.
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Characters, Plot, and Themes / Serge's origin / Kid vs. Leena
« on: January 18, 2004, 11:17:07 pm »
I believe that Serge's life after the adventure falls into what Schala is talking about rather well. When she says that he'll be able to live his own life, I believe she means he'll finally be able to make his own choices. As Lucca tells us, Belthasar plans the entire adventure, from step one to the end when they fight the Time Devourer. Serge is merely Belthasar's pawn, used to save the world. His life so far has been limited by the situation he is placed in, (being Arbiter and the main guy of Belthasar's plan), and so it would seem that his choices would also be limited in a similar manner. Now with the plan over, and FATE, the Dragons, and the Time Devourer destroyed, Serge is finally free to live his own life. It is quite possible that his being with Leena is just a bi-product of his circumstances, and now that he finally has a completely free will, his choice of romantic interest will change as well. His love for Kid is also hinted at on many occasions, the easiest to reference being the boat flashback, before Harle leaves.
I'm also in agreement with One That Was that Harle is a better person for a love triangle, though I believe that when comparing them to the FF7 triangle, Harle is almost definitely Tifa. Tifa, after all, is the one who loves Cloud, and has known him since childhood, but is ignored once Aeris comes along. Harle is in a similar situation. She has feelings for Serge, but because of Kid, those feelings are not returned in the same way. She remains a flirt, but there is really no serious spark of a romantic situation between the two of them (just as there most likely would not have been for Tifa and Cloud if Aeris had not died). While Aeris and Harle do share some traits (both are "different" from everyone else, and have different duties because of that. Aeris, being an Ancient, attempts to save the world by summoning Holy, while Harle is doing her best to fix the world without having a major war between the humans, dragons, and FATE), but for the purposes of the love triangle, I believe Harle is closest in function to Tifa, and Kid is Aeris.
I'm also in agreement with One That Was that Harle is a better person for a love triangle, though I believe that when comparing them to the FF7 triangle, Harle is almost definitely Tifa. Tifa, after all, is the one who loves Cloud, and has known him since childhood, but is ignored once Aeris comes along. Harle is in a similar situation. She has feelings for Serge, but because of Kid, those feelings are not returned in the same way. She remains a flirt, but there is really no serious spark of a romantic situation between the two of them (just as there most likely would not have been for Tifa and Cloud if Aeris had not died). While Aeris and Harle do share some traits (both are "different" from everyone else, and have different duties because of that. Aeris, being an Ancient, attempts to save the world by summoning Holy, while Harle is doing her best to fix the world without having a major war between the humans, dragons, and FATE), but for the purposes of the love triangle, I believe Harle is closest in function to Tifa, and Kid is Aeris.
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Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Portals in the year 1000
« on: January 07, 2004, 08:23:43 pm »
...ah, and one other thing. I tend to be with Pierre on the subject of divine choice vs ragtag group of chance. It just seems more realistic that way. While I will concede that Lavos is very unlikely to have created the portals (the only two he creates are unstable), it still seems unlikely that the planet/entity would need the humans to take care of Lavos. If the Entity could create time portals, why not just send Lavos a billion years into the future? Indeed, we are assuming that the entity as described in the campfire discussion is a sentient being, which it may not even be. Since the discussion it just a bunch of suppositions, we can guess as to the nature of the entity, but we really can't know for sure.
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Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Portals in the year 1000
« on: January 07, 2004, 08:18:10 pm »
Hm... not a lot to add, though I read everything. I'll say that generally I agree with Zeality and CTF on this, but I do have one question/comment. At what point does the game name Crono as a Chrono Trigger? I've never seen anything remotely related to that in either game. In addition, Lynx calls Serge "the Chrono Trigger", implying that there is only one. This of course brings up whether there's a difference between Serge as a Chrono Trigger and the Chrono Trigger item itself. We know that the item could restore parts of lost timelines, what would Serge's roll be, outside of being connected to the Frozen Flame?
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Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Portals in the year 1000
« on: January 04, 2004, 08:10:15 pm »Quote
and the Entity didn't actually pull Chronopolis through time - that was the result of an experiment by Belthasar and the people of Chronopolis themselves. As far as I know, the Entity went to rest after Chrono Trigger, and the only semi-divine influences present in Cross were Schala, from the Tesseract, and FATE, who controlled El Nido.
...and the planet, as well. Chronopolis is thrown back in time, and at the same time Lavos pulls back the frozen flame, which just happens to be the reason Chronopolis is getting thrown back in time. The planet, to counteract Chronopolis, pulls Dinopolis from an alternate dimension. Cross seems to hint that the entity is the planet, but as I stated in the last post, I find that unlikely. The humans are displayed as being the progeny of Lavos, and enemies of the planet/the entity, and the dragons being the defenders of the planet. If that is the case, as Cross seems to suggest, the entity/planet was only using Crono to destroy Lavos, and after the time crash, wishes to destroy the human race as well.
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Lavos, the Planet, and other Entities / Portals in the year 1000
« on: January 04, 2004, 08:03:10 pm »Quote
the Entity, who actually practically controlled the destinies of both the Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross heroes in order to stop Lavos from destroying first the planet
Only halfway true, if you accept that theory. We're told that in CC, Belthasar, not the entity, pre-plans all of Serge's actions, to lead him up to defeating the Time Devourer.
As for the entity in CT, I know I'm in the minority, but I find it unlikely that the entity is to blame/thank for the time portals, unless it is using time as a tool for teaching. First, many people believe that the entity is the planet, trying to save itself by using Crono, but that raises the question of why, with so much power, the entity can't simply write Lavos out of the timeline? Hold Lavos in time suspension like it supposedly held Marle? I believe that either
1) The entity, if it is indeed making the time portals, is doing so to teach Crono a lesson about his planet's history and change it for the better (a little metaphysics; everything's connected, changing one thing can make a lot of people's lives better). However, given that we know that twenty years later, Porre is in charge and making everyone's lives miserable, this seems unlikely. Why change history for the better if it will get worse again in short order?
The other possibility, is of course...
2) Lavos is indeed the reason for the time portals. We know that Lavos has a large amount of energy, and is responsible for at least two of the time portals (in Magus's castle, and in the Ocean Palace). So if it can make one, could it have not made the rest? Even if not purposeful, which is actually the most likely event, it seems unlikely that Lavos would purposefully make time portals that could be used to destroy it. It would also give a sense of not only irony, but balance, as the effects of Lavos's power are what are used to destroy it. Also, we know that the pendant is (or at least was in the dark ages) filled with and connected to Lavos's power. It seems very possible that using the pendant filled with Lavos's energy would be enough to "click" something, and open the time portals that may have lain dormant beforehand.
*shrugs* I don't know which, I only believe those are 2 of the most likely answers.
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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Marle's Great^12-Grandmother Paradox
« on: January 02, 2004, 06:17:31 am »
As for the entity detaining Marle (I'm replying to these as I read your post, desu yo):
I believe this is possible, but unlikely. Keep in mind that we have no clue as to what the Entity actually is - some believe it to be the planet, some "God", in some sense of the word. The problem with believing the Entity has the power to detain Marle in time is that it raises questions of what power the Entity has. If the Entity has enough power to manipulate time, why can it not just write Lavos out of the timeline? Or "detain" Lavos in time indefinitely as it did with Marle. I believe this casts doubt upon the theory that the Entity needs Crono and co to save it - the planet, the Entity probably isn't. I find it much more likely that either
1) The Entity was showing Crono and co the history of their planet, and giving them a chance to change it. It has been argued that Magus, especially, is a victim of his circumstances, so it seems possible that the Entity is giving him a second chance, among other things.
2) The Entity is "God", and will judge the human race based on Crono's actions, and how he chooses to manipulate time. I find this most unlikely, mainly because there is no evidence to support it, nor is it even hinted at in either the original Japanese or the modified American text.
Of course, we could just assume, as I mentioned earlier, that Square just wanted to do a time travel game. Light-hearted, saving the world. And in all honesty, that's probably closest to the truth. Yet we choose to cut the story up, and analyze every part of it by logic, something that we were probably not intended to do by the staff. That being said, we have to realize that some of the questions we ask may not have answers, because they were never intended to, and if we are going to theorize anyway, it might as well be a theory that we like. Games are fun because of interpretation. You can go as deep into the story as you want.
I believe this is possible, but unlikely. Keep in mind that we have no clue as to what the Entity actually is - some believe it to be the planet, some "God", in some sense of the word. The problem with believing the Entity has the power to detain Marle in time is that it raises questions of what power the Entity has. If the Entity has enough power to manipulate time, why can it not just write Lavos out of the timeline? Or "detain" Lavos in time indefinitely as it did with Marle. I believe this casts doubt upon the theory that the Entity needs Crono and co to save it - the planet, the Entity probably isn't. I find it much more likely that either
1) The Entity was showing Crono and co the history of their planet, and giving them a chance to change it. It has been argued that Magus, especially, is a victim of his circumstances, so it seems possible that the Entity is giving him a second chance, among other things.
2) The Entity is "God", and will judge the human race based on Crono's actions, and how he chooses to manipulate time. I find this most unlikely, mainly because there is no evidence to support it, nor is it even hinted at in either the original Japanese or the modified American text.
Of course, we could just assume, as I mentioned earlier, that Square just wanted to do a time travel game. Light-hearted, saving the world. And in all honesty, that's probably closest to the truth. Yet we choose to cut the story up, and analyze every part of it by logic, something that we were probably not intended to do by the staff. That being said, we have to realize that some of the questions we ask may not have answers, because they were never intended to, and if we are going to theorize anyway, it might as well be a theory that we like. Games are fun because of interpretation. You can go as deep into the story as you want.
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Time, Space, and Dimensions / Marle's Great^12-Grandmother Paradox
« on: January 02, 2004, 06:00:55 am »
*shrugs* Or we could continue it here, it's up to you. I have a little bit to add onto what I already posted, but not much.
As noted earlier, Marle's disappearing is the key that tells us that the grandfather paradox is in full effect in the game. We could either brush it aside, and realize (most accurately) that the game was only meant to be a light-hearted adventure about time travel, that didn't always make exact scientific sense, or we can attempt to come up with possibilities that would allow the game to still function under the wings of validity. I believe that jason79's temporal inertia theory is the easiest way to answer the Marle problem. It is also possible that once Crono enters 600AD, he cannot be affected by the events that happen in the timeline until they reach their full effect - in other words, he doesn't cease to exist because of the chain-effect until the year 600 he's currently in reaches 1000AD, and then we have a temporal paradox if he isn't able to save Leene. However, since Marle disappears, this is not only unlikely, but nearly impossible.
However, if we go along with the temporal inertia theory, we realize that Marle, having been in 600AD longer,and being the direct recepient of the problems of the newly created time paradox, will disappear first. The key paragraph to his theory is this:
"The answer is temporal inertia. Remember that Marle arrived before Crono, who arrived before Lucca. Also, remember that Marle was born in approximately 984 AD, while Crono and Lucca only recently were affected by her presence. This means that, when Marle accidentally changes history, she will be affected by the time change sooner than Crono and Lucca. "
So had more time passed, Crono and Lucca would've eventually disappeared, as theorized in these 2 paragraphs:
"If we were to witness Marle's departure from 1000, after however long it took for the soldiers to find her and call off their search, we would see an instantaneous change in 1000, because as far as 1000 is concerned, 600 is done and gone. But from 600's point of view, the time change is yet to occur. Because Crono, Marle, and Lucca are in the past, they are not affected by the time change right away. But as I said above, they will be affected, and Marle is affected first, because
she is directly related to Leene.
Imagine the time change as a linear event, passing through the four centuries between 600 and 1000. We would see it reaching Marle's birth before it reached the moment her pendant influenced the Telepods. This explains why Crono and Lucca didn't disappear right when Marle did. Of course, if we waited around long enough, we'd see Crono disappear too,
and a moment later Lucca. "
While this is never used anywhere else in the game, I believe it has no need to be. No other point in the game uses the grandfather paradox, and in almost every case (aside from sidequests), the timeline is maintained almost perfectly, with the only exception being that Crono and co are now known to a few individuals of each time period.
Just my thoughts. Feel free to reply here or there. I must say, nice boards, here. Outside of GameFAQs, with the old members like One That Was and BubbleBobby2000, I've never seen any board that took the Chrono series's story beyond the classic "if Crono defeats Lavos, then the past him travels to 2300 AD, they won't see Lavos destroying the planet because it doesn't happen, so this game doesn't make sense" debate. Refreshing, to say the least. I may end up spending a lot of time here, so long as I am welcome.
As noted earlier, Marle's disappearing is the key that tells us that the grandfather paradox is in full effect in the game. We could either brush it aside, and realize (most accurately) that the game was only meant to be a light-hearted adventure about time travel, that didn't always make exact scientific sense, or we can attempt to come up with possibilities that would allow the game to still function under the wings of validity. I believe that jason79's temporal inertia theory is the easiest way to answer the Marle problem. It is also possible that once Crono enters 600AD, he cannot be affected by the events that happen in the timeline until they reach their full effect - in other words, he doesn't cease to exist because of the chain-effect until the year 600 he's currently in reaches 1000AD, and then we have a temporal paradox if he isn't able to save Leene. However, since Marle disappears, this is not only unlikely, but nearly impossible.
However, if we go along with the temporal inertia theory, we realize that Marle, having been in 600AD longer,and being the direct recepient of the problems of the newly created time paradox, will disappear first. The key paragraph to his theory is this:
"The answer is temporal inertia. Remember that Marle arrived before Crono, who arrived before Lucca. Also, remember that Marle was born in approximately 984 AD, while Crono and Lucca only recently were affected by her presence. This means that, when Marle accidentally changes history, she will be affected by the time change sooner than Crono and Lucca. "
So had more time passed, Crono and Lucca would've eventually disappeared, as theorized in these 2 paragraphs:
"If we were to witness Marle's departure from 1000, after however long it took for the soldiers to find her and call off their search, we would see an instantaneous change in 1000, because as far as 1000 is concerned, 600 is done and gone. But from 600's point of view, the time change is yet to occur. Because Crono, Marle, and Lucca are in the past, they are not affected by the time change right away. But as I said above, they will be affected, and Marle is affected first, because
she is directly related to Leene.
Imagine the time change as a linear event, passing through the four centuries between 600 and 1000. We would see it reaching Marle's birth before it reached the moment her pendant influenced the Telepods. This explains why Crono and Lucca didn't disappear right when Marle did. Of course, if we waited around long enough, we'd see Crono disappear too,
and a moment later Lucca. "
While this is never used anywhere else in the game, I believe it has no need to be. No other point in the game uses the grandfather paradox, and in almost every case (aside from sidequests), the timeline is maintained almost perfectly, with the only exception being that Crono and co are now known to a few individuals of each time period.
Just my thoughts. Feel free to reply here or there. I must say, nice boards, here. Outside of GameFAQs, with the old members like One That Was and BubbleBobby2000, I've never seen any board that took the Chrono series's story beyond the classic "if Crono defeats Lavos, then the past him travels to 2300 AD, they won't see Lavos destroying the planet because it doesn't happen, so this game doesn't make sense" debate. Refreshing, to say the least. I may end up spending a lot of time here, so long as I am welcome.
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