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General Discussion / Re: Sooo... a music thread! (V SAYS: DO NOT JUST MAKE A LIST)
« on: January 02, 2011, 11:19:24 am »
Mainly 'indie' music, like The Wrens, Spoon, Built to Spill etc. Big fan of Radiohead, whatever they are. Also into jazz (Charles Mingus, Miles Davis, etc.), classical Romantic music (Tchaicovsky, Rachmanimoff, etc.), electronica (Aphex Twin, 808 State, etc.), and hip-hop (Nas, Jay-Z, Wu-Tang Clan, etc.). So pretty much everything: http://last.fm/user/riffrafi/charts
I feel that good music has similar qualities, more so than songs of the same genre do. For me, there's more similar between Nas's N.Y. State of Mind and Radiohead's Lucky than there is between Nas's N.Y. State of Mind and 50 Cent's *anything*.
I feel that good music has similar qualities, more so than songs of the same genre do. For me, there's more similar between Nas's N.Y. State of Mind and Radiohead's Lucky than there is between Nas's N.Y. State of Mind and 50 Cent's *anything*.
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: Hi
« on: November 18, 2010, 03:05:07 am »
Thanks Fafnir, always good to hear from you 
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: Hi
« on: November 15, 2010, 05:18:19 am »
I think I've said my hi! well enough now!
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: Hi
« on: November 15, 2010, 02:12:31 am »
The problem I have with the entire issue is of a social one. 'Atheism' has become such a dirty word, and often you'll find -- as I have -- that agnostics will unfairly criticise your views as dogmatic, when often you'll share the same views. It would be ignorant of me to claim that diction mean nothing in discourse. I would rather people understand what atheism really atheism really means: rejecting belief in deities. This can mean lots of things, but that's the point! After calling yourself an 'atheist', you are then free to propose other points; perhaps you are a nihilist, an agnostic, a secular humanist, a Satanist, a Buddhist, or an mixture etc. etc. All good! But I want 'atheism' to become a more acceptable word in discourse, and unfortunately self-proclaimed agnostics have taken the role of the moral, tolerant, rational skeptics, and atheism has become synonymous with scream-totin' antitheists. I hope one day 'atheism' will just mean 'not a theist.' (but then that brings the whole issue of deists and pantheists and panentheists etc etc etc ad absurdum.
And I'm sorry, I agree with you re: West > East too
And I'm sorry, I agree with you re: West > East too
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: Hi
« on: November 14, 2010, 06:11:15 pm »
Oh J, it isn't as fun when we agree on every point now 
EDIT: Perhaps I should clarify my position. I believe that 'cosmic agnosticism' is the same as 'cosmic weak atheism', neither of which excludes 'specific strong atheism.' The reason I say this is because not claiming to be able to know does not mean 'not believing' is dogmatic or on faith -- not believing is simply default. If you do 'not believe' in god, then you are an atheist. I think the prevalence of 'agnosticism' as a placeholder word for this atheism is because it is seen as dirty. If (or when, if I am socially experimenting) I said to someone 'I am an agnostic', they wouldn't bat an eye: agnosticism is the kind of thing that if you hold, you are immune from criticism. If you say you are an atheist, however, you can get all kinds of things thrown at you: 'you're just as bad as religion!', 'don't you need faith to believe that?', 'stop being so militant!' etc etc. It becomes harder to explain your position because while an 'agnostic' just doesn't seem to care, the word 'atheist' comes loaded with all kinds of anti-theistic, dogmatic predispositions. Although I am anti-theistic, I would like to argue that separately rather than it being seen as part of my atheist.
There is nothing wrong with the term 'agnostic' of course, I just have specific gripes with it because the term seems to be making a useless schism in the irreligious community between agnostics and atheists, even though most of them are holding the same views.
EDIT 2: Just for fun, to highlight the cognitive dissonance between love and hate that goes on in many theists minds, a woman from California just sent me this on facebook: 'you r a down right dog for saying what you said about Jesus! and u will rought in hell 4 saying that! May God Bless You!' I think I said that Jesus didn't exist.
EDIT: Perhaps I should clarify my position. I believe that 'cosmic agnosticism' is the same as 'cosmic weak atheism', neither of which excludes 'specific strong atheism.' The reason I say this is because not claiming to be able to know does not mean 'not believing' is dogmatic or on faith -- not believing is simply default. If you do 'not believe' in god, then you are an atheist. I think the prevalence of 'agnosticism' as a placeholder word for this atheism is because it is seen as dirty. If (or when, if I am socially experimenting) I said to someone 'I am an agnostic', they wouldn't bat an eye: agnosticism is the kind of thing that if you hold, you are immune from criticism. If you say you are an atheist, however, you can get all kinds of things thrown at you: 'you're just as bad as religion!', 'don't you need faith to believe that?', 'stop being so militant!' etc etc. It becomes harder to explain your position because while an 'agnostic' just doesn't seem to care, the word 'atheist' comes loaded with all kinds of anti-theistic, dogmatic predispositions. Although I am anti-theistic, I would like to argue that separately rather than it being seen as part of my atheist.
There is nothing wrong with the term 'agnostic' of course, I just have specific gripes with it because the term seems to be making a useless schism in the irreligious community between agnostics and atheists, even though most of them are holding the same views.
EDIT 2: Just for fun, to highlight the cognitive dissonance between love and hate that goes on in many theists minds, a woman from California just sent me this on facebook: 'you r a down right dog for saying what you said about Jesus! and u will rought in hell 4 saying that! May God Bless You!' I think I said that Jesus didn't exist.
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: Hi
« on: November 14, 2010, 04:59:27 am »
I agree that most (I wouldn't go so far all) theist debates go into gibberish. Mostly because their god becomes unfalsifiable and thus unprovable or provable -- but then it becomes impossible to believe in such a thing without it being completely unjustifiable, and thus, I lack specific belief in such a thing (which is a reason I consider agnosticism and atheism to be the same in this situation). On the other hand, the god proclaimed by the Bible or the Quran can be disproven due to the qualities they supposedly have.
I don't see your argument in anyway flawed. For all we know, there can be a god of some sort. However, until I get evidence of such, I won't believe there is a god, so that makes me by all definitions an atheist. I'm withholding believe until further findings, rather than outright disbelieving. But it is most likely that there is no god, due to things like evolution that make the historical idea of god redundant. So in the same way I believe the Big Bang is most likely to have happened, I think a god most likely doesn't exist -- I don't argue one is certain.
Also, I agree that in the end, it doesn't really matter if god exists. If he does, then existence was constructed in such a way that makes believe in it implausible, irrational, and reasonable. Possibly there is a god that has deceived us and made us in such a way. The only problem is that this logic gives rise to 'agnostic theism' (or, that there is no way to know if god exists, so just have faith he does) which as you noted is highly dangerous. It was W. K. Clifford who said "it is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence." He noted circumstances where false belief can lead to negative, immoral consequences. So I'm glad that you still find religious faith repugnant.
Yes, I hope you don't hold it against me that I once had such views -- I still do, to myself. I find it sick when religious people justify things like that; find it sick when people justify violence against gays or apostates or whomever else; find it sick when people justify evil as gods plan; find it sick when people justify eternal punishment (one of the things that made me become an anti-theist).
Sometimes, the world does seem more bleak when I look at it as empty of divine presence, sometimes it scares me that the end is the end. But after all that, it becomes empowering, knowing that I can create a life without a totalitarian dictator watching my every move and claiming monopoly over all the good feelings like love and happiness, while shrugging off his part in all the negativity.
I don't see your argument in anyway flawed. For all we know, there can be a god of some sort. However, until I get evidence of such, I won't believe there is a god, so that makes me by all definitions an atheist. I'm withholding believe until further findings, rather than outright disbelieving. But it is most likely that there is no god, due to things like evolution that make the historical idea of god redundant. So in the same way I believe the Big Bang is most likely to have happened, I think a god most likely doesn't exist -- I don't argue one is certain.
Also, I agree that in the end, it doesn't really matter if god exists. If he does, then existence was constructed in such a way that makes believe in it implausible, irrational, and reasonable. Possibly there is a god that has deceived us and made us in such a way. The only problem is that this logic gives rise to 'agnostic theism' (or, that there is no way to know if god exists, so just have faith he does) which as you noted is highly dangerous. It was W. K. Clifford who said "it is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence." He noted circumstances where false belief can lead to negative, immoral consequences. So I'm glad that you still find religious faith repugnant.
Yes, I hope you don't hold it against me that I once had such views -- I still do, to myself. I find it sick when religious people justify things like that; find it sick when people justify violence against gays or apostates or whomever else; find it sick when people justify evil as gods plan; find it sick when people justify eternal punishment (one of the things that made me become an anti-theist).
Sometimes, the world does seem more bleak when I look at it as empty of divine presence, sometimes it scares me that the end is the end. But after all that, it becomes empowering, knowing that I can create a life without a totalitarian dictator watching my every move and claiming monopoly over all the good feelings like love and happiness, while shrugging off his part in all the negativity.
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General Discussion / Re: Humanity: Good News, Bad News
« on: November 13, 2010, 10:44:09 pm »
Good News: Aung San Suu Kyi released from house arrest!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/13/aung-san-suu-kyi-released
Bad News: Burma is still a totalitarian police state.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/13/aung-san-suu-kyi-released
Bad News: Burma is still a totalitarian police state.
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: Hi
« on: November 13, 2010, 10:42:15 pm »
@Though: The day an Arnold S. movie inspires me to come back here, I give you permission to find me and shoot me.
@FaustWolf: I was going through my old messages before and saw one from GrayLensman, and wondered where he and other veterans were. Sad times.
@Lord J: Oh my, Square Enix dividing and destroying a once thriving community. That is sad indeed But it is interesting you were 'never an atheist' - it reminds me of Christians who play Devils' advocates, undermining their own beliefs, but without realising it (reminds me of, but not 'equivalent to...'). It would be interesting to discuss your position on divinity and your agnosticism. In fact, only recently I was debating people about their alleged agnosticism and what it really meant (I don't believe agnosticism is a position one can hold in relation to God's existence, but rather in relation to ability to know). But yes, regardless of where my critical thinking takes me, that critical thinking most likely couldn't have arisen without you or this forum. That isn't to say nothing else influenced me, since when I left this forum I wasn't an atheist, but every descent has its beginning.
And yes, I will take on the Lord J esq role and dispel a fool or two
@FaustWolf: I was going through my old messages before and saw one from GrayLensman, and wondered where he and other veterans were. Sad times.
@Lord J: Oh my, Square Enix dividing and destroying a once thriving community. That is sad indeed
But it is interesting you were 'never an atheist' - it reminds me of Christians who play Devils' advocates, undermining their own beliefs, but without realising it (reminds me of, but not 'equivalent to...'). It would be interesting to discuss your position on divinity and your agnosticism. In fact, only recently I was debating people about their alleged agnosticism and what it really meant (I don't believe agnosticism is a position one can hold in relation to God's existence, but rather in relation to ability to know). But yes, regardless of where my critical thinking takes me, that critical thinking most likely couldn't have arisen without you or this forum. That isn't to say nothing else influenced me, since when I left this forum I wasn't an atheist, but every descent has its beginning.And yes, I will take on the Lord J esq role and dispel a fool or two
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: Hi
« on: November 13, 2010, 04:20:36 am »
Neither did I! I was watching The Seventh Seal, and a line from the Book of Revelations about a 'falling star' called Wormwood was quoted; naturally, I thought of Lavos, came here to find information on it - failed - and felt an intense pang of nostalgia. So here I am.
Australian life is hot and humid at the moment. I have my fan on, my study-for-exams-cap off, and my hunger somewhere in between.
Good to see you're still lurking around here, Lord J!
P.S. You might like to know that I am probably amongst the most outspoken and openly atheist atheists (?) in a 200km radius of where I'm sitting now, and I'd probably be doing you a great disservice if I didn't attribute a large chunk of that to you.
Australian life is hot and humid at the moment. I have my fan on, my study-for-exams-cap off, and my hunger somewhere in between.
Good to see you're still lurking around here, Lord J!
P.S. You might like to know that I am probably amongst the most outspoken and openly atheist atheists (?) in a 200km radius of where I'm sitting now, and I'd probably be doing you a great disservice if I didn't attribute a large chunk of that to you.
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Hi
« on: November 13, 2010, 04:04:07 am »
What's up guys? I see you have new smileys!
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: is it true?!
« on: August 21, 2008, 06:12:12 am »
Too old. Anything postnatal is too old for me.
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Welcome / Birthday / Seeya! Forum / Re: is it true?!
« on: August 20, 2008, 04:27:06 am »Uh, I talked to her on MSN and now remember who she is...she's 11, BZ...>_>:O
Pics.