Idea of Guile being Janus but not Magus.

[Scintillating_Void]

Okay bear with me here, this is a theory someone brought up to me some time ago, and while the evidence for it is almost nonexistent, I think it's still an intriguing thing to think about.

The theory is that Guile is Janus, but from a different tangent, so to speak.

Magus would negate his own existence as the Prophet and become a time bastard(actually that's not the right word) like the Epoch.  He would "warn" Janus about what he would become in an indirect way, influencing Janus's decisions and behavior later on.  But the most important thing Magus would have done to negate his existence would be to bar Janus from going to the Ocean Palace and leaving him with Melchior.

Here's why I say "almost nonexistent".

After the fall of Zeal, someone says that Melchior tried to grab onto Janus as he was sucked into a time gate, but then both slipped in.  I assumed at first that they would get sucked in and Melchior and Janus would be both separated afterward.

But what if they didn't?

What if say, Janus AND Melchior landed in 1000 A.D Gaurdia.  Melchior raises Janus like a kindly grandpa and Janus does not grow up to be a dick.  He becomes Guile instead.  If Magus knows, it would give him a little more peace to know that he did give a second chance to "himself". 

[EgyLynx]

Hmm, new think old think. Only same them are it was them both ... dark?

[chrono.source]

I enjoy this theory. It also plays into the Multiverse theory wherein any numerous differences in a "choice" variable could/could not create Guile.

[Kodokami]

I agree, I really like this theory. Gives more credence to the whole "fate can change" thing. If this Janus retains his memories but just accepts his fate, do you think he would recognize Kid as his sister or just a familiar "enigma"? Or maybe he grows up to become one of the many "potentialities" that the Magus at the DBT mentions, loses his memories because of the Dream Devourer, and becomes Guile...?

Fun to think about. One thing that might discredit it though: Is there any mention late in Chrono Trigger of the Fiend Lord leading the Mystics in 600 AD? I know something can change where the Mystics of 1000 AD no longer worship his statue, but if he's still mentioned, then that probably means Janus was still sent to 600 Ad after the player's involvement in Zeal.

[Acacia Sgt]

Personally, I don't agree with this theory. At least, not from the Janus we see in Antiquity.

I agree, I really like this theory. Gives more credence to the whole "fate can change" thing. If this Janus retains his memories but just accepts his fate, do you think he would recognize Kid as his sister or just a familiar "enigma"? Or maybe he grows up to become one of the many "potentialities" that the Magus at the DBT mentions, loses his memories because of the Dream Devourer, and becomes Guile...?

Fun to think about. One thing that might discredit it though: Is there any mention late in Chrono Trigger of the Fiend Lord leading the Mystics in 600 AD? I know something can change where the Mystics of 1000 AD no longer worship his statue, but if he's still mentioned, then that probably means Janus was still sent to 600 Ad after the player's involvement in Zeal.

Yes. 600AD does not change at all (save for the stuff related to the Fiona's Forest sidequest) after the events of Antiquity. In fact, doing the Magus related sidequest shows Magus/Janus and his Fiendlord thing still happened, as Ozzie, Flea, and Slash show dissapointment in him for the whole Summoning Lavos thing fiasco.

[Scintillating_Void]

Well I guess it's debunked then, unless you want to add more timey-wimey things to it.

[ThatGuy]

Nah, come on people, just think, we can make a way for this theory to still work. It's too good to give up on!

We could do the 50/50 thing like Serge went through if nothing else...

[Scintillating_Void]

Nah, come on people, just think, we can make a way for this theory to still work. It's too good to give up on!

We could do the 50/50 thing like Serge went through if nothing else...

Actually, I have a few ideas:

-This does happen, but in an alternate timeline because why not, and he winds up in El Nido because of Opassa Beach.

-The relationship between Guile and Magus is actually more like Kid and Schala, Guile is actually a fragment in some way.

-The above could have happened like this:  Somewhere along the timeline FATE or something else starts to tamper with Magus's timeline.  Maybe someone wanted him out of the picture so they intentionally weakened Magus's morale and spirit so he couldn't save Schala.  Maybe Magus figured out why and did something to save himself, and so retaliated by splitting himself in some way, that fragment becoming Guile.  Hence why Guile is hardly like Magus and maybe that whole sequence where he gives up saving Schala is just his "son-clone" or some shit like that, I don't know this is getting too weird.

-Or maybe he doesn't actually wipe his memory, that was actually his "son-clone" dumped into Guardia and the true Magus fled out of the timeline so he wouldn't be destroyed by whatever was out for him, and then had to watch over Kid from outside of reality, hence appearing like a shadow.

-Well he does say "if some part of me" can make it...

[Zaulche]

Chrono Cross has two dimensions, one where Serge is dead and one where he is not. This sets precedent for dimensional splits. In Chrono Trigger Lavos sends people through dimensional gates in the "original" timeline and when Krono/adult Janus are meddling with affairs. Maybe in one timeline Melchior got to him and in another he didn't.

I get Chrono Cross implies that the only reason the timelines split is because Serge is special, but that reason I never felt was concretely supported by the game. Plus there are minor plot inconsistencies in Chrono Trigger unless multiple timelines can exist, so the is support in both games for this I think.

Admittedly, once you add multiple timelines things get much messier to keep track of.

[ThatGuy]

Okay, here's what I got...

In the original Lavos timeline, Janus went into his own portal and eventually became Magus.

In the new Crono timeline, a guy in the Earthbound village mentions that Melchior and Janus both went into portals, again, with no mention of them being together in any way.

Further, when you go back to Medina village, or Ozzie's fort, or anywhere in 600AD, there's no reason to think that Janus didn't still end up in that era, because it's clear the war with the Mystics still happened, and Magus was at the head.

And! Talking to Melchior in 1000AD after the Ocean Palace experience, you think he'd make some kind of mention or something, there'd be SOMEthing, about Janus. (Although he really should have been less 1D at that point, and asked about Schala or something, I mean really... Anyway.)

So, unless you go all Chrono Cross about it (meaning, hey, different alternate realities can just pop into being for no actual good reason, stupid Dinopolis...), I don't think Guile can be Janus and not Magus, unless something *else* occurs somewhere/some-when to cause it. (Not that I'm opposed to that!)

So... I don't know if this is gonna work...

[EgyLynx]

Hey, thatīs nice ... from yours... anyway...

What them think when them get him at in?