The Prometheus Circuit's Intent and Chronopolis Queries in General

[Syao]

Hi, I'm trying desperately to piece everything together in my head and on paper and I stumbled across a slight problem when I researching the Prometheus Circuit.

Now, Belthasar installed the Promethus Circuit in FATE as I believe it was Kid who said, "A Rebellion Circuit."  The Compendium says that it was the Prometheus Circuit that finds Serge when he arrives at Chronopolis in 1006 A.D. with Wazuki and Miguel and labels him as The Last Arbiter, effectively locking FATE out of accessing the power of the Frozen Flame.  FATE retaliates by capturing/holding/locking Miguel to Chronopolis and "poisons" Wazuki's mind that he would kill Serge so that FATE could once again access the Frozen Flame.

So, in 1010 A.D. Kid returns from 1020 A.D. presumably under Belthasar's direction to save Serge from being drowned by Wazuki who had turned into Lynx as the thing that Serge feared the most at the time was a panther because of his attack.  This is the major dimensional split of Chrono Cross I believe.  Serge dies in one dimension (Another) and lives in the other (Home).

I suppose my question is:

Is The Prometheus Circuit there in order that FATE will be locked out of the Flame thus forcing it find a way to access it through Serge, be it by killing him or by having the physical version of FATE, Lynx turn into Serge to bypass the biological check?  I have problems even further then in that it was Harle who convinced Lynx to attack Lucca Ashtear in hopes of getting her to allow FATE back into the Flame.  If memory serves it was that Harle might be able to gain the Flame back for the dragons that they might reunite and resurrect Dinopolis in the form of Terra Tower.  So was it Belthasar who orchestrated a move that would have FATE:

Lose access to the Flame
Try to gain it through Lucca by way of Harle's "suggestion" and wind up killing her and thus birthing the grudge that Kid has for Lynx
When Lucca died, FATE would then try and kill Serge through Lynx
FATE forsees the dimensional split and sends Lynx to "steal" Serge's body to pass the biological test
Kid would meet up with Serge in 1020 to help with his quest

I believe that is correct, but I am not sure, I feel that I might be overcomplicating it, but it seems with this game that that is hard to do.


The other main area that I'm having trouble with (at the moment) is where Chronopolis is in Home.  In Another it is very clearly visible as the research facility that Belthasar created, but in Home it is merely the Tower of Geddon.  If I understand it correctly, The Dead Sea (Home) is a reflection of the ruined future of 2400 A.D. "after" the Time Crash, whereas The Sea of Eden (Another) is the properous Future, or perhaps the same future, only moments apart.  In other words, The Sea of Eden is the Future before the experiment and therefore before the Time Crash and The Dead Sea is the Future just afterwards?

I'm not sure if that is correct or not.




I would desperately appreciate any input, and please lay waste to any inaccuracies that I have made as I am sure there are dozens and dozens of them.

Thank You


P.S.  If this is in the wrong section, I am very sorry, I'm a bit confused about what goes where.  Feel free to yell at me about it.

[ZeaLitY]

Chronopolis survived the Time Crash and is there...simply to be there in Another World, though there's a theory that there's a Gate effect surrounding it that takes one ten thousand years into the future. But it's there, at least. Current theory states that the Dead Sea is also ten thousand years into the future beyond the Gate effect, but because it's a reflection of a bad future in which Lavos erupts, it reflects pure ruin. Of course, this is almost invoking action from mere possibility in terms of changing history (a Chrono no no), and really, any understanding of the Dead Sea at large we had was shattered when the Armageddon-Branch theory fell to pieces. But I suppose fundamentally, that situation just reflects that Another World's future is good, and Home World's ends in ruin.

After reviewing the script and thinking back, I guess that's really the Circuit's function -- just a machination of the plot according to Belthasar's plan. Looking at the game from that light can clear up many things...one sees why splitting the dimensions was necessary to create a two-dimensional Chrono Cross -- Belthasar needed it that way. But I admit that I wonder why the Circuit is never given a direct explanation in the game, other than its function...

[Syao]

Okay, I think I understand, though I have a few more questions:

So the Chrono Cross then needs to be created from corresponding parts of the Dragon Tear from both dimensions, and not just parts from one?

Also, in saying that Home's future is bleak as opposed to Another's being prosperous, is that then to say that had Serge lived and not gone through Belthasar's ordeal and destroyed the Devourer of Time that Home would have suffered the fate fortold in the Dead Sea?  Is it then safe to assume through through Serge's conquering of the Devourer that Home's future is much the same as Another's as shown in the game?

When they refer to "Weaving together the threads of fate," or however it's phrased, is that a full assimilation of Home and Another or simply destroying the portal between them? It seems to me that there is no reason for Another or Home to disappear or combine really as there are other futures that are very real though not seen and not destroyed or combined.  For example, Dinopolis is an alternate future assuming no human contact with Lavos, and even though there was contact, Dinopolis was still real enough to be pulled back along with Chronopolis.

I'm not positive if this is ever explicitly stated, but is it safe to assume that Marle's pendant is in fact Schala's passed down through time, or is it merely a very similar one?  Specifically, the interaction of Kid's Astral Amulet with the Dimensional Breach, and how similar that is to how Marle's pendant interacted with Lucca's teleporter signifies to me that they might be one and the same, though I'm not sure, as it draws up problems as to how Marle could have had the pendant when Schala was lost in The Darkness Beyond Time.

Once again, I'm not sure how off base I am, and please correct me if I am, but this is the best of my understanding, as fragmented as it is.

[ZeaLitY]

Okay, I think I understand, though I have a few more questions:

So the Chrono Cross then needs to be created from corresponding parts of the Dragon Tear from both dimensions, and not just parts from one?

We...think so. Everything seems to suggest that, including the premise that the dimensions are unified. It's just never explicitly stated.

Also, in saying that Home's future is bleak as opposed to Another's being prosperous, is that then to say that had Serge lived and not gone through Belthasar's ordeal and destroyed the Devourer of Time that Home would have suffered the fate fortold in the Dead Sea?  Is it then safe to assume through through Serge's conquering of the Devourer that Home's future is much the same as Another's as shown in the game?

Home world's ruined future is said to distinctly be one in which Lavos destroys the earth and Crono's actions never happen or are undone, as the ghosts complain about it. Once the Time Devourer matures, all time is instantly kaput, so thank goodness that hasn't happened yet or the game would be over.

When they refer to "Weaving together the threads of fate," or however it's phrased, is that a full assimilation of Home and Another or simply destroying the portal between them? It seems to me that there is no reason for Another or Home to disappear or combine really as there are other futures that are very real though not seen and not destroyed or combined.  For example, Dinopolis is an alternate future assuming no human contact with Lavos, and even though there was contact, Dinopolis was still real enough to be pulled back along with Chronopolis.

We have no real idea what happens with the dimensions after the ending. We interpret that to mean they became one.

I'm not positive if this is ever explicitly stated, but is it safe to assume that Marle's pendant is in fact Schala's passed down through time, or is it merely a very similar one?  Specifically, the interaction of Kid's Astral Amulet with the Dimensional Breach, and how similar that is to how Marle's pendant interacted with Lucca's teleporter signifies to me that they might be one and the same, though I'm not sure, as it draws up problems as to how Marle could have had the pendant when Schala was lost in The Darkness Beyond Time.

You're correct about Marle having Schala's pendant, and that potential paradox is still within canon thanks to TTI and TB: http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Pendant_Paradox_%28Reasons_for%29.html

[Zaperking]

Home world's ruined future is said to distinctly be one in which Lavos destroys the earth and Crono's actions never happen or are undone, as the ghosts complain about it. Once the Time Devourer matures, all time is instantly kaput, so thank goodness that hasn't happened yet or the game would be over.

Wasn't it more like Crono and Co saved it, but Serge, after they saved it, does something that would lead to it's destruction? It's never stated that Cronos actions never happened, or were undone, and I wouldn't see how it'd have never happened. The fact that Serge lives is living proof that the future will have Chronopolis, the time crash, and the creation of the El Nido archipelago. Hence Crono's adventure took place, and they did save the future, that is from 1000AD's perspective. However, since Crono and Marle are involved in some incident in 1005AD, maybe they cannot quest to the future and save it again (maybe they would do it again, but this would be in the timeline before Chronopolis went back in time.
Whatever the case is, it's Serge's existence that merely does it.

Is The Prometheus Circuit there in order that FATE will be locked out of the Flame thus forcing it find a way to access it through Serge, be it by killing him or by having the physical version of FATE, Lynx turn into Serge to bypass the biological check?  I have problems even further then in that it was Harle who convinced Lynx to attack Lucca Ashtear in hopes of getting her to allow FATE back into the Flame.  If memory serves it was that Harle might be able to gain the Flame back for the dragons that they might reunite and resurrect Dinopolis in the form of Terra Tower.  So was it Belthasar who orchestrated a move that would have FATE:
Lose access to the Flame
Try to gain it through Lucca by way of Harle's "suggestion" and wind up killing her and thus birthing the grudge that Kid has for Lynx
When Lucca died, FATE would then try and kill Serge through Lynx
FATE forsees the dimensional split and sends Lynx to "steal" Serge's body to pass the biological test
Kid would meet up with Serge in 1020 to help with his quest

Though it's a nice idea, Harle evidently had no involvement in Lynx's decision to go after Lucca. Harle, yes, is intended to get back the flame from FATE to release the dragons, but she appeared to Lynx to be his henchwoman. She is his subordinate. She's simply waiting for the moment when she can betray Lynx, but still follows his orders. Lynx was the one that decided to go after Lucca. FATE knew who helped create the original Prometheus circuit (the one that limited Mother Brain's power), and that was historicaly Lucca. Hence Lynx sought her out, this was in 1014 (I think), but immediately after Serge's original death. It is not known if Lucca was killed in Home World, though I doubt it, FATE would try once and know that it would fail. Plus, Kid isn't anywhere in Home World, seeking her revenge.

[ZeaLitY]

1015 A.D., and yeah, I think the ghost children said Serge's existence somehow nullified their actions.

[Chrono'99]

any understanding of the Dead Sea at large we had was shattered when the Armageddon-Branch theory fell to pieces.

Didn't we theorize that Lavos could really have been defeated in 1999 AD after all? I can't remember which thread it was discussed in.

[ZeaLitY]

http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Lavos_Paradox_(Reasons_for).html

Wait...yeah, the Lavos paradox takes precedence. We solved it, and it isn't a plot hole. So that means that Crono could have defeated Lavos in 1999 A.D. There's a lot of the Gameplay element here...but going under the ruling of the Lavos paradox page, Crono could have "shifted" to 1999 A.D. via the Pocket Dimension to battle Lavos formally. After all, defeating Lavos there is the only way to stop him from destroying the world.

So, if there's nothing else wrong with Armageddon Branch...

I guess we can revive it? I just wonder why I was so quick to throw it away...

[Chrono'99]

Well, a problem remains. I'm not sure if it was touched on back then or if I'm coming up with it now but, Crono and Lavos shifting from 12000 B.C. to 1999 A.D. wouldn't change the fact that a "more recent" version of Lavos should also emerges in 1999 A.D.

I detailed the issue on another thread, though I'm not sure whether I'm actually making sense or not (it's hard to think fourth-dimensionally :/ ): http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,4655.0.html