Rise Of Porre

[Chibi-Bob]

What about that little scene that sometimes appears when the party is defeated in Chrono Trigger?  The scene with a certain army in what darn well looks like Porre military uniforms, with the head honcho sitting in the pilot's seat of a mecha? warship? Black Hawk :p? ordering an attack on Truce.  The image then displays a single sentence:  "But the future refused to change!"  If this is the case...  Then Crono and company had little to no influence on Porre throughout the entirety of the game.  Porre still would have invaded Truce even if Lavos hadn't been defeated and Chronopolis was never constructed, even if Elements weren't brought to Porre or whatever theories may exist on the subject.

I could always be wrong, but doesn't this destroy pretty much everything about Crono's accomplishments triggering the Porre invasion of Truce?  I think I might be on to something (if it hasn't been mentioned already), but there's really nothing else out there to back it up.  I hope Chrono Break clears up some of these loose ends, or else we're all pretty much going to speculate for eternity.  :\

[Symmetry]

What about that little scene that sometimes appears when the party is defeated in Chrono Trigger?  The scene with a certain army in what darn well looks like Porre military uniforms, with the head honcho sitting in the pilot's seat of a mecha? warship? Black Hawk :p? ordering an attack on Truce.  The image then displays a single sentence:  "But the future refused to change!"  If this is the case...  Then Crono and company had little to no influence on Porre throughout the entirety of the game.  Porre still would have invaded Truce even if Lavos hadn't been defeated and Chronopolis was never constructed, even if Elements weren't brought to Porre or whatever theories may exist on the subject.

Maybe I'm remembering a different scene, but I believe that was describing Lavos' awakening rather than an attack on Guardia by Porre. Those uniforms were similiar to the ones worm in Guardia castle in 1000AD as well - I can't remember seeing any Porreans in similiar 'military' garb in CT.

[koolkame]

There's been a lot of talk about an industrial revolution happening in Porre and its jump in technology. It's implied that Lucca is behind part of this in the Burning Orphanage, but I think there may be another catalyst for the rise of Porre's military might.

Robo.

Now I know this was an optional quest in CT but bear with me. Leaving Robo at Fiona's for four hundred years had to really affect the timeline. After the forest is regrown and Robo is enshrined the church, the government of Porre could have "borrowed" the relic and studied it. That could explain the similarities in Grobyc's and Robo's abilities (rocket punch, lasers) and combined with androids like the Cybot from Fort Dragonia could explain the the leap in robotics Porre experienced.

This may mean that Porre was already changing into a military power during the events at the end of CT. Maybe that's why the Chrono Crew were staying in the woods (or maybe Robo was too heavy to move all the way to an Inn, I don't know.) Correction, they did have the Epoch so they may have stayed in the woods out of hostility to Guardians.

This idea was what prompted me to join the forums here, so let me know what you think.

[koolkame]

Oops, looks like I was scooped. Chrono'99 posted this nearly a year ago. My bad, Chrono'99. I hope my ideas on their staying in the forest was original, at least.

 Here's what Chrono'99 wrote.
"I've just thought about something, Robo's carcass was put in Fiona's Shrine from some century after 600AD to 1000AD, when Crono's party repaired him and took him away. Maybe Porre studied his circuits in order to start making their own robots? Also, in Keystone T-2, Porre might have been quite pissed off when they learnt the future prince of Guardia just popped in their sacred shrine and stole "their" Robo..."

[Chrono'99]

Oops, looks like I was scooped. Chrono'99 posted this nearly a year ago. My bad, Chrono'99. I hope my ideas on their staying in the forest was original, at least.

No problem. Great minds think alike, maybe^^

[koolkame]

Glad you're not mad, Chrono'99.

No problem. Great minds think alike, maybe^^

Thanks for that. When I played CC I was constantly looking for hints of CT, and I was strangely happy when Grobyc used his Rocket Punch on me. That's when the Robo-Porre Theory started for me.

Speaking of Grobyc, I noticed the earlier posts about the super-weapon in Chronopolis and I remembered the first time I found it. I always assumed it was an antique one of the staff owned, like a Civil War rifle. That would explain why Norris was shocked at its completion.
 
Other posts have speculated on the Masamune and its corruption, and I have another theory to present. Mind you, this isn't mine; I found it in an excellent fanfiction on Fanfiction.net by Demon-Fighter Ash and I make no claim to his stories or ideas. I happen to like his stories and have emailed him to beg for a continuation to his latest fic with no response. I recommend giving him a look-see for anybody interested in Chrono fics, and I'll try to keep it as spoiler-free as possible.

The cause of the corruption of the holy sword Masamune may be none other than Lynx. He suppresses Masa and Mune using the power of Fate and Lavos' unrestrained power corrupts the sword. This fits into the game and could explain why Lynx is so knowledgeable of the sword and able to wield it addter Karsh kills Dario. The last sentence is pure speculation on my part, but Ash's fics have similar themes to some of the articles at the compendium, (infinite Lavos, Fate's interference with Porre) meaning he may have skimmed the site or had similar ideas.

Again, the Lynx-Masamune Theory is Demon-fighter Ash's and not mine. I'd hate to be accused of stealing another fan's work, especially one whose writing I admire.

[razor's edge]

About the Masamune, and it becoming evil, I have a theory which (I think) no one has come up with.   Ok, up until 600 AD, anyone who wanted to wield the Masamune would have to first beat the test of Masa and Mune, first separately, and then their full power.  Only Cyrus, and then Crono & Co have been able to beat that test, as before you fight Masa & Mune combined, they say that only Cyrus got that far.  We can probably assume that many others had tried for it before, and failed.  Now, after Glenn presumably returns the sword to Denadoro, Masa & Mune sleep 'til awakened in CC, although the sword still contains energy stored from Lavos.  But the sword obviously isn't in Denadoro at the end of CT, so someone would've had to take it out of there, most likely from Guardia.  Ok, now here's where my theory actually comes in:  if Masa & Mune are sleeping, then who's there to give the test? Masa & Mune's test was to determine if the possible wielder is worthy and strong enough to use the Masamune, but since they are asleep, the Lavos energy is left uncontrolled, and instead of the normal test, it is more of a test of the wielder's will versus the remnants of Lavos in the sword.  Win, and wielder controls sword. Lose, and sword controls wielder, preying upon their fears and evils within their body and mind, and Masamune becomes the demonsword.  The sword then stays that way until someone who passes the "test" comes in possession of it, Serge, thereby neutralizing, if not eradicating, the Lavos remnants contained within the sword.

[Peaceman]

hmmm...
I've never really thought about it that way before.  That IS a good argument, but I wonder what ZeaLitY or VT would say...

[GreenGannon]

I think the test only occurs when something happens to the sword. There were two tests mentioned:

A. Pre-600 AD Masamune vs. Cyrus. (Occurs After the Ocean Palace incident)

B. 600 AD after Magus split the sword in two.

[ZeaLitY]

Noting a new possibility: As the explanation goes that the "Black Wind" unit got their name from Magus's speeches or Mystic references, perhaps that unit was charged with researching magic in Medina, and that rudimentary usage could have contributed to Guardia's defeat.

[Sentenal]

But Norris never showed any signs of being able to use magic.  Maybe they were in charge of simply attacking Medina?

[Shadow_Dragon]

I think most people misjudge the line of Masa(or Mune?) where he tells the other to wake up or w/e, cuz he also says something that makes it seem as if they were awake during the destructive phase of the Masamune... however, the game script on gamefaqs isnt working for me (it won't load anything past the scene in the Dead Sea with Miguel)

anyway, i think that Masa and Mune were only asleep during the fight with Dario, not since Glenn put the sword back

[ZeaLitY]

Just a curiosity.  
There's a glass picture in Viper Manor Library. It show the figure of a woman with a forest in the background.  So there's a possibility that it show Fiona.  But , if this is true, in which context? Religious? Historic ? Family?

Nice find. If it's really Fiona, and since Viper Manor was built by Porre, maybe it means she (and her forest) was important in Porre's history, or more precisely in the rise of Porre.