CE Resolutions and Magus' role in CC:DBT

[FaustWolf]

Heeeey, it's a visitor!

I hope to get a project forum going for Chrono Cross: The Darkness Beyond Time in a few weeks, and at that point plotwork will begin on that project. To give some quick background, I'm hoping to make CC:DBT a sequel to Crimson Echoes that plays off the idea that Magus remains behind with Schala at the end of CE. I suppose the implication would normally be that Magus perishes, explaining his absence in Chrono Cross. In the DBT set of dimensions, Schala decides to re-shape Magus into her perception of how he would have turned out had he grown into adulthood as Janus, suppressing the Magus personality (though not destroying it) as a side effect. She sends modified-Magus, a.k.a., Magil, to 1004 along with baby Kid.

I had originally planned to address the Fall of Guardia under these new circumstances, but Vehek notified me that the CE team will also be addressing the events of 1005, which I was not aware of (though now that I read the CE draft again, I should have picked up on it). Sooo, question: How are you guys addressing the Fall? The latest plot draft hints that King Zeal may have been involved. Was he the one to make the Masamune cursed then? What other aspects of the Fall of Guardia have you planned out?

Also, consider the CC:DBT plotline at your disposal if you want to continue developing certain characters or concepts introduced in CE. We played off your project, so you might as well play off ours if it's advantageous to you at all. To see where the plotline of CC:DBT was originally headed, a simple eventline developed by Satoh and I (soon to be with credit to Thought for his analysis of the history of the rise of Porre and Dark_Ansem for plot elements I haven't introduced yet) can be found here:
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php/topic,5177.msg99133.html#msg99133

CC:DBT is a hack of Chrono Cross, and will use both fan-developed resources (Satoh, BROJ, and others are kicking ass at that right now) and resources pulled from other Square games if it seems they can fit within the Chrono world. I think a reasonable estimate is that the project will take 5 years from kickoff to finish. We don't have anything like Temporal Flux at our disposal, but having worked with Chrono Cross' data, I can say that it's probably the easiest-to-hack-game out there - surprisingly so. Had this been FF7 I would have been lost in .MIMs and compressed animations, but this is logical and awesome. A general LZSS compressor/decompressor, a model importer, a model exporter (of which Luminaire85 has coded the major portion), a .BMP > .TIM converter (which we have), and maybe an .AVI > .STR converter, and we could rebuild a Chrono Cross disc image with sheer elbow grease given our expanding knowledge.

[Vehek]

There's also another idea, by Chrono'99.
http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=2565.0.html
Magus and CT Glenn get hit with illusions from the Frozen Flame and mistake the people and soldiers of Guardia for monsters. So they go around slaughtering everyone, and cause the Fall of Guardia.
Crono's team takes Porre's side to stop Magus and Glenn, but are unable to completely stop the Fall of Guardia. "Marle remains the Queen, but Guardia becomes a satellite state of Porre".

At the end of CE, Magus is in some secret lair.

[FaustWolf]

WOW, okay, thanks Vehek. Were there ideas being tossed around as to what happens to King Crono when Frog and Magus are on a rampage? Or to Crono's fate afterward?

If the Fall of Guardia occurs during CE, and then the resolution of CE introduces a new element into the timeline (e.g., Magil), things would get incredibly interesting, to say the least. To avoid confusion, it may be best for me to suggest that Magil appears just after the Fall of Guardia, and many of the events I was thinking about could be ported over to a post-fall crackdown on the Radical Dreamers.

Any more on the secret lair that Magus is in at the end of CE? The plot draft I read (ver. 4) indicates that we see him last with Schala who's stuck on the Time Devourer, and then there's a scene with Magus talking to King Zeal.

[Vehek]

I don't think anything's been said about Crono. It's mentioned that he'll be exhausted if he tries to stop King Zeal at the Fall of Guardia (under "King Zeal causes Fall" idea), but I don't know if it refers to time-traveling to the Fall of Guardia or if he's still weak 3 years after CE.

And the OMG moment:

Cut to a dark location, reminiscent of Magus's lair. A portal open, and Magus steps out. He walks north to a cell to reveal...King Zeal. He notes that he almost -- almost didn't save his father, and still cannot trust him. But he notes that it is extremely favorous that he was able to save King Zeal...as King Zeal holds the last key to mastering shadow magic and beginning to master time itself. He notes that no matter how long it takes, King Zeal will teach him the final power...and he will make his return.

This is said scene with King Zeal.

[FaustWolf]

Thanks Vehek, I LIKE. I shall have to ponder what the last scene means exactly...either the Magus-repressed-by-Schala idea should be scrapped in favor of something entirely different, or it's something that happens when Magus conquers time travel and Schala wants to put a stop to what she perceives as his growing lunacy (provided he approaches her in the DBT after conquering time and/or dimensional travel).

I guess I'll collect opinions from the CE Dream Team members here as to what you guys would like to have happen to Magus.


Also, in the thread you linked to Vehek, it seems that Crono becomes Miguel and his daughter Leena while there's room for Marle to do her resistance activities. Is the Crono = Miguel idea still in play?

Also, is the Reptite agent still going to deliver Elements to Porre during the ending?

Time to rename this thread...

[Vehek]

No, because that ending got junked. The Elements idea is gone and not really possible; Two of the reptile time travelers get killed and the last one just wants to live in the simpler prehistoric era.

I don't know how much you have to connect with CE, since CE is an interquel for Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross as in canon.

[FaustWolf]

True true, I understand that CE is meant to be self-contained and establish a setup for normal CC. However, if Magus announces that he's planning on a big return at the end of CE, and all he can show for it is Guile, it seems to me he might have gotten lost somewhere along the way. CC:DBT would presume that Magus' continuing quest could have had different outcomes. Within that set of possibilities lie events leading both to normal CC and CC:DBT. That is my intent, anyway.

EDIT: The Reptite not delivering Elements to Porre would actually be a slight boon to CC:DBT, as the current plot musings based on Thought's history of Porre thread assume Porre did not have Elements until some point after the Fall of Guardia. If you guys did decide that Elements should play a role in the Fall, though, CC:DBT could easily compensate.

[Agent 12]

I have not had time to read this in. Detail but barring some input from anyone else I plan on doing the illusion idea for the ending it gives a reason for kasmir and the fall

Jp

[FaustWolf]

Perfectly fine, do what you guys feel is right and CC:DBT shall compensate. Chrono'99 will be back at some point, and I'd be especially interested in what he and ZeaLitY have in mind currently. Is Hadriel still around?

[FaustWolf]

Two questions if everyone doesn't mind:

1.) If Crono & Co. minus Magus and Frog go to 1005 to combat Magus and Frog while these two are under Kasmir's spell, are Crono & Co. going to usher King Crono and Queen Nadia to safety, or are they going to hightail it outta there once they've knocked some sense into the rampaging duo?

2.) If Crono and Marle learn the exact cause of the Fall of Guardia during Crimson Echoes, will it be explained why they didn't take action to avoid this the "second time around," so to speak? Crono and Marle will complete CE with the knowledge that Magus and Frog are going to be teleported there under Kasmir's illusions, and then they have to go through the experience themselves when 1005 rolls around again.

EDIT: I see that Crono is supposed to be exhausted (from his contact with the Entity?), and this is the reason why he doesn't prevent the Fall of Guardia. Does this ultimately mean that Marle and Lucca never learn of the true reason for Guardia's Fall? Does Crono have his memory wiped and forget to warn them about the Fall of Guardia?

Also, the current plot draft notes:
Also make sure Belthasar notes that Chronopolis will be pulled back by an attempt to get the flame.

Does this refer to the Time Crash occurring with the intent of nabbing the Frozen Flame from the past? The Frozen Flame is in Chronopolis to challenge Belthasar to a "grand game" at the end of CE, correct? Does the Frozen Flame that challenges Belthasar shunt itself into some temporal vortex to prevent its use for powering FATE, necessitating the Time Crash in some roundabout way?

[Vehek]

They should know, unless Crono goes by himself. Maybe it's too hard to stop Magus and Glenn before they cause damage.
In jsondaq's idea for it, they only snap out of it when Kasmir is beaten.

I think the "exhausted" thing is related to King Zeal being involved. (At some point during the plot writing, King Zeal visited the Fall of Guardia).

[FaustWolf]

Okay, I now realize that it's Lavos who's pulling Chronopolis back to 12,000 BC to get at the Frozen Flame stored in Chronopolis. Brilliant. Disregard that extra question at the end of my previous post then.

EDIT: Another epiphany I just realized -- is Crono so exhausted that he sits out the final battle with King Zeal in CE? I.e., the Fall of Guardia happens because being struck with the Entity emanation during the Dreamtime lends Crono some kind of permanent or at least long-term exhaustion?

EDIT: One last question for the time being: what happens to Gaspar and Melchior at the end of Crimson Echoes? Does Melchior return to the 1000 AD era, for example?