Author Topic: Kid explanation (I'm a n00b).  (Read 2546 times)

ZeaLitY

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Re: Kid explanation (I'm a n00b).
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2007, 07:11:06 pm »
It leaves me wondering about the timing then. If she's already married, then why does she write in her diary that she's still going to search for Serge?

Kyronea

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Re: Kid explanation (I'm a n00b).
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2007, 07:17:06 pm »
We can't really know...apart from the odd live video segment in the credits giving the impression that either Kid or Schala somehow ended up in another universe, there's no way to tell who ended up with whom, whether that really is Serge and Kid married in the photo(even with the concept art dictating it we can't take that for an absolute certainty because it is just concept art and we've got loads of concept art detailing many contradictory situations) or if it's two other people, or if somehow Serge was married to either one but then was lost...the ending is so open-ended we truly have no clue and thus all we're doing is speculating with a very shaky foundation.

grey_the_angel

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Re: Kid explanation (I'm a n00b).
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2007, 07:36:22 pm »
It leaves me wondering about the timing then. If she's already married, then why does she write in her diary that she's still going to search for Serge?
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Zaperking

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Re: Kid explanation (I'm a n00b).
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2007, 11:44:13 pm »
No, it isn't "retarded" and "arbitrary." I said study genetics...understand how it works and maybe you'll figure out it's not actually arbitrary.
I meant that you said it to my comment about Kid's pendant being irrelevant, when I was trying to explain her background x.x

A clone can be someone's daughter. Without the use of technology to speed aging, any clone will be born as an infant, not fully grown, and thus can be said to be the child of the cloned person.
But we must remember that Kid was created via magic, not technology, and magic doesn't just follow what we have learned to know. It is the CT world after all.

It doesn't matter what "most gamers think." What matters are the facts. Nothing states that Schala is not whole while living in the DBT. She is stated to be going insane and becoming a wretched individual due to the corruption on her mind the Lavos half of the Time Devourer exerts, but nothing ever states she is not whole.
I thought I had already stated it o.o In order to protect her sanity and good side, Schala used the last of her strength to create Kid, sealing her good side and sanity inside her. That's why I said that Kid is Schala's missing piece. After all, The Chrono Cross was used to save Schala. And guess what it's primary powers were? To merge two things that were once whole back into one being; To restore memories and to transfer them. This whole motif of things coming back into two is the games' motif and is clear everywhere (remerging of dimensions, characters, even Kid)

She doesn't have to be a doppelganger. You seem to be misinterpreting what clone really means. All it means is that the person is a copy of another person's DNA; nothing more. They don't have to be identical, or a missing piece of that person, or anything else. They simply share DNA. Kid is a completely different person from Schala, because she was raised differently, in a different timeline and different era of history. While I agree it would be "artful" if Kid were a missing piece of Schala, nothing states that she is. She certainly doesn't believe it herself, given her constant cries of being her own person.

I probably did at first, but I didn't really make my point clear. And then again, Kid doesn't have Schala's exact DNA. Like I said, if she was a real clone, she wouldn't have Schala's other part sealed in her, nor would Kid have different hair or eye color. Also, don't forget that Harle was created from the image of Schala (this is theorized only), yet her DNA is Dragonian, after all she is a Dragon.
Maybe it'd be just easier to cal Kid an avatar of Schala.
As for Kid crying about being her own person, Lucca states that that is probably what Schala would have wanted (in a way that sounds like she meant it was only for the time being).
Heck, it'd be more artistic if Kid does cry about her identity. It'd fully reflect Harle and Kid. After all, if Harle should have a tragic end, then so should Kid's being (even though she just becomes a part of Schala, and even alters Schala's personality).


This cut scene evidence and the fact that someone is married to Serge while the other is searching leaves the matter completely open.

I thought it was obvious that the photograph was taken after Schala, Kid, or Schala Kid, had found and married Serge. I mean, this is the only logical explanation.

So, the Kid on the boat cutscene seems to be the only piece of evidence which could support the non-merging theory.
True, but then we'd be ignoring the fact that the game stated that it was written by "Schala 'Kid' Zeal".

But I had a recent idea. What if that picture was taken from an alternate dimension or something?
What if the Kid sailing away was the Kid from the old future (the future where Belthasar got Kid to go and call Serge), or a Kid in a dimension where she didn't get together with Serge (hence him and Leena still happened).
That would explain why Schala is searching for Serge in another reality, since she can't have him in that dimension. I mean, after all, Serge did lose his memories (I think that him remembering Terra Tower and such may have been like just an artful effect for the player to play with their head, and Serge might forget it. It'd be to cruel to do that, and have Leena with him there).
And heck, the diary entry seems to be written in a tense that seems as if Schala is writing it before she heads off to look for him.

ZeaLitY

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Re: Kid explanation (I'm a n00b).
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2007, 11:58:21 pm »
We have reason and logical evidence to believe that Harle is the exact same genotype as Kid, and therefore Schala. One could allege that their brains would have to be different in the absence of souls, but we know that souls exist in the Chrono series, and that serves even more to solidify Kid's separate, though biologically identical existence. That speech about wanting to be her own person can be interpreted both ways.

Jesus Christ, none of this would matter if WE COULD FIND ONE PERSON LITERATE IN JAPANESE TO CONTACT KATO BY WAY OF HONNE OR TRANSLATE MISSING PIECE.

Kyronea

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Re: Kid explanation (I'm a n00b).
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2007, 12:06:55 am »
But we must remember that Kid was created via magic, not technology, and magic doesn't just follow what we have learned to know. It is the CT world after all.
Irrelevant. There is nothing that says it is different and thus we should not presume such a difference. Magic, even in the Chronoverse, is just not something that can do literally anything; it is simply the manipulation of reality and energy in a different manner than technology. In fact, I daresay it's not truly magic at all, so much as it is a physical property we have yet to understand fully.

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I thought I had already stated it o.o In order to protect her sanity and good side, Schala used the last of her strength to create Kid, sealing her good side and sanity inside her. That's why I said that Kid is Schala's missing piece. After all, The Chrono Cross was used to save Schala. And guess what it's primary powers were? To merge two things that were once whole back into one being; To restore memories and to transfer them. This whole motif of things coming back into two is the games' motif and is clear everywhere (remerging of dimensions, characters, even Kid)
Nothing states she actually sealed the "good and sane" portion of herself inside Kid, merely that she used Kid as a last ditch effort to preserve herself. Now, this can be interpreted to mean she placed a part of her personality inside Kid, and is more likely, but it hasn't been explicitely stated, and until it is I will lean more towards the scientific explanation for what occurred.

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I probably did at first, but I didn't really make my point clear. And then again, Kid doesn't have Schala's exact DNA. Like I said, if she was a real clone, she wouldn't have Schala's other part sealed in her, nor would Kid have different hair or eye color.
Incorrect. Even if Schala sealed a part of her personality inside Kid, she still has the same DNA. A clone is a clone is a clone. It doesn't matter the process of creation: you are copying DNA, and unless you can use magic to manipulate that DNA--and nothing has ever suggested Schala is capable of that--then the DNA is identical. Just because it is identical does not mean different genes cannot be expressed! We all contain the genes for the various eye colours and hair colours, yet we only express one particular kind. You copy the DNA of an individual and replicate it ten times, and you're bound to have difference in the appearences of those people.
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Also, don't forget that Harle was created from the image of Schala (this is theorized only), yet her DNA is Dragonian, after all she is a Dragon.
Her DNA is human combined with whatever makes up the Dragon God life form...it's possibly DNA, but since it is a plasma based energy life form we can't really say for certain. In any case, as you say, it is hypothosized only, though admittedly reasonably.
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Maybe it'd be just easier to cal Kid an avatar of Schala.
Perhaps.
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As for Kid crying about being her own person, Lucca states that that is probably what Schala would have wanted (in a way that sounds like she meant it was only for the time being).
What? Lucca never said it's what Schala would have wanted for the "time being." Kid is her own person and should continue to live her own life. If Schala is the good person we know her to be, then she would allow Kid to live her life, unless there was no other option at all, and thanks to the sheer open-endedness of the game, we simply cannot know unless Kato states what happened or a new game states what happened.
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Heck, it'd be more artistic if Kid does cry about her identity. It'd fully reflect Harle and Kid. After all, if Harle should have a tragic end, then so should Kid's being (even though she just becomes a part of Schala, and even alters Schala's personality).
Why should Kid deserve a tragic end? Harle didn't deserve the tragic end she received! Her fate was not set in stone, as fate simply does not exist. It could have been changed. She could have lived, and so can Kid. I again point out that the good person Schala is would not allow Kid to be expunged if Kid could live her own life, as she can since she is a seperate being.

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True, but then we'd be ignoring the fact that the game stated that it was written by "Schala 'Kid' Zeal".
You know, it is possible she adopted the name "Kid" as a nickname. It is placed in quotation marks, after all. Of course this is speculation and should not be taken as anything substantial, but thanks to the open-endedness of the ending we have nothing but speculation.
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But I had a recent idea. What if that picture was taken from an alternate dimension or something?
Now you're thinking!
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What if the Kid sailing away was the Kid from the old future (the future where Belthasar got Kid to go and call Serge), or a Kid in a dimension where she didn't get together with Serge (hence him and Leena still happened).
That would explain why Schala is searching for Serge in another reality, since she can't have him in that dimension. I mean, after all, Serge did lose his memories (I think that him remembering Terra Tower and such may have been like just an artful effect for the player to play with their head, and Serge might forget it. It'd be to cruel to do that, and have Leena with him there).
Yes, potentially. After all, it is quite likely Schala wound up in a parallel dimension after the events that occurred in the DBT and as such she might stumble upon a vast variety of different versions of Serge and thus is searching for her own Serge.
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And heck, the diary entry seems to be written in a tense that seems as if Schala is writing it before she heads off to look for him.
I agree.

Ninja EDIT:

Quote from: Zeality
We have reason and logical evidence to believe that Harle is the exact same genotype as Kid, and therefore Schala. One could allege that their brains would have to be different in the absence of souls, but we know that souls exist in the Chrono series, and that serves even more to solidify Kid's separate, though biologically identical existence. That speech about wanting to be her own person can be interpreted both ways.
But what is a soul in the Chronoverse? Since apparently everyone born by natural means has a soul, it may simply be a spiritual part linked to the biological organism that develops as a result of that organism being given life, meaning a clone may have a soul of his or her own as well. Of course, that's just speculation, but the question itself is worth asking.
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Jesus Christ, none of this would matter if WE COULD FIND ONE PERSON LITERATE IN JAPANESE TO CONTACT KATO BY WAY OF HONNE OR TRANSLATE MISSING PIECE.
Absolutely...so much information we're missing out on...
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 12:08:52 am by Kyronea »

Chrono'99

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Re: Kid explanation (I'm a n00b).
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2007, 05:08:45 am »
It leaves me wondering about the timing then. If she's already married, then why does she write in her diary that she's still going to search for Serge?

Well I've never thought that she was really writing this as we read it; I thought she was just reading something that she wrote some time or a long time ago. Kind of like Serge's grandson in RD (except in that case it was written by his grandfather, not himself). After having finished reading, she apparently closes the book and looks at her wedding photograph (perhaps smiling or something).

I think the ambiguity is more on the Kid on the boat scene... We don't know when that scene is supposed to take place. Could be sometime after the game and so it could point towards the non-merging. But it could also be a scene that happened sometime before the game, since the credits is full of flashbacks...

Vallery

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Re: Kid explanation (I'm a n00b).
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2007, 02:36:54 am »
I gotta say, as frustrating as it is not to know exactly what's going on, I'd say it's borderline genius to make a story so open-ended - truly memorable stories are those that call for tons of speculation. 
Not at the expense of it potentially not making sense, but minor details that are hinted at but aren't concretely resolved are amazingly brilliant additions to an epic storyline, I think.