Day of Silence

[Bard_of_Time]

Tomorrow is the Day of Silence, a day to be silent in a sort of protest against LGBT bullying. For those of you who don't know, LGBT means lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender. According to the Day of Silence page, two of the top three reasons for being harassed in school stems from either perceived sexual and gender preferences or ACTUAL sexual and gender preferences. In addition to this, 9/10 LGBT students have experienced or are experiencing harassment at school. This day is to show your support against these things and to hopefully bring with them awareness. 8000 high schools and middle schools registered for this event in 2008, so it can only go up from there.

I've seen bullying because of preference and gender related issues. My friend Danny considers himself to be male, and he and I hang out. However, Danny used to be Danielle and would often hang out with other girls. Since Danny has decided to go from Danielle to Daniel, both his male and female friends have been less than... supportive in his endeavor. The boys he used hang out with refer to him as a fag and try to 'put her back in her place' by not allowing them to join in such sports as basketball and whatnot. They can also be quite physically abusive, which just doesn't fly for me. The girls he used to be best friends with have repeatedly done more... damaging things than just a kick in the stomach or two. They leave him nasty notes saying that no one would like him anyway, they've broken into his locker and left more damaging things... and the teachers are just really confused by it all. They aren't entirely sure of what to do with him.

This is a big something for me. Danny and I are close, and I hate being the only one who actually gives a shit about him. I'm going to be participating tomorrow, and I implore all of you to participate as well. Not a word for about six hours.

Feel free to say why or why you aren't supporting this, or even to supply more materials. I'm sure I didn't get EVERYTHING in there.

[Manly Man]

The only thing I don't like about it is because I read Nineteen Eighty-Four, and with the 'Two-Minute Hate' tradition being based off of Great Britain's 'Two-Minute Silence,' the link between the two irritates me. But, that's about it on that part, and I otherwise support it wholly. I've had some serious issues with friends being gay or trans-'xxxx' and how people treated them. I once kicked some douche in the balls for making some... well, 'lewd' doesn't do it justice. But you know what I'm saying. I'm fiercely defensive of those who have different orientations or psychologically differing genders, or whatever else there may be that people wish to classify themselves with. If someone wants to be themselves, let them, or you can and will be thought of as a practitioner of total dickery.

[tushantin]

Passive Aggressiveness, aye? That's a good cause, though I'm not really aware much about this Day of Silence. You don't always have to fight fire with fire (come on, just don't give it air to burn), and Gandhi did say that if someone slaps you on one cheek, you say nothing and just show them the other. This shows that you're not afraid, that you're not worked up about petty feuds and that you don't give a fuck about those bullies or what they stand for. A bully would merely look like an idiot trying to punch a silent wall who ain't gonna back down. You WILL be victorious! Hope it all goes well for ya.

I wouldn't wanna open any wounds here, but I'm just curious. If Danielle was a woman, why would she wanna be a boy? If he was a boy, then what do you mean by... wait a second, I'm confused. 

[Bard_of_Time]

Danny and I have never really discussed why he wanted to change, other than a feeling like it would feel right. He hasn't gotten any treatment yet (because his healthcare provider has declared this to be a voluntary thing rather than necessary), so technically he IS a she. He just thinks of himself as a he.

[Manly Man]

There's a difference between transgender and transsexual. Transgender is when it's all on the inside, while transsexual is when you've actually changed physically. I've known a few people who were all in differing stages of their self-identification. One of them was a MtF pre-op who was actually much hotter than her friends, I've got an online friend who is an FtM transgender, although she's under the firm belief that unless she could be completely and legitimately turned into a man- as in, not just doing a few bits of turning things around and slapping other bits on- she won't do it. And, considering that my mother is a hairdresser and I've been to the salon a few times, I've met all sorts of other folk, and I know that just because they've been put in the wrong body or prefer those of the same gender, it doesn't make them any better or any worse. I've met gay men who, rather than following the weak, sensitive image that's been stuck to them, can be such big assholes that they would make make any of those bullies feel very small and insignificant, while I've also known very butch-looking women who were the kindest souls one could find, and far from the tough, nasty people most would think them to be.

[Lord J Esq]

I otherwise support it wholly. I've had some serious issues with friends being gay or trans-'xxxx' and how people treated them. I once kicked some douche in the balls for making some... well, 'lewd' doesn't do it justice. But you know what I'm saying. I'm fiercely defensive of those who have different orientations or psychologically differing genders, or whatever else there may be that people wish to classify themselves with. If someone wants to be themselves, let them, or you can and will be thought of as a practitioner of total dickery.

I find your comment very heartening. Honestly, I had stereotyped you as somebody who wouldn't be sensitive to LGBT issues. If the "manly men" are changing, then anti-queer prejudice may well indeed be brought to heel by the end of the century.

It's interesting how some prejudices go away with time, while others just cling and cling. Used to be you could get beat up for being Irish in the wrong neighborhood, or sent to the principal for preferring to use your left hand on schoolwork. Gone are those days, but you'll still find anti-black prejudice and misogyny everywhere you look. Perhaps it's because some prejudices have a socioeconomic base, while others are merely sociocultural. Blacks and females have constitutional amendments enshrining their suffrage. Left-handers and Irish were never a slave class.

Bard, your friend is probably even worse off than you realize. I appreciate your decency in being there for him. If he doesn't already know, you might tell him that there are many resources available, especially online, for people undergoing this kind of transition in their lives.

[tushantin]

Lord J and MM are right, Bard. But here's my two cents:

Just because a person prefers being the opposite gender doesn't mean they are, and if you're biologically blessed with something it makes you what you are regardless of the change. That said, concerning Human Rights, you can still freely change gender if you prefer that way but it just wouldn't make sense from a practical point of view. You don't need to change parts just to prove your points, and I have seen many born-to-be-women with manly stances (and one of them can even kick my ass), and have seen some fair share of girly guys too.

But I suppose there's no point in me saying this, because what's done is done, and right now I can simply offer support (someway or the other). I guess discrimination lies there, regardless of someone being open minded. In some cultures, transgender and transsexuality is so rare it's often considered a "freakdom", and I remember how a friend of mine was treated in such way just because he had long hair like a woman. When it comes to social norms, half of those pointless discriminations have a reason behind them; such as discrimination against Skin Color might be ridiculous, but discrimination against transsexuality is because they are aware that it's currently impossible to perfectly change one's gender and at times it has destroyed some people's lives. But differences do bring discrimination, and it eventually subsides as the society learns to be tolerant and considerate. And I'm sure, no matter how much these bullies try to "put her back in place" she'll not falter, not change her mind.  A person has the right to choose!

I hope the Day of Silence went well!

[Bard_of_Time]

Well, I just got in from school. The Day of Silence was well respected by those in the community, and I even saw a couple of people I didn't think would participate... participating. Some people were jerks about it, trying to make me talk, but... eh, what can I say?

Did anyone else participate?

[Syna]

Bard, your friend is very fortunate to have someone as supportive as you are by their side-- someone who sees them for who they are. It's something fundamentally human to want to be understood, for the perceptions of people we care about to align with our vision of ourselves. The companionship you're giving your friend is as necessary as any other need we have.

In short, you rock.

You don't need to change parts just to prove your points, and I have seen many born-to-be-women with manly stances (and one of them can even kick my ass), and have seen some fair share of girly guys too.

Tushantin, this is an argument that homosexuals often use against trans people, and I think I understand where you're coming from. You will likely never find an individual who is more pro-androgyny than I am-- period. And so despite being firmly pro-trans, I have privately experienced some of your confusion regarding why trans people make the choices they do; why can't they just be androgynous individuals?  

But I decided early on to give them the benefit of the doubt. As you say, people have the right to self-actualization. They have the fundamental right to shape their identity the way they wish. My belief is that gender dysphoria to the point of being transgender goes deeper than you and I could ever dream. There is evidence to suggest the brain of transgendered people looks different from those of their birth gender.  

I'm not sure you understand how blurry the lines of sex and gender are. Sex is biological, but if someone takes hormone therapy for years and has the proper surgeries, they simply cannot be called their birth gender any longer by any reasonable terms. Gender is an identity as defined by society and the individual. I'd suggest you study some basic anthropology on the subject.

Do you have any idea how many contemplated suicide only to rediscover their love for life upon beginning transition, despite what an immense struggle transition is? The rates of trans "regret" are incredibly low-- 5 percent or lower-- and have to do with the stresses of transition, not because they were "mistaken."

I've known many transgendered folks-- talked to them, heard their stories, and listened to their reasons for wanting to change their bodies. I suggest you go out and read some of their testimonies. Be open to them. And for the love of god, if you have any respect for them whatsoever, refer to them by the gender they identify as, not their birth gender. I don't think you have any idea how hurtful it is to have such a basic aspect of their identity dismissed. Trans people typically experience a great deal of pain and hardship, including, but not limited to, abandonment by their families, losing their jobs, being mocked and ridiculed every day in the early stages in their transition. They don't need otherwise intelligent and sensitive people to ignore their needs on top of that.

[Manly Man]

Well, I've been participating since ten this morning.

[tushantin]

@Bard: Hah, see what being at the CC for even a few days does to ya?  You're already pumpin' with Springtime of Youth! You didn't back out even if they were a douche to ya! THAT'S THE SPIRIT WE'RE LOOKIN' FOR, MAH FRIEND!!  Congrats! (Trying to get ya to talk? If they'd do that to me, my finger would talk for me. XDDDD)

@Syna: Don't get me wrong, I'm not really against this sort of thing, but I merely find it confusing. Still, I do honestly believe that after a certain age a person is responsible for his/her own face (though I'm still skeptical about a woman managing to be a 100% man even with today's technology... I guess I should research more if I'm wrong). I'll keep your advise in mind, thanks for the heads up. And sorry if I came off sounding inconsiderate. 

[Syna]

@Syna: Don't get me wrong, I'm not really against this sort of thing, but I merely find it confusing. Still, I do honestly believe that after a certain age a person is responsible for his/her own face (though I'm still skeptical about a woman managing to be a 100% man even with today's technology... I guess I should research more if I'm wrong). I'll keep your advise in mind, thanks for the heads up. And sorry if I came off sounding inconsiderate.  

You didn't, and I appreciate that you were honest about your confusion. I'm trying to provide some perspective. I don't want to shut you down just for having some skepticism. At the same time, I don't want trans folk to have to suffer because people don't know where they're coming from.

It's true that FtM surgery is not comprehensive (MtF surgery is moreso, from what I understand), but gender is more than your parts, right? I mean. How would you classify someone with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome? (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002163/ - basically, a condition in which people with XY chromosomes have the physiology of women.)

[tushantin]

At the same time, I don't want trans folk to have to suffer because people don't know where they're coming from.

*Hands up* Feel free to hurt my feelings, babe, if it means to protect something much more important. XD I've got thick skin, but it'd sadden us to see a bigger misfortune, especially to we ought to sympathize with most.

Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome is something that complicates matters, especially when someone's social life is at stake. I may be wrong, but there probably are treatments to correct the insensitivity, but if that doesn't work there's a good chance that they might develop cancer. Gender change, in the end, would remain a choice of the individual and I'm completely against having their decisions being negatively influenced by peer pressure, or in short, telling them to do something they're not comfortable doing. This can have devastating effects later in life. And if they do decide to go for the change, we ought to support them till the end.

Still, currently the only significance of gender differences in this modern age that come to mind Love/Passion, partner, best-buddy, feminine views and sentiments, and reproduction. Besides all that, I consider women as equal when it comes to intelligence, capabilities, rights, respect and as an overall person. Women are just as good as men. And this is exactly why sometimes I feel gender change isn't that necessary, thus leading to a never-ending confusion. No gender is necessarily better than the other.

[Syna]

I've got thick skin, but it'd sadden us to see a bigger misfortune, especially to we ought to sympathize with most.

Good! That's a refreshing attitude. It's hard not to take criticism in the name of social justice personally when it involves one's demographic or one's opinions, but it must be done for the sake of the greater good.

I may be wrong, but there probably are treatments to correct the insensitivity, but if that doesn't work there's a good chance that they might develop cancer.

But that's the problem, that notion of "correcting": hormonally, these people are males; socially, they're females. Often, the syndrome goes undiagnosed until after the individual has begun to develop a fixed identity. Hormonal makeup and socialization can be incredibly strong contributing factors to the development of self-identity, so attempting to "correct" the syndrome can be traumatizing.

However, we agree on how they should be treated: the individual is entirely responsible for their own body and any changes to it.

Women are just as good as men. And this is exactly why sometimes I feel gender change isn't that necessary, thus leading to a never-ending confusion. No gender is necessarily better than the other.

Your attitude is again refreshing, but I think you underestimate the power of socialization in this respect. Being trans is about self-image and self-identity and gender still informs that in a powerful way.

It's not as much about being able to do what the opposite gender does: it's about your exterior reflecting your interior.

Also, bear in mind that a good number of transgendered people are not androgynous (though not, of course, all). Most transwomen I've met have been far more feminine than I consider myself to be. Some believe this a reaction to being trans, but again, we come to the idea that it is far more polite and respectful to take them at their word. The fact remains that plenty of trans people want to act, for the most part, within the gender binary (as is their right), and that is easier and more satisfying for them to do as the opposite gender.