Chrono Movie: Should some of the characters have accents?

[MitchelHunt]

I want to know what the public wants out of my Chrono Movie. I don't think yet who would have what accent if any, but if you have any suggestions, post em here! I'm all for knowing

I only have one suggestion myself:

The People of Zeal: English Accent (Like in Read Or Die)

[Daniel Krispin]

No, English doesn't sound right at all. Zeal is ancient, but the current English accent is very modern, and is quite different from the way ancient languages were spoken.

Now, of course the 'modern' time would need little in the way of accents.

A change in syntax would take care of 600AD; accent is really not neccessary though (and by syntax, I mean sentence structuture, and style of speech, making it more formal. I DO NOT mean using the old form of certain prepositions, such as 'thee' for the object 'you', ;thou' for the subject 'you', 'thy' for a possessive if a consonant follows it - 'thine' if it is a vowel. etc. That can be done, but even that form is little more than a few hundred years old, and was still commonly used not two hundred years ago.) For old syntax, study Shakespear - though that even for its time was a tad formal - and for such a thing as this, perhaps Malory's Mort D'arthur. Look carefully at the synonymn word usage, and the way in which people say things. Do not use any colloquialism, and stray away from colloquial words, even (personally, in that vein, to give it a more antiquated feel, I never use long scientific or modern sounding words, and even refrain from 'blonde', substituting 'golden' or 'fair', or any other such words as are ancient.) I can't think of a precise example now for the exact manner in which this should be done, but sufficed to say, there should be no recent words, modern dialogue, or colloquial phrases in that period whatsoever. But as I said, accents are really not neccessary

Likewise, the game already sets up a syntax differentiation for prehistoric times, so following that would really not need an accent difference. I trust it would be plain to everyone how to do caveman speak.

Finally, Zeal. Now here, I would have a lot to say, so perhaps I should attempt to temper it. Keep in mind, also, that this is the way I would do things for such a project, to give it the requisite ancient feel.

Now, the accent. As I said, it should certainly not be English, whatever else it may be. Say more Greek, or the way it sounds when people from the Middle East speak slightly broken English (important in this is that the r's are all trilled or rolled - that is done in Greek, and I think in the Arabic/Semitic languages as well. Since Greek and many of those languages are quite old, it may be advisable to follow some of their conventions.) Zeal, after all, has a far more Middle-Eastern/Eastern feel than it does of the high north. The names of Belthesar, Gaspar, and Melchior, are even Middle-Eastern names. So, essentially, if you can pull of an Arabic or Greek sound to the accent, with trilled r's (take note of how Aragorn or any of the Elves say their Elvish words in Lord of the Rings, words such as Mordor. They trill the r's there), that would be for the best. Also, and this is personal preference based upon what I have myself done in the past, if you want further realism for the ways in which the people of Zeal speak and act, make up a language for them and throw in a few words and line in it amidst their dialogue. It does much to further the old feel and sense of realism. If you don't want to bother making one up - because it's hard, to be sure - something like, say, ancient Greek has a good sound to it. Let's see if I can find a phrase somewhere to exemplify it...
menin aedie thea Paylayiadeaw Akhilayos ouliomenayn hay moori Akhaiois alne ethayke pollas d iphthimious psookhas Aidi proiapsen ayrawn de elawria teukhe koonessin oiawnoisi te pasi Dios d eteleieto Boulay eksou day ta prawta diastaytayn erisante Atreidays te anaks andrawn kai dios Akhilleus.
Alright, that appears bad because I was working off a horrid script, and tried to make it phonetic (because the Greek letters don't neccessarially correspond to English). So that's basically how you'd pronounce it... sort of. It's difficult to show. But that is, probably without doubt, the most epic introduction ever written in history.

[Zaperking]

1. No American Accents.
2. No Aussie Accents.

Now this is what I think. There was never any evidence that the people of Zeal poke another language, yet had any accents. To have accents would make them impure or something.
What I was thinking is to make them sound really demeaning to others. Like when the lady in Zeal talks to Crono and co "Oh, You poor things. Your magic is weaker than ours" make her sound sympathetic but in this really fake/bitchy way, even sarcastic way.

As for the Earthbound ones, make them sound really gloomy, but like when Melchior and the Aggety Leader see Crono going to destroy the Mammon Machine, make them bright up abit with more inthusiasm.

As for Ayla and the 65,000,000BC people, make sure they have alot of "Ahhh..." Like they're trying to think what to say. Dunno if they'd use Umms since thats a modern day filler.

600AD people would probably just speak in an old english way like "Ye Old" or something but also in an enthusiastic way.

1000AD People would speak normally, with the Umms and modern day fillers XD

2300AD People should seem really gloomy, like not even paying attention to you, like they're talking to themselves like someone who is depressed on the way to suicide or something.

Either way, You can do what you want. Just an idea ^^

[Daniel Krispin]

Now this is what I think. There was never any evidence that the people of Zeal poke another language, yet had any accents. To have accents would make them impure or something.
What I was thinking is to make them sound really demeaning to others. Like when the lady in Zeal talks to Crono and co "Oh, You poor things. Your magic is weaker than ours" make her sound sympathetic but in this really fake/bitchy way, even sarcastic way.

I disagree, however. There are plainly other languages, ranging from Greek to Latin and so forth. Thus linguistic development does take place. It then absolutely inconceivable that no language change would occur. Moreoever, linguistics adds a certain touch and element of realism that would not otherwise be there. On the contrary to them sounding impure, it makes them sound ancient, of an older age. Personally, if I were to hear them speak in a normal speech in a movie, I would find something greatly amiss. Remember Lord of the Rings, and how often the Elves delve into either Quenya or Sindarin, and how their accents remain even through the common speech, as do certain words? It is true that certain things are changed for the sake of storytelling, but care must be taken to make it seem feigned-authentic nonetheless. After all, if there were no other language, we would have no Gandalf in Lord of the Rings, no Legolas, and so forth. It would be, at least for those two, Staff-Elf and Greenleaf (the exception being Sam, which IS translated into English, from the Hobbit name Banazir.) Thus language is apparent even in names, and for continuity, pronounciation and accent must follow. The same would hold true in Chrono Trigger. To have r's trilled and all has always seemed a higher form of pronounciation to me, and the English we speak now seems very debased and un-noble. To have those of Zeal speak like some American (I don't mean southern, I mean what we consider a common dialect there / here in Canada) would quite diminish their mighty glory.

I still say you should go, if you can, with a more eastern accent. Try... hmmm... you know Ardeth Bay from the Mummy? That sort of Middle-Eastern accent might work very well for Zeal, I think.

[MitchelHunt]

okay thanks for all your input. i think i know what im going to do now

[SilentMartyr]

As for the Earthbound ones, make them sound really gloomy, but like when Melchior and the Aggety Leader see Crono going to destroy the Mammon Machine, make them bright up abit with more inthusiasm.

This I like, and I think there sense of gloom and dispair should nearly match the feelings of the 2300 surviviors. Obiviously the languages would be different, but they would have the same sense of complete loss of hope.

As for Ayla and the 65,000,000BC people, make sure they have alot of "Ahhh..." Like they're trying to think what to say. Dunno if they'd use Umms since thats a modern day filler.

If I saw this used in the movie I would stop watching, no joke. These people are not slow or dumb, they just are learning thier language from a different races. I don't remember if I said this here or at CTNP but I would like to see anyone try and learn the full language under those conditions, it would be impossible. This is probably the main reason why 65M and 12K should have such drastic differences in language. Ayla's people never got enought time to fully grasp the reptite language, so they had to fill in for the words they never heard the reptites say. Ayla had already started the process, she named Lavos! And that stuck throughout the entire spectrum of time up until the death of humans. Thats a pretty powerful name if you ask me, and having someone that is saying fillers every third word just can't portray that kind of intellegence. And don't even get me started on her ability to cope with drastic change. [/rant]

Ayla is my second favortie character, right behind Crono. So when I see stuff like this go on I can't not say my peice.

[Daniel Krispin]

600AD people would probably just speak in an old english way like "Ye Old" or something but also in an enthusiastic way.

I forgot to comment on this. I would say most certain do not do something like this unless you truly know what you are doing. Because - and I don't think this is common knowledge - 'ye old' is pronounced no differently than 'the old'. The 'y' is not, in fact, a y. It hearkens from a time when printing was new and, when they began printing in the Latin script, they could find no fitting symbol for the English 'th', which before had been written with the rune 'thorn'. Thus they decided to use a 'y' - and presumably later simply th - to denote that sound. Thus people would not have said it as most read it, and it just serves to confuse. As I said also, things like thy and thine are often mixed up. It took me looking the bloody words up to figure out the difference: both are second person possessive, but the thy is used before consonants, and the thine before vowels. But like I said, an old sound hearkens far more from syntax and choice of words, even common, rather than using old pronouns. If you simply forego contractions, change around sentence structure, make use of smaller words - ie. no longer scientific words - and make greater use of certain other words, it can give a better effect. I'll look for a random LotR quote here to exemplify it:
'Folly it may seem,' said Haldir. 'Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him. Yet so little faith and trust do we find now in the world beyond Lothlorien, unless maybe in Rivendell, that we dare not by our own trust endanger our land. We live now upon an island amid many perils, and our hands are more often upon the bowstring than upon the harp.'
See? No old pronouns. Nothing hard to understand, really. But it seems old nonetheless.

[MitchelHunt]

600AD people would probably just speak in an old english way like "Ye Old" or something but also in an enthusiastic way.

I forgot to comment on this. I would say most certain do not do something like this unless you truly know what you are doing. Because - and I don't think this is common knowledge - 'ye old' is pronounced no differently than 'the old'. The 'y' is not, in fact, a y. It hearkens from a time when printing was new and, when they began printing in the Latin script, they could find no fitting symbol for the English 'th', which before had been written with the rune 'thorn'. Thus they decided to use a 'y' - and presumably later simply th - to denote that sound. Thus people would not have said it as most read it, and it just serves to confuse. As I said also, things like thy and thine are often mixed up. It took me looking the bloody words up to figure out the difference: both are second person possessive, but the thy is used before consonants, and the thine before vowels. But like I said, an old sound hearkens far more from syntax and choice of words, even common, rather than using old pronouns. If you simply forego contractions, change around sentence structure, make use of smaller words - ie. no longer scientific words - and make greater use of certain other words, it can give a better effect. I'll look for a random LotR quote here to exemplify it:
'Folly it may seem,' said Haldir. 'Indeed in nothing is the power of the Dark Lord more clearly shown than in the estrangement that divides all those who still oppose him. Yet so little faith and trust do we find now in the world beyond Lothlorien, unless maybe in Rivendell, that we dare not by our own trust endanger our land. We live now upon an island amid many perils, and our hands are more often upon the bowstring than upon the harp.'
See? No old pronouns. Nothing hard to understand, really. But it seems old nonetheless.

I see. Well I think I get the jist, (is that how you spell that?), because my sister was in TONS of plays like that with TONS of different accents. So I think/hope I know what I'm doing now

[V_Translanka]

Just make them understandable and not completely off-kelter with how they look and you'll do fine...I imagine the Zealian tongue to sound somewhat...smoky (sp?)...I don't know how else to put it...

[Zaperking]

^
Lol, Yeah. Especially with the people in Kajar, or was it Enhasa? Yeah, make the people in Enhasa sound smokey and high cuz they're half asleep.

Just a note: I was basiaclly sterotyping what Ayla would be like, or the 600AD people. Ye Old Yakra XD

But Daniel, the only problem with your consept is that Chrono Trigger was also Japanese (duh) where there were no Latin things, I prosume. The names all had puns on them, like Janus was Jaki meaning bad energy. even Melchior, Gaspar and Belthasar weren't named after the biblical ones, but after some gods or something.

Also relating to the language, It doesn't really seem like there are any languages, just one. Kinda like a plot hole. I remember in some games like Lufia where you had to learn a language in a side quest to talk to some people, or they'd run away. In the Chrono Series, this is never implied, hence probably not true. Lets not get your fantasies running wild, eh But its just the english verion of Chrono Trigger that shows names coming from the Middle East, etc.

If Ayla can understand what Janus and all the other people say in 12,000BC etc that means that there was ever only one language, and still is. Geez, even the Robots speak english xD Atrapos and Promethius.

Off Topic:
Isn't Atrapos one of the Greek Fates? So where are the other 2? Is the Atrapos from CT the Atrapos Records of Fate in CC?

[Daniel Krispin]

^
Lol, Yeah. Especially with the people in Kajar, or was it Enhasa? Yeah, make the people in Enhasa sound smokey and high cuz they're half asleep.

Just a note: I was basiaclly sterotyping what Ayla would be like, or the 600AD people. Ye Old Yakra XD

But Daniel, the only problem with your consept is that Chrono Trigger was also Japanese (duh) where there were no Latin things, I prosume. The names all had puns on them, like Janus was Jaki meaning bad energy. even Melchior, Gaspar and Belthasar weren't named after the biblical ones, but after some gods or something.

The three Gurus are in fact ancient Christian legend: they are the names for the Magi that visited Jesus in Bethlehem. There is no other instance, especially in a pantheon, of these three names occurring together. Belthasar contains the word 'Bel', which is 'Lord', and is often attributed to any high god (even the Judeo Christian one) as a generic name, and Melchior a word for 'king', but beyond that, there are no references to any godhood or hero-tales. They are specifically the wise-men of legend.

Furthermore, I presume there may well have been Latin in the original Japanese. I don't know the script in that - anyone? - but it is likely possible that names such as Chronopolis - Greek - and the lines Angelus Errare and Res Nulles - both Latin - were the same in the original. After all, the Japanese call it 'Final Fantasy', which is English. And - although I've never played any of these - I've seen manifold names for games on RPGfan that contain ancient words. Latin and the like is a worldwide scholarly language, not anymore a language of common speech, so it could well be possible that it was used.

Also relating to the language, It doesn't really seem like there are any languages, just one. Kinda like a plot hole. I remember in some games like Lufia where you had to learn a language in a side quest to talk to some people, or they'd run away. In the Chrono Series, this is never implied, hence probably not true. Lets not get your fantasies running wild, eh But its just the english verion of Chrono Trigger that shows names coming from the Middle East, etc.

You are mistaken here. There are plainly other scripts - the Masamune contains them. There is the spellcraft of Magus within his dark fortress - remember his incantation? That is plainly another language. Also, the name of Lavos himself is of another tongue, which is Ayla's. Remember: 'La' is 'great' and 'Vos' is 'fire'. Thus another language exists even in antiquity. Thus it is not only implied, it is expicitly shown. And as far as 'only the English version' well... there are many things only from the English version, and half of what's on the Compendium is based solely on the English version. From what I've seen, it's deeper in allusion, and better written. And I'm an English speaker, and I assume you are, too, so the English version is the one we'll be trusting here.

Point proven?

If Ayla can understand what Janus and all the other people say in 12,000BC etc that means that there was ever only one language, and still is. Geez, even the Robots speak english xD Atrapos and Promethius.

Well, as I said previously, Ayla does have another language. The commonality of understanding is merely a game quirk. Robots can translate, and perhaps the Zeal minds could read purpose and meaning in the words, even of another tongue. I've seen such things in tales before. In the vast city of Charn in The Magician's Nephew, there are letters upon a bell in another script that, while they do not change, suddenly make themselves understandable to the character Diggory as he looks at them. So far as magic is concerned, it is conceivable. Ayla is not so easily explained, but it could just be a game quirk, remember.

Off Topic:
Isn't Atrapos one of the Greek Fates? So where are the other 2? Is the Atrapos from CT the Atrapos Records of Fate in CC?

Atropos is one of the fates, certainly. I doubt that the fate structure in the Sea of Eden is the same as the robot from CT, though. It is merely a name. Atropos, Lacheisis, and Clotho. I'll check for correct spelling shortly.

Update:

Alright...

Atropos is what it is, and interestingly, it is used often, it seems, in the lowercase, ie. not as a name of one of the fates proper, but as a word. In this case it means 'unchanging, eternal.' 'Tropos' is 'turn, direction, way', thus it makes sense that Atropos is 'not turning, etc.'

'Clotho' is spelled Klwthes (where the w is an omega). Its defenition is given as 'the spinners', which in this plural sense is 'the Goddesses of fate'. Klwthw is 'to twist by spinning, spin'. It appears that this is the name both of a single one of the Three, and of the group as a whole, though I cannot be certain based solely upon dictionary entries.

'Lachesis' is also spelled right, mostly. Only that the ch is actually a chi, and thus perhaps it would be more telling to spell it 'Lakhesis', but that is minor to most. This one is indeed listed as one of the three Fates, the meaning being 'Disposer of Lots'

As an interesting note, the dictionary (which is a pain to use because you have to transliterate the letters, figuring out what they use for such non-english letters as omega, theta, eta, etc.) gives a little line from some classical work with each entry. The line in which Clotho is mentioned also mentions another word, which translates as 'goddess of destiny' (this is a nice dictionary in that one may click on each word in the line and have it translated). This word is Aisa (I think; this bloody computer doesn't do Greek letters very well, so there may be some missing betweein the iota and the sigma). Just a point of interest, I thought.

I also found the three Fates mentioned in a list of sorts by some Greek author, but unfortunately, though the dictionary translates each word if one clicks on it, it does nothing to aid the grammar, thus to an English speaker as myself the word order is confusing at best. From what it seems to be, though it is listing the origins of things, almost like Hesiod. It mentions peacetime and order, and if I read it right, it seems like is says these come from the three Fates, which it mentions thereafter, which in turn appear to come from some deity I do not know (Diawnays, phonetically). But then it mentions Aphrodite, and where she comes from, then the muses, etc. It was just interesting to see them mentioned and where they stand in the order of things (if I read that right, that is.)

[V_Translanka]

Uh, that's...Not what I meant by 'smoky'...

Anyhow...I think ZaperKing was talking about the Guru's original, japanese names of Bash, Mash & Smash or w/e...He was saying how there wasn't any of that kind of latin stuff in the pre-Ted, I think...

Personally, I don't think there really has to be many languages in Chrono World. This is based on the fact that the Chrono world is so seemingly small...I just don't think there are a deverse enough amount of people to need more than one (or two, for the Mystics) language...

[Zaperking]

^
Yeah, Thats what I ment. They had Japanese names of some chinese legendary people or something.

Nice explanation on the Fates part, Daniel ^^

And alrighty, I'll say this. There are languages in their own right in the Chrono Universe, just that it depends on the language that you understand of the version of the game that you're playing XD. I think the Ayla thing is kinda like a plot hole. Is her language reptite or what? Is she the founder of the 1000AD language? Weird.

[MitchelHunt]

^
Yeah, Thats what I ment. They had Japanese names of some chinese legendary people or something.

Nice explanation on the Fates part, Daniel ^^

And alrighty, I'll say this. There are languages in their own right in the Chrono Universe, just that it depends on the language that you understand of the version of the game that you're playing XD. I think the Ayla thing is kinda like a plot hole. Is her language reptite or what? Is she the founder of the 1000AD language? Weird.

hmmm. it seems that here KIND is the founder, other than the reptites. but im obviously going to have to go with english due to the audience watching, and the other characters in the game.

[SilentMartyr]

No, if you wanted it to be right the humans learned parts of the reptite speech up until Lavos's decent. When the reptites went extinct they had to fill in the rest of the language. This would have lead to the Zealite language. And after the Fall of Zeal there would have been a new language comprised of the Earthbound and Zeal tounge. Thatw ould have lead to 1000 A.D.