You Don't Need The Pendant To Open The Gates

[ZeaLitY]

Questions raised:

1. If Marle changes history when she goes back in time, how do Crono and Lucca still travel to 600 A.D. from their home version of 1000 A.D.?

~

1. Telepod Paradox

Inquiry

If Marle changes history when she goes back in time, how do Crono and Lucca still travel to 600 A.D. from their home version of 1000 A.D.? The rest of the series dictates that as soon as changes are made to the past, the future changes resultingly in an instant. If Marle went back in time and significantly disrupted the Guardia history, 1000 A.D. would change; the Mystic War may not have been won, or the royal family may have simply changed bloodlines. In any event, the same 1000 A.D. would not exist as it was known to Crono and Lucca, yet they are still able to pursue Marle in time. How is this possible? Conceivably, another Crono and Lucca could find their way through time in an alternative timeline created by Marle's disruption in the past, but this Crono and Lucca would have no recollection of Marle. Despite applicable theories, this is probably a plot hole with no intended workaround by the creators.

Theories

Leene Survival

Eriol, GrayLensman, Leebot

Leene is found despite Marle's introduction to the era anyway, meaning history is preserved normally (provided Marle doesn't much around too much and dies peacefully of old age) until the modern era. This would allow the same 1000 A.D. to roughly exist. The only problem here is that Marle is said to have disappeared (see Marle Paradox). Even if she did, her disappearance would have served as motivation for the soldiers to find the real Leene, which resolves that loose end. If this is the case (with Leene surviving; note that Frog was on his way to rescue her anyway), we have the following series of events:

1. When Marle initially time travels to 600 AD, her presence in the past results in a new timeline being formed, sending the original timeline to the DBT.

2. In 1000 AD, Crono and Lucca are instantaneously discared and replaced by new versions of themselves. Since they still exist and remember Marle time traveled, in this timeline the Guardia royal line was not interrupted.

3. When Crono traveled through the warp, another timeline was created in which both Crono and Marle exist in the past. In 1000 AD, another new version of Lucca is created. Since Lucca still exists and remembers Marle and Crono time traveling, the Guardia royal line was not interrupted in this timeline either.

4. After Lucca constructs the Gate Key, she follows after Crono and Marle, creating another new timeline consisting of the events witnessed in the game. Queen Leene doesn't die because Crono saves her. Marle disappears, supposidly because she doesn't exist in the timeline. The future version of Marle may or may not exist.

5. Once Lucca, Marle and Crono return to 1000 AD, the timeline is not noticably changed from the original. If the new version of Marle didn't exist in the previous timeline, she does now.

The effects of Crono and Lucca's actions immediately and instantaniously affect the timeline when they emerge in 600 AD. The future doesn't change as they act, except when time traveling. From the perspective of 1000 AD, all of the time travelers actions have already occured once they emerge in 600 AD.

Super Warp Protection

ZeaLitY

This theory assumes that Marle caused a significant disruption in 600 A.D. that would alter the future. When Lucca built the Telepod, she most likely tested it herself. Crono then used it at the Millennial Fair, and Marle finally used it to go to 600 A.D. Now, if the Telepod's warping is considered a form of time travel or dimensional distortion, then Time Traveler's Immunity may be invoked for Crono, Marle, and Lucca. This would take care of their preservation as individuals who know about Marle up until her disappearance into the past. The only problem remaining then is that the state of the Millennial Fair does not change either. It is a stretch, but perhaps Marle's disruption did not significantly affect history, and events played out mostly the same to result in a Millennial Fair at that time

[GrayLensman]

I think you double posted there, Zeality.

It is also possible that Crono and Marle left a message for Lucca after they were stranded in the past.

[Julford]

All we know is that after Marle goes into the past, the timeline is not changed drastically enough to result in Crono and Lucca never going back in time; the same holds true for when Crono goes back into 600 AD, as well.

However, Lucca did SOMETHING in 600 AD, which prevented Marle from ever existing. Upon Marle's disappearance, Crono and Lucca decide to rescue Leene themselves, and meet Frog, who presumably rescued Leene in all other timelines, alone or with Gaurdian sodiers.

What Lucca does does not matter; she HAD to be the reason for why Marle disappears when she does. Otherwise, it's a major plot-hole, and I think we're closer to an answer here than just giving up and saying "lost cause."

[ChronoMagus]

Heres an idea, Lucca bumps into Chancellor (fake), which makes him suspicious for one reason or another.  Marle is tossed out of the timeline because in the original timeline Crono and Lucca did nothing, and Yakra after seeing the arrival of all these strange people heads back to his base, to hurry up and end Leene.  Since Crono and Lucca weren't originally there to stop Yakra, Yakra succeeds in defeating Leene, screwing over the timeline.  But Crono and Lucca decide to go and save Leene, and manage to defeat Yakra.
We come back and see Marle reappear.

[Sentenal]

1. If Marle changes history when she goes back in time, how do Crono and Lucca still travel to 600 A.D. from their home version of 1000 A.D.?

For this answer, I'm going on the idea that the Entity removed Marle from Time, rather than Marle ceising to exist due to a Grandfather Paradox deal.

Before Crono went back to 600ad, its a tough question to answer.  But there is another observation that I would like to make about this.  Marle is gated, and in a matter of minutes, according to Crono, Crono follows.  Yet there seems to have been a much larger timeframe between Marle arriving in 600ad, and Crono.  Marle must have been in 600ad a day or so before Crono, for it to be enough time for Marle to be found by the Guardian military, and for the search for Queen Leene, which must have been extensive, to be called off.  I'm thinking that maybe the Entity has enough power over gates to influence just where in history they come out at, to some degree.  In this case, the Entity would have influenced the gate enough to make Crono and Marle to come out of the same gate in a larger span of time, in comparision to the amount of time they both entered the gate.

Now this factors into my answer.  Maybe the Entity can control the "time" a person spends inside a gate.  Maybe the time Marle spent inside the Gate was just long enough for Crono to enter the gate.  This would make it so that no change in Crono's past would have occured until after he entered the gate, and then gained TTI.

As for Lucca, this makes for some problems as well.  If we take the above answer for Crono, that doesn't help Lucca, who would exist in a world where Marle never existed, and the new Crono and Lucca wouldn't come back (note: The old Crono would have already gone back).

But here is an idea:  Lucca comments that she remmbers hearing that a Hero or something ended up saving the Queen.  Well, Lucca's presence wasn't vital to saving Leene.  Technically, only Frog's is, probably.  Crono goes back in time, and meets up with Marle.  Time then progresses on, but without Lucca from coming back.  I believe that Marle would have been removed in this Lucca-less timeline as well.  Perhaps Crono would have tryed to save Leene, or Frog would have done it himself.  But regardless, Leene is eventually saved, allowing for time to progress to a point where Crono is already in the past, and allows for the opportunity for Lucca to come back in time as well.

Does that make any sense?  I'll try to rephrase it if its too confusing.

[Hadriel]

My explanation is that, contrary to Lucca's explanation, something else happened to make Marle disappear.  Leene likely would have been saved one way or the other; it's possible that another timeline was, in fact, instantaneously created, with a set of circumstances that allows Crono to remember, such as Marle never getting back to the present and being recorded somehow in a forgotten chapter of history.  Stranger things have happened in the history we know, like the Aztec incident involving Cortes and the prophecy of Quetzalcoatl.  When Marle shows up and heads back in time, Lucca could infer that this is the solution to one of history's unsolved problems, and chase her; she's known as something of a mad scientist.  The actual disappearance would have to be something tied to Leene, though not anything as direct as lineage.

It's also possible that Marle went through a Serge-type experience, where something massive hinged on her fate, and her very existence was in flux.  Anything that massive would most probably be connected to Lavos.

The pendant is a non-issue compared to that; Crono and Marle both used it to travel back in time; Lucca's delay could easily be explained by going home and fetching the Gate Key, which would allow her to travel in time.  Research could also account for the time delay.

[Theicedragon]

1. If Marle changes history when she goes back in time, how do Crono and Lucca still travel to 600 A.D. from their home version of 1000 A.D.?

For this answer, I'm going on the idea that the Entity removed Marle from Time, rather than Marle ceising to exist due to a Grandfather Paradox deal.

Before Crono went back to 600ad, its a tough question to answer.  But there is another observation that I would like to make about this.  Marle is gated, and in a matter of minutes, according to Crono, Crono follows.  Yet there seems to have been a much larger timeframe between Marle arriving in 600ad, and Crono.  Marle must have been in 600ad a day or so before Crono, for it to be enough time for Marle to be found by the Guardian military, and for the search for Queen Leene, which must have been extensive, to be called off.  I'm thinking that maybe the Entity has enough power over gates to influence just where in history they come out at, to some degree.  In this case, the Entity would have influenced the gate enough to make Crono and Marle to come out of the same gate in a larger span of time, in comparision to the amount of time they both entered the gate.

Now this factors into my answer.  Maybe the Entity can control the "time" a person spends inside a gate.  Maybe the time Marle spent inside the Gate was just long enough for Crono to enter the gate.  This would make it so that no change in Crono's past would have occured until after he entered the gate, and then gained TTI.

As for Lucca, this makes for some problems as well.  If we take the above answer for Crono, that doesn't help Lucca, who would exist in a world where Marle never existed, and the new Crono and Lucca wouldn't come back (note: The old Crono would have already gone back).

But here is an idea:  Lucca comments that she remmbers hearing that a Hero or something ended up saving the Queen.  Well, Lucca's presence wasn't vital to saving Leene.  Technically, only Frog's is, probably.  Crono goes back in time, and meets up with Marle.  Time then progresses on, but without Lucca from coming back.  I believe that Marle would have been removed in this Lucca-less timeline as well.  Perhaps Crono would have tryed to save Leene, or Frog would have done it himself.  But regardless, Leene is eventually saved, allowing for time to progress to a point where Crono is already in the past, and allows for the opportunity for Lucca to come back in time as well.

Does that make any sense?  I'll try to rephrase it if its too confusing.

I don't belive that she was gon a full day before crono came throught the gate.  He went in the gate right after marle.  I always belived the it took time for the past to catch up to marle, thats why she dissapeared in front of crono.  I posted this in another thread.

[ZeaLitY]

Sentenal, the only problem I see is that Lucca really remembers everything that happened at the fair. So as you said, it really doesn't help her.