Porre = Nazi Germany?

[Glensather Galanodel]

I just thought of a way that Porre could both rise quickly, and why they're so militaristic in Chrono Cross.

Forgive me if this has been addressed before.

If you look around Termina in CC, you notice that the Porre flag is at once everyone, as are its men. This is reminiscent of a martialed town, but if you look at the flags, then they kind of look like a swastika if you cut off two of the "legs". Kinda like Nazi's, yeah?

Anyway, a theory about Porre, which I came up while looking at this, suggests that they also rose to power quickly because a militaristic, idealistic man rose up and began to lead Porre on the fast track to militarism. The leader rallied the citizens and soldiers behind a common cause (possibly saying that any and all hardships suffered by them was because of Guardia and its evil might), and used that to build the citizens' loyalty to him. He then mobilized the country, sending people to both El Nido and Fiona's Forest for raw materials. Like the Nazis, he hid a rapidly growing army behind "gun clubs" (since Porreans were "above" swords), "science clubs," (labs hidden in the best spot: out in the open, developing new technology rapidly), and so forth.

It took Nazi Germany about 8 years, plus or minus a few, to grow as big as it did behind Hitler. By comparison, we could say that due to the accelerated rate of everything in the Chrono world, it would take about 4 years for Porre to become the power like it did. Following its amazing power growth, it then proceeded to take over Zenan, most likely starting with Guardia first. Using technology both researched and reverse-engineered or simply used from El Nido, they would quickly take over, using a uniformly advanced army/navy and possibly even Air Force.

So... thoughts?

[CyberSarkany]

Then guardia would be Poland? It's to much spekulation I think. The symbol on the nazi flag was simple the symbol for(not sure) temple or something. If Square/Enix designed Porre like Germany back then, there would be massmurdering, an ideology, and all that crap. And important would be, Guardia should have knows what Porre was going to do (like GB, France and all the others knew what Germany is doing). A country quickly gaining power does not mean it must have been Germany, it can be every dictatorship or even democracy.
I don't think so, but a nice idea.

[Ramsus]

I think you can draw many more parallels between Porre and either the British Empire of the 19th century or Imperial Japan in the early 20th century. Something else worth examining would be Napoleonic France.

[Darth Mongoose]

If you reverse a swastica, it becomes the kanji 'ban' (yes, like bankai in the anime Bleach) which, on tourist maps and stuff here in Japan, is used to show a temple. Even knowing this prior to coming, I did a double take the first time I saw a Japanese tourist map that appeared to be covered in Nazi logos!

I don't think Porre is meant to equal any real world thing, perhaps it's influenced by some, but it could well be influenced by the Japanese Imperial Army taking over China and Korea. I don't think even by drawing a paralell, you'll end up understandting the game better.

[GrayLensman]

Porre was a very nationalistic, militaristic and expansionistic state.  Porre may have been authoritarian or fascist, but there is little or no information on its domestic policies.  I think the comparison with Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Soviet Russia or Imperial Japan is apt.

I would say that Guardia was a declining colonial superpower, much like Great Britian.

[Glensather Galanodel]

You're taking it a bit too far.

Comparing something to Nazi Germany does not equal mass murders and concentration camps. The rapid rate of military growth, the sudden change in government, and the authoritarian way in which they appear to run things (granted, El Nido is a suppressed colony) points toward a Nazist regime.

I will concede the comparisons between much older empires could also be applied, but if you consider El Nido to be like Poland (rapid expansion and taking over into another nation), but consider that perhaps Guardia has more in common with America before/during World War I (basically turning its back on the actions of the Triple Alliance), then you could see why they could do what they did to El Nido.

[Daniel Krispin]

You're taking it a bit too far.

Comparing something to Nazi Germany does not equal mass murders and concentration camps. The rapid rate of military growth, the sudden change in government, and the authoritarian way in which they appear to run things (granted, El Nido is a suppressed colony) points toward a Nazist regime.

I will concede the comparisons between much older empires could also be applied, but if you consider El Nido to be like Poland (rapid expansion and taking over into another nation), but consider that perhaps Guardia has more in common with America before/during World War I (basically turning its back on the actions of the Triple Alliance), then you could see why they could do what they did to El Nido.

I'm siding with Ramsus here. I would rather tend to think Porre to be the colonial power. We actually don't know the mechanism by which Porre gained supremacy. Therefore, speculation is just that. But, quite honestly, I must say that it is extremely doubtful that it would have resembled pre-WWII Germany. I mean, the country was at a loss because of the Treaty of Versaille, and essentially went to war with the original intent (or at least partial intent), of retaking lands that had been theirs before WWI. Now, I don't ever remember Porre being part of Guardia. Nor is there any hint of a maniacle extremist leader. In fact, nothing points towards a National Socialist type government. It may be authoritarian, but there are many other authoritarian governments, even at the time of WWII (Franco? Mussolini? These were all Fascists as well.) Authoritarian hardly means Nazi. But nonetheless, Porre seems very colonial in their outlook. They conquer lands, but not in swift war, but rather for their long-term resources, and police with their troops. Neither is it much like the situation between Poland and Germany. I think that Poland was invaded because, quite honestly, much of west Poland had been East Prussia on a time: German territory. Now, I don't think El Nido was ever Porre terriotry. And I'm not sure what you mean by America: America was isolationist and hands-off until several events led to their entry into the war (especially the Zimmerman Telegram.)  

But I think it's so: it's colonial Britain, or France. That's the first impression I got, and it's still the impression I get of it. El Nido is more like India under Britain, than Poland under Germany.

[Burning Zeppelin]

For all we know the symbol (can anyone post it?) could of been a swatsika in the name of Hindu and Buddhist peace...with its legs cut off.

[Chrono'99]

The flag of Porre depicts a Gryphon (or whatever the spelling is). It hardly looks like a Swastika...

[Glensather Galanodel]

The little graphic on my poor TV makes it look like a really bad swastika, sorry.

And I don't think we could consider Porre colonial; correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am), but Porre barely colonized the El Nido Archipelago, if at all. That would give them an Imperialist Stance toward that region.

But against Guardia, they were perhaps Nationalist and Militaristic. I don't think they so much treated them the way Nazis would as, say, Soviet Russia, perhaps?

[ZeaLitY]

Here we go:



Porre didn't really colonize El Nido; the Viper Clan (most likely FROM Porre) merely drove out the Demi-humans and Dragonians from the main island, and established Termina and probably Arni (which probably existed prior to 920 A.D.). Viper Manor was then set up, and the indigenous people moved over to Guldove to complain about the extinction and the death of tradition and old culture.

By the way, if someone wants to take a crack at making a black and white outline of that creature in the picture above so that we can have a definitive reference, I would be grateful.

[Glensather Galanodel]

A-ha. Thanks, Zeality. (Yeah, I need the PSX version for these anime scenes.)

[Slimmy01]

More like the East India Company of britain rising to power and taking over the entire sub continent

[EgyLynx]

Hmmh... whose maked CC´s plot?

Well, inresting points to YOU all...

But in Now days German, N is BAD word... and NOT say that word...

[Redline57]

You're taking it a bit too far.

Comparing something to Nazi Germany does not equal mass murders and concentration camps. The rapid rate of military growth, the sudden change in government, and the authoritarian way in which they appear to run things (granted, El Nido is a suppressed colony) points toward a Nazist regime.

I will concede the comparisons between much older empires could also be applied, but if you consider El Nido to be like Poland (rapid expansion and taking over into another nation), but consider that perhaps Guardia has more in common with America before/during World War I (basically turning its back on the actions of the Triple Alliance), then you could see why they could do what they did to El Nido.

I think his comparison was to the ideals of Germany, not verbatim its actions. Remember historically that the initial goal of the Nazi party was not explicitly genocide, rather that was a path they chose. The initial "problem" was economic, blaming a religion for it was a scapegoat, the same thing is happening in America now, not the same results but the idea of using hate and fear as a scapegoat. So I do see the correlation, but this does happen historically over time, its not always as absolutly direct (where your probably thinking a blatant Nazi connection, more Casablanca or Indiana Jones)