Author Topic: English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?  (Read 1505 times)

Magus068

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English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?
« on: November 22, 2006, 09:50:01 am »
Being translated to english is a good thing but there are some things that are lost in the translation.  For instance, Relm in FF6 talks more profanely in the japanese version than its english counterpart or CT's Vinegar, Mayonnaise & Soy Sauce's name change when it is translated to english.  As a fan of many anime & games(especially Chrono Trigger & Chrono Cross) may I ask you one simple question. Is it worth the change?  For me it's not, anime & game is an art that needs to be appreciated & preserve its original essences.  The slightest change in dialogs, events or even the change of character's habit & looks will simply loses its original essence & its charm.  I won't blame the translators because they're just following technical & moral standard but I blame the people who makes those standard.

Chrono'99

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Re: English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2006, 01:35:02 pm »
You're saying that you want Japanese games to not be translated?

Radical_Dreamer

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Re: English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2006, 01:39:30 pm »
If you insist on reading everything you view in it's original language, you either insist on learning a plethora of languages, both modern and dead, or simply cutting yourself off from the literary and artistic heritage of the world. I'm willing to risk some slight errors in translation.

Glennleo

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Re: English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2006, 02:26:12 pm »
Off topic, sorry ><.

Magus068 , do you know if they'll ever bring Namco X Capcom to the states?

D r e a m

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Re: English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2006, 03:47:27 pm »
I understand, although it may seem it is standards that are to be followed when translating Anime / Games to other languages, it is also reasonable. But we do share one thing in common Magus068, & that's respect towards original forms. I guess all we can do is "learn a plethora of languages" to enjoy such originality. But we must also weigh both sides of the matter, although it may seem it isn't in it's orginal language or origin, it also teaches us to be open minded towards such things. Til than, thank you & farewell.

- D r e a m

Daniel Krispin

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Re: English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2006, 04:34:09 pm »
Having now the ability to translate ancient Greek, and currently, for class, tranlating parts of Aristophanes' Frogs, I can say there is no problem with translated works. Yes, a bit might be lost in translation, it's true, yet even learning a language doesn't necessarially help with that. I see people in my Latin class that are technically learning Latin, but have no sense for the language or culture, and hence not for the literature. Sure, they might be able to translate and read sentences, but their translations and pronunciation show a lack of feeling for the intent.

Really, let them be translated, and enjoy them for that. Sometimes, the translation can even stand on par, or come very near, to the original. Take the Iliad - then put Lattimore's translation beside it. Okay, so it doesn't literally say 'but gave their bodies to be the delicate feasting of dogs, and all birds.' It goes more like, heck what is it? Something like 'autous d' heloria...' etc. Can't quite recall the Greek. But the thing is, there is no word 'delicate' in there, nor is there the word 'body', nor yet, really, the general 'bird'. Delicate is a whimsy of his own, body is his way of rendering 'autous' (which is a 'them' in the accusative, but is very difficult to translate correctly in this context), and the word for 'bird' actually refers more to birds of prey - I personally put the word raptor there when I translated it. The thing is, guys, I'm in second year Greek. I've studied this stuff for more than 99.9% of people would ever care to, and it takes be about... probably about 20 minutes to translate a line currently. Try reading a book at that pace. The translations are there for a reason. I dare you to find someone who can sight-read Homer. I don't know if anyone can, these days. And this also doesn't change the fact that, even if you CAN read it, you're still translating into your native tongue and 'thought world' mentally. In fact, you might well be making more mistakes and missing more of a point than a good, altered, translation does.

You see, to want overmuch for that level of purity is actually not understanding literature as a whole. The problem is, you're too concerned with the minutia of each line, that you fail to see the big picture, and how the work impacts the literature and culture into which it has been translated. As someone who is engaged in the process of translation - translating revered works of antiquity, at that - I think that the puritist stance is mere fanboyism, and is in fact detrimental to the art. It would keep it in the hands of a select few, and would cause it to stagnate. In the same way that LOTR was adapted for the screen, so words are adapted to another language. But still I've seen people complaining about how the movie was treated! I do - or did - know more about the Tolkien mythos than most of them, but THEY are the ones complaining. I have always, and will always, find absolute purity in literary translation not only ridiculous, but an enemy to literature itself.

This isn't to say, however, that when one wishes to retranslate Chrono Trigger that this is a bad idea. Retranslations are alright. They can do things differently, or perhaps a new translator can do things to a greater degree of accuracy. My issue is with those who disdain the translations for inherent inaccuracy, which seems to me a manifestation of fanboyism. What's not understood is that, even if you understand that language, that's only half the battle - you have to get into the cultural mindset. And that is rather difficult. Good translations change things not for the sake of changing, but it has in fact been altered by the translator who DOES understand both cultures, so that idioms and the like may be understood. The purists look at it and go - hey, this doesn't mean the same thing at all! They said this, not this! But they have missed a major point. Just because they might understand the literal idom or intent in the source language, doesn't mean that everyone else will - to most others, it may well seem like gibberish. However, literature is something that transcends such boundaries, and good translators will to an extent understand this. If they are really good, they can keep the feel and mood and intent of the original, but adapt it so that the culture into which it is being translated can have the feeling for it. Or, rather, what it is is that the translator will understand what feelings the source would have invoked in the original language, and values choosing words that will invoke the same feeling in the tranlated culture over accuracy. Those who know both langauges - and who I think are more prone to be purists - often can't understand this, because to them the original is TOO clear. They treat literature as too cut and dry (try translating that idiom into German and see what they say; you can't be exact, you have to use an equivalent) working my literal accuracy rather than what the intent behind the words is. Like I said, I've been working with translation for a bit now, and even in the classics that I love dearly, I'm willing to allow some leeway. The only thing that irritates me is that when people insist on newer, worse, translations when there is a perfectly majestic one already in existance. Why the heck do we need these 'modern' translations of the Iliad, when Lattimore's is scarcely fifty years old? They sure aren't adding either accuracy or artistry to it.

Oh, by the way, the characters have lost their original charm? Oh, no, no, no! They have lost the thing that made them charming in Greek (or in this subject Japanese) - but in return they've gained the equivalent charm in the English 'thought world.'

The thing is, heck, in that case, pretty well none of you really know the Greek myths! Because, you know, there is a lot to the story and to the feel brought forward in the names and in the syntax. This much I've learned, that the myths we learned in earlier years and the studies in High School were rather misleading, and didn't properly convey the feel of it at all! But is that to say, then, that we should isolate ourselves from those myths, stop studying it in High School, just because the translation is, basically, bad? Absolutely not. If I were to ask you what is the character trait of Agamemnon, of those of you who know the character, how many would say that he's a power hungry and self-serving politican? How many know the older character of Homer, and Aeschylus, the noble and caring king - proud, yes, but only as befits an aristocrat of his age. However, there is allowances, and yes, the alteration is worth it.

So I'm a staunch advocate of translation, even alteration, to fit the needs of a foreign audience. Just today I argued for the validity of the movie Troy as a movie translation of the Trojan war, dismissing the alterations as being in the service of art and literature. The same is said for this. Because you know what: if Troy had been told as it 'should' have been, no one would have gone to see it, save for the Classicists. So go ahead, enjoy your originals - just like I enjoy my originals - but be mindful of the purpose and virtue of translations, even ones that alter.

Lord J Esq

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Re: English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2006, 04:43:55 pm »
One of the reasons that anime and RPGs appeal to me so much is that most of the best up to this point have all come out of Japan--a nation that I find very interesting. That curiosity provides the orchestra; all the rest is a dance. By contrasting the two nations, I have learned a great deal about both--and have better understood human nature in general.

When it comes to translating the one into the other, I agree that much is lost. But, self-evidently, much is not lost. Many of the cultural differences are apparent; there is much that has been communicated successfully. And so rather than blame society for not facilitating a smoother translation, when it comes to absorbing translated works I would hold to the three-pronged technique of close reading, critical analysis, and self-enrichment. "Self-enrichment" refers to expanding one's horizons in order to better grasp the work under consideration; it can mean, in an extreme case, the learning of an entire language like Radical Dreamer suggested. Less extremely, it could mean doing some background reading relevant to the central work.

In any case, I just wanted to add that to the pot.

Magus068

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Re: English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2006, 08:30:07 am »
Off topic, sorry ><.

Magus068 , do you know if they'll ever bring Namco X Capcom to the states?

Namco X Capcom probably will never reach the states due to the fact that translating a game is a big business risk just like Super Robot Wars.  Although it's japanese I still enjoy that game.

You're saying that you want Japanese games to not be translated?

I didn't say games are not to be translated, what I meant to say is that to retain its original idea in the process of translation. Thats's what I meant about "preserve its original essence."
« Last Edit: November 23, 2006, 10:27:27 am by Magus068 »

V_Translanka

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Re: English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2006, 05:15:42 pm »
Direct translations are fine, but adaptations (which is really more what you're talking about) are kind of lame and only for the lazy or uncaring.

Also, I remember that she speaks in the third person...but I don't think Relm was more profane in the Japanese version...Edgar was more of a pervert (even a bit chimo), but I don't recall more profanity from Relm...

Magus068

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Re: English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2006, 11:01:52 pm »
It is said in wikipedia that she speaks more profanely in the original japanese version.

ZeaLitY

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Re: English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2006, 01:07:22 am »
It is said in wikipedia that she speaks more profanely in the original japanese version.


Yes, it's true. It made Edgar consider for a split second...

nightmare975

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Re: English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2006, 01:24:36 am »
The Thasma scene is classic. :lol:

V_Translanka

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Re: English translated games & anime: Is it worth the change?
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2006, 10:33:52 pm »
It is said in wikipedia that she speaks more profanely in the original japanese version.


Yes, it's true. It made Edgar consider for a split second...

Yeah, but that scene doesn't make Relm profane...it just makes Edgar look more like a chimo (also, the girls in the Figaro Castle bedroom also say he likes girls "of all ages"...more or less)...>_> I mean, I know it's been a while since I played the RPGOne version, but I'd remember if Relm was that much more kick ass...I think she was better than the Woosley'd version we in NA originally got, but you can't fix what's already broken...by breaking it more...