Activation of the very first gate

[ZealKnight]

Seems very obvious the pendant was required for the telepod to "malfunction".

Oh no doubt, no one is debating that. What we are debating is whether or not the pendant or more specifically Dreamstone is required to open a Gate. I would say that the evidence is not in favor of that conclusion at all.

That's what I've been arguing. The Gate can open from multiple things, Magic, Dream Stone, and Lavos have all been used. I think we could say the Time Egg but let's not due to it's complexity. I don't think Dream Stone is necessary to open the Gate either, because they would have just used that to open the gate at Mystic Mts, unless it had to be magic infused. Maybe whatever piece of the Telepod that was messed up was used n the Gate Key, maybe some sort of warp field generator was used, anyway I think we solved it without trying to treat it like a real Physics thing, because there is no way we could find any of that out.

[chrono eric]

I don't think Dream Stone is necessary to open the Gate either, because they would have just used that to open the gate at Mystic Mts,

Ah that is a very good point Zealknight, I didn't think of that at all. Yes, you'd think that if Dreamstone was all that was necessary than Lucca would definitely have mentioned something. The Gate Key is clearly far more important, and it is a mechanical and (presumably) electrical device in nature.

[stenir]

My initial thought after reading this far was that most of the gates involve Dreamstone being nearby (red rocks of 65 mil BC, the Zeal Kingdom in 12k BC, and the pendant triggering the malfunction), but after those the thought runs out of steam. Perhaps it's like a "when you know what to look for, you can see it" kind of thing. The gates work on a electrical discharge, which would suffice if you overloaded the telepod via the pendant. Thus, with the right concentration of electricity, you can activate a gate.

This also answers a similar question of why we don't notice gates unless they are there already. We don't notice the 1000<->600 gate until it activates, but all the rest we can see. Wouldn't it make sense that once they knew what a gate looks like closed, they could easily see them from then on? (I think we just see a zoomed in version, with the actual closed gate probably 1/10th of the size, and once again, it's just a gameplay mechanic).

[FouCapitan]

Unless Lucca had access to some amount of Dreamstone when she made the Gate Key. She certainly seemed to know her way around a Dreamstone when she and Melchior fixed the Masamune.

True but I believe she was following one of Melchior's textbooks when she assisted him.  For someone as brilliant as Lucca a task as precise as processing Dreamstone would be easily executable when presented with instructions.

She certainly didn't seem to know a thing about Dreamstone when Melchior said he required some to fix the Masamune.

[ZealKnight]

My initial thought after reading this far was that most of the gates involve Dreamstone being nearby (red rocks of 65 mil BC, the Zeal Kingdom in 12k BC, and the pendant triggering the malfunction), but after those the thought runs out of steam. Perhaps it's like a "when you know what to look for, you can see it" kind of thing. The gates work on a electrical discharge, which would suffice if you overloaded the telepod via the pendant. Thus, with the right concentration of electricity, you can activate a gate.

This also answers a similar question of why we don't notice gates unless they are there already. We don't notice the 1000<->600 gate until it activates, but all the rest we can see. Wouldn't it make sense that once they knew what a gate looks like closed, they could easily see them from then on? (I think we just see a zoomed in version, with the actual closed gate probably 1/10th of the size, and once again, it's just a gameplay mechanic).

That was kinda my original point that the dream stone helped to create(or more precisely made permanent) the Gate. Dream Stone is required for the original travel but once the distortion becomes a Gate you just need to warp and the field will cross with the Gate and cause time travel.

[Zephira]

Dream Stone is required for the original travel but once the distortion becomes a Gate you just need to warp and the field will cross with the Gate and cause time travel.

If Dream Stone is required for original travel, How did Lavos send Janus and the Gurus through time? Did it use the Mammon Machine?
And what about the rest of the gates? It's possible that having the Pendant and Gate key near eachother affected them, but those gates were already stable when you found them.

[stenir]

Lavos was summoned by Queen Zeal through the Mammon Machine, which if I remember correctly is made up of Dreamstone. It's likely he used the Mammon Machine to do that.

My guess about why the other gates are stabilized is once again dependent on the pendant. Say the pendant stabilized the first gate. Perhaps Lucca determined how it did it (or once that gate was stabilized and they were in the past, she could study the interaction), and then built that functionality into the gate key. From then on, any stabilized gate it would open, and any unstable gates would be stabilized and then opened.

[ZealKnight]

Dream Stone is required for the original travel but once the distortion becomes a Gate you just need to warp and the field will cross with the Gate and cause time travel.

If Dream Stone is required for original travel, How did Lavos send Janus and the Gurus through time? Did it use the Mammon Machine?
And what about the rest of the gates? It's possible that having the Pendant and Gate key near eachother affected them, but those gates were already stable when you found them.

I meant the first gate. And dream stone only worked in my opinion because it properties to conduct magic and other thing of that sort.

And Stenir basically said what I said but much more pretty and clear.

[xcalibur]

As far as malfunctions go, do we say that CT is a malfunctioning product because someone figured out you can fight the Black Omen in 1000 A.D....then 600 AD...then 12000 BC? No, it's an oversight on the part of the programmers.

You honestly think that's a mistake in programming?  The only question that brings up is not whether the Omen should be around still in prior times, but the paradox created by destroying something in an earlier time period that you fought in a later time period.  Hence another reason TTI was brought up in the first place.  Rather than approach through the problem on a logical time travelling sense, the programmers simply made it a dungeon you can explore multiple times, prompting us to come up with reasoning for it that is full of contradictions.

i just had to mention that being able to fight in the black omen 3 different times is no mistake, and no paradox. you can destroy it in 1000 ad, then battle it again in 600ad and then in 12000 bc.. because each time, it hadnt been destroyed yet. the fact that it was destroyed in the future doesnt stop it from existing in the past.
if you destroyed the black omen at 12000 bc, then it would disappear in later times.

anyway

the gate key situation is a complex situation. after all, chrono didnt drop the pendant like marle did, right?

we can assume that the dreamstone pendants special properties helped open the gate, along with electric/lightning power from the telepod. theres also the question of the telepod itself and how it worked.. if lucca could create a teleportation device, perhaps she was also smart enough to study the pendant/telepod reaction and craft a device with a similar amplifying effect.

then theres the question of why we couldnt see the gate before it opened, but we can see all other gates before we use them once. perhaps the initial gate opening triggered an entity-assisted chain reaction that made other gates available?

and what if the pendant still had a bit of charge from the mammon machine in 1000 ad, and thats what caused the initial reaction? what if the gate became a stable "closed" gate after chrono went through it, making luccas job easier?

many questions...