Ayla

[Thought]

Except Ayla and her tribe are clearly Neolithic people. In short, they were Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Chronopolis' claims regarding human evolution are directly contradictory to the evidence in Chrono Trigger. Having a language at all means that they weren't very far removed from modern humans.

Though, to be fair, the time period (65,000,000 B.C.) put things right around the time that Primates were becoming separate and wide spread as an order. In short, even Australopithecus shouldn't have been around, much less Homo S. Sapiens.

But given that Chronopolis had barely any records on Lavos, it isn't beyond belief that they were simply mistaken about the timeframe of human evolution. With scant fossil evidence, perhaps their estimations were based on tracing genetic deviation (the molecular clock). A simple faulty estimation on the degree to which the Frozen Flame caused mutation in human DNA (as such mutations can be estimated and tracked backwards, offering an estimation as to when species might have diverged) could skew the age of such deviations.

Regardless, relating Evolution in the Chrono series to real world Evolution is a headache.

Curiosity: the Frozen Flame was supposed to influence human evolution... but was it ever established when it got to Earth (and, indeed, if it was even from Earth's Lavos)?

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

i just always assumed the Frozen Flame was a piece of Lavos that broke up upon the initial impact.  like lavos, the frozen flame had a certain life source that existed beyond normal monster perameters.

[maggiekarp]

Kato couldn't kill Ayla, so he made her retarded.


(I'm sorry, I was just a lot happier when the Frozen Flame was Dreamstone, not Lavos chunks)


edit: ...though the two are aren't mutually exclusive. Say the Chronopolis time estimate was wrong, Lavos could have sent magical chunks of itself ahead much earlier and sparked human dreams. Then it provided plenty of dreamstone whenever necessary (see: Zeal and its destruction).

[Thought]

If the Frozen Flame is the same as Dreamstone, it had to get to Earth before Lavos (as Crono and Co obtain it before Lavos falls).

If Dreamstone is the Frozen Flame, then that might explain why the Masamune became corrupted (indicating that Lavos was the one that corrupted it, in a similar manner that the Frozen Flame corrupted Serge's father).

But isn't the only source of Dreamstone and the Frozen Flame being the same item the Utlimania book? That is a text already dubious in its assertions.

Chrono Cross has established a dichotomy between humans and dragonians, Chrono Trigger established the dichotomy between Lavos and the Entity, so why not another dichotomy between the Frozen Flame and Dreamstone? Indeed, if both effected human evolution then that might help explain Chronopolis' curious stance on Ayla's people; not taking into consideration Dreamstone's effects on the molecular clock would throw off their calculations. Indeed, Queen Zeal's overnight change with the Mammon Machine seems very similar to the corruption of Serge's father, which might indicate that the in Zeal's time the Frozen Flame was just recently put into physical contact with humans.

[maggiekarp]

Well, that's the thing, I don't think dreamstone or the frozen flame are inherently evil or directly influenced by Lavos. They give power to the dreams of whoever possesses them, so that's why you have a good Masamune in the hands of Melchior or Frog, and an evil Masamune in the hands of baddies. While Wazuki and Zeal were supposedly good people before their exposures, clearly they desired power or something else for them to be corrupted in the first place. See also: half the cast of CC that touched the Masamune before Serge.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

i've never heard about the dreamstone and frozen flame being one and the same...  interesting theory...  but i dunno about it...

i get confused by the +/-65 million year gap between 65 million BC and 12000 BC.  there seems to be no course of human evolution beyond the ability to grasp magic.

[V_Translanka]

The RD Frozen Flame is the only one I could see being the same as Dreamstone. The CC FF is obviously part of Lavos and doesn't look like Dreamstone at all.

Though I think that there are obvious similarities because of the Magic absorption abilities that both Lavos & Dreamstone seem to share...or at least are a part of some kind of dichotomy together.

[Thought]

i've never heard about the dreamstone and frozen flame being one and the same...  interesting theory...  but i dunno about it...

i get confused by the +/-65 million year gap between 65 million BC and 12000 BC.  there seems to be no course of human evolution beyond the ability to grasp magic.

Aye, I never heard of that theory either, until I browsed through the articles and such here. Not a fan of it myself, really.

And you know, the more I think about it, the more puzzling evolution is in the series. The lack of it over 65 million years in Chrono Trigger indicates one thing while Chrono Cross' statement that Lavos influenced human evolution indicates another. Even Leah's presence in Chrono Cross makes little sense if Chronopolis is correct.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

thought, thats exactly my errr... well, thought.

the course of evolution in the chrono universe is contradictory and puzzling.  i had always been curious about this and have developed my own theories in my early chrono days...

such as:
1.) all humans entering a cryogenic sleep for millions of years (perhaps due to the entity, or through technological advance)
2.) at some point some humans travel back in time and in turn create the human race (of course, this creates a paradox)

these theories seem sort of... mute... and lack validity, however.  i was 12 or 13 when i came up with them to begin with.

any thoughts on the matter, anyone?  perhaps we should start a new thread?
 

[Thought]

Done and Done, the thread is over in the History, Locations and Artifact forum (and the forum title seems to be missing a comma).