AIM discussion of Techs/Grids

[Leebot]

AIM discussion of Techs and Grids (as yet unedited):

GrayLensman01: Techs act the same as elements.
Avatar of Leebot: Do they? Elements can't be "learned" naturally, while Techs can
Ultrainer2000: Yeah...
Ultrainer2000: If a character doesn't have a grid, can they use techs?
Ultrainer2000: Which brings up a whole 'nother subject about the plot basis of grids, but that's another thing.
Avatar of Leebot: And what exactly "Stars" are
Avatar of Leebot: Special elements?
silverforge2670: Techs act the same as Elements when they're used, not in how they're gained.
Avatar of Leebot: A representation of experience that we, the players, see?
Ultrainer2000: Stars seem to be accumulations of pure energy.
Ultrainer2000: brb
Avatar of Leebot: But if the latter is true, why are they used for summons?
GrayLensman01: Some techs are obtained and allocated.
GrayLensman01: Some Techs are obtained as story events and can be allocated.
silverforge2670: true, but on the whole, they're not the same
xZeaLitYx: Stars to me were MP.
xZeaLitYx: Or levels. Of course in "reality," Crono couldn't think to himself "I need 5235 exp."
Avatar of Leebot: Then why do they apply to the whole party at once, in both experience and as fuel for summons?
GrayLensman01: Experience and star levels are purely aspects of gameplay.
Avatar of Leebot: and grids, too?
GrayLensman01: Elements really exist, and Kid mentions her elemental grid.
MetallicA6586: Exactly as I was about to mention.
Avatar of Leebot: yeah, so why would the characters see their grids mysteriously expand when they defeat a powerful enemy?
silverforge2670 has left the room.
MetallicA6586: But I doubt they really have any knowledge about stat growth.
MetallicA6586: It's not like Kid would go "Hey, I just got +10 hp!"
Avatar of Leebot: but grids are more physical to them, which implies grid expansion is more physical, which implies stars might be physical
Avatar of Leebot: unless they just think grids grow naturally over time
Ultrainer2000: I once had this idea that grids were crystallized forms of magic brought out by the Records of Fate (or other things, in the event that character never touched a record, like a natural occurance for Draggy, or alien technology for S
Ultrainer2000: *for Starky) and became a biological entity in symbiosis with their holder.
GrayLensman01: That's true, Leebot.
Ultrainer2000: Of course, I'm random guy #42 that makes theories without facts to back them up. >_>
Avatar of Leebot: then again, do monsters use grids? If you stay in battle and defend forever, they'll never run out
Avatar of Leebot: But that is probably best explained as a gameplay element
Ultrainer2000: Monsters, as in CT, seem to possess innate powers. Which brings up the question of how monsters are charged with the power of green and yellow.
MetallicA6586 has left the room.
Ultrainer2000: It's probably best explained by these changes happening when Dinopolis appeared.
GrayLensman01: Gameplay, definitely.  Enemies don't attack consistently either.
Avatar of Leebot: Now, assuming monsters use grids, they'd have to be pretty rudimentary if physical constructs, or more ephemereal
Ultrainer2000: Of course, we know that many monsters contain limited forms of intelligence, and in some cases, moderate or high.
Ultrainer2000: So rudimentary wouldn't always true
Ultrainer2000: *be true
Avatar of Leebot: but grids have to be usable by even the dumbest monsters, such as the jellyfish-like ones
Ultrainer2000: Hm...
Ultrainer2000: Like the point I brought up with Draggy, grids could also be a natural occurance.
Ultrainer2000: He does seem to be a Dragonian.
Ultrainer2000: Like the point I brought up with Draggy, grids could also be a natural occurance.
Avatar of Leebot: which would imply they're not physical
Ultrainer2000: Not physical, maybe..,. but still biological.
Ultrainer2000: Zeality says he can't post, so I'll be talking for him.
GrayLensman01: Tech skill may be unique for individual people but they are physical elements. When a Tech is "learned" it involves receiving a unique element.
Ultrainer2000: ZeaLitY: Chronopolis could have probably imparted operative intelligence to lifeforms in El Nido for Element Grid usage.
xZeaLitYx: Maybe. Grids certainly are weird.
xZeaLitYx: An outsider can use them, yet animals have them innately.
xZeaLitYx: Chronopolis could probably impart some kind of operative intelligence to the organisms of El Nido, and still have it be a non-biological device
Ultrainer2000: Well, there you go.
xZeaLitYx: Well, there they all went
GrayLensman01: Techs may also involve combining a physical move with a generic element to produce a special colour based effect.
Avatar of Leebot: Still if a grid were physical, we would see it at least on the transparent enemies
Ultrainer2000: Perhaps grids are created due to a... for lack of better term, ethereal virus that stemmed from when Dinopolis appeared? It may have originally have been exclusively a dragonian technology.
Ultrainer2000: I'm not ruling out the fact that they could be ethereal.
Ultrainer2000: Of course, I never have proof, so ignore me. =P
Avatar of Leebot: Or maybe "grid" is more of a mental construct, the way element-users visualize their storage of elements
Ultrainer2000: Then...
Ultrainer2000: How could Serge remove Kid's elements/
Ultrainer2000: ?
GrayLensman01: That's true.  People can have elements "equiped" or simply in their inventory.  Putting a element in your grid is like "memorizing" an element for immediate use.
Ultrainer2000: Kid wouldn't have asked Serge if it were completely mental.
Avatar of Leebot: Maybe the elements are converted from a physical form to an ethereal form.
Avatar of Leebot: Serge (or Mel) might be able to convert them back again if Kid weren't conscious to resist

Also, a few new arguments on magic/elements:

xZeaLitYx: Spekkio did say that he has observed combat from the End of Time
Ultrainer2000: Yay for spin the bottle - death edition.
xZeaLitYx: If he's truly the God of War, he should be experienced with everything, though Elements didn't exist at the time of Trigger
silverforge2670: yeah
Avatar of Leebot: "combat," not "nature"
silverforge2670: but can he see multiple time streams?
silverforge2670: every time stream should lead there
Avatar of Leebot: If yellow and green weren't used in combat, he wouldn't have known about them
silverforge2670: so that seems to be a possibility
GrayLensman01: The Dragonian Dimension would have existed during the time of Trigger.

And one random theory that seems like a cop-out:

Avatar of Leebot: Unless... what if CC doesn't really exist in the same timeline as CT, but a similar timeline with slightly different laws of physics?

[V_Translanka]

Huh? Are we under the assumption that CC is in the CT timeline? I've always said it wasn't as it starts at the Fall...

But either way...I don't see Grids as really physical things. It's just like the magic system in Final Fantasy. You have a limited number of space in which you can allocate different Magics. But, unlike FF1, in CC, you can un-equip various magics (Elements)...Except Techs, which, once equipped, or learned, cannot be moved or un-equipped. Also like FF1, you have a limited number of uses of these magics (Elements) in battle. In FF1, it was based on MP because the more you used the less you could use, in CC it's simply a factor of what you have equipped as each Element is a one-time-use (unless you have Recharge disposables or special Techs or the Chrono Cross).

We know that "Serge" can un-equip other party members. But really? We don't know how he goes about doing it. For all we know he asks them to take them off (or out?). The one case we absolutely know of someone taking someone else's Elements directly from their grid is the Mel to Kid scene. In that case Kid is unconscious. Another thing to take note of is that Kid says that her Elements are gone even if you un-equipped her of all of them beforehand.

About Stars. I see them as a similar system as Skies of Arcadia. Through battle, the party systematically gains the power to use special moves. Perhaps stars are simply a kind of combined chi power. With the defeat of high-level monsters comes the availability to store more chi. It is odd though when thinking about CC summoning compared to that of CT summoning (both the Frog Squash tech and the Dino Tail tech are forms of summoning as well as the summoning of each of the Golems). Although I suppose there are a few CC techs that could be considered a kind of summoning as well...Steenas techs come to mind as do Riddels...and Karsh and Zoah's DragonRider techs...and depending on how you think it got there, the big robot of Starky's...and, of course, there's Lynx's FeralCats...and is Orlha's SisterHoods also like that? I guess there's like a kind of sub-summoning in the games...