Author Topic: CT Remake? Good news...  (Read 4236 times)

V_Translanka

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CT Remake? Good news...
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2005, 06:46:15 am »
Quote from: Legend of the Past
If he's a baby, you can actaully do that, you know


That makes it no less fucked up.

Legend of the Past

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« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2005, 06:47:33 am »
Quote from: V_Translanka
Quote from: Legend of the Past
If he's a baby, you can actaully do that, you know


That makes it no less fucked up.


Yeah. Even more if you tell the baby that he's adopted but that's his real name.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #47 on: July 18, 2005, 12:02:25 pm »
Quote from: Legend of the Past
Sarah is Saa-Rah (Like the egyptian Rah).

The sound "R" doesn't exist in Japanese so I doubt it's like Rah. Sarah in Japanese is supposed to be pronounced Sha-la (whether it's written "Sarah" or "Sara" or "Salah"...).

Legend of the Past

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« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2005, 12:33:22 pm »
Quote from: Daniel Krispin
Quote from: Jake-A-Roonie
...Nor does "Sara" sound like the princess of an ancient kingdom.  Although the name did originate from God changing Sarai's name to Sarah all the way back in Genesis, so that's almost as ancient as it gets. :lol:  Still, "Schala" sounds even more ancient, not to mention regal.


But it likely wasn't pronounced 'Sair-ah' back then, nor is it so in Hebrew, I wager? Legend, what do you say?


He asked me a question about Hebrew, I answered.

Chrono'99

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« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2005, 12:46:15 pm »
Oh sorry, I thought you were talking about the Japanese name because you mention Jaky just after it... Well, my previous post never happened anyway^^'

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2005, 01:36:50 pm »
Quote from: V_Translanka
Yeah...But the game is a FANTASY world...It's not the middle ages in our time, obviously...There's magic, monsters, and other bizzare crap going on. I think the original names fit it just fine. I don't see how you can argue the setting as not fitting with their names...The setting is a fantastic landscape where anybody can have any name...or hair color! 8) It just seems like you shouldn't have to change the name that the creator gave them...I mean, it's like adopting a kid and saying, nope, sorry kiddo, don't like the name your parents gave you, I'm changing it. Tough shit.


But that is the very point: in a fantasy world, especially, one must maintain internal consistancy and feel. A name like Jacky - admittedly Maou less so, but even it to some degree - breaks this. You see, as designed, the game is starkly western middle-ages. The castle is western in design style. The weaponry and armour, save for Crono, are likewise. Zeal, for its part, has more of a middle-eastern feel. To thrown in names of another tradition is, to someone as me that considers names carefully, extremely incongruous and grating. Jacky alone would totally break the feel and mood of Zeal. Even Doreen, which was kept, comes perilously close to doing this. They sound far too colloquial, and one cannot take seriously the feel of it being ancient.

The thing with fantasy is, there are stern rules one must obey. It may not seem like it, and it may appear as though anything goes in fantasy, but that is not the case. Too often things are destroyed by simple going too strange, just because it can. Think of what is considered the penultimate, or at least the originator of, modern fantasy, Lord of the Rings. It is inherently based in our world, with our rules. It follows some strict lines, and does not stray greatly from the real. This follows in names especially. The people from the regions have purposed names. In Rohan they have names in the tongue of the Rohirrim (pardon me, Tolkien claims to actually have translated the names from original Rohirrim into Old English for the sake of the story, but has kept the meanings the same. Regardless, the feel is kept), names such as Eowen, Theoden, Thengel, and Eorl. Amongst the Elves, and those of Gondor, names in lower Sindarin Elven, or higher Quenya, are common, such as Elrond, Glorfindel, Denethor, Faramir, and have their own sound. Names from the East are more eastern: such as Khamul, shadow of the East, the second of the Nine ringwraiths. Amongst Hobbits, they have their own unique sound, though this is rendered in English for feeling - again a purposed thing, for who would wish Sam to be called by his real name Banazir*? That is Hobbitish, after all, and you notice more in line with a name like Merry's, Meriadoc. Then there is the Black Speech, with lines such as Ash Nazg Krimpatul. Or Adunaic, which is a little harsher, too, of which I think Tar-Kalion stems (though it might be Ar-Pharazon; one is Elvish, the other Adunaic, but Adunaic comes from Elvish.) Now, the point in all of this is to illustrate that it is paramount that the names, especially in a fantasy setting, continue the feel of the region. Jacky, or Jeal for Zeal, does not do this. It may in Japanese, but it sounds, at least to my western ears, immature. That is not to say that there were not silly-sounding ancient names (Sulilupiamus, anyone?) but for the most part, they sounded grander (Marduk, Ekbatana, Uruk, Nippur, Lagash, Ishtar, Tiamat, and so forth.) Words and names in stories are meant to evoke a feel in the audience. If the traditions change, as they do from East to West, so do the connections with words and sounds. Thus it is paramount to change it to maintain the desired feel, which is the important factor.

*This, and the names from Rohan, serve to exemplify my opinion the best. Tolkien 'changed' these names - or, spoke of them as having been changed - for the sake of the audience. We could have easily done with Banazir, after all, or likely with any of the actual Rohirrim names. But he used changed version - changed when it was not really neccessary, if one thinks about it. It is one of the things that must be considered in fantasy writing as in no other. Moreover, if the names were not changed... would you like them to call Sauron 'Thu' all the time? Or yet older, Tivaldo Lord of Cats? Those are not just other versions of the name (like Thauron is). He changed these to fit the feel of his langage and tales, and the like. A similar thing might be said with Chrono Trigger. Some names may have a lot of meaning to an Eastern audience (say, Maou), but mean nothing to a Western one. Thus changing it, to retain its impact, is in order - Magus is the best example of this, actually, as the names mean the same thing. In many of the other examples, say Jeal to Zeal, Jacky to Janus, the translator actually made the game deeper and more thoughtful in his changes, and that is near always for the better. Personally, it would actually turn me off a game to have characters named Maou and Kaeru, but that might well be just me.

V_Translanka

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« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2005, 07:02:30 pm »
Yeah...well...Uh...Doreen's name was just Dream, yar? And also, I've been told that Jaky also means something like bad or dark energy? I dunno...I think the connotations w/the meanings of their original names are nice.

I just don't think you CAN go too strange when you're talking fantasy, especially in CT's case, since it's just as much sci-fi as it is fantasy (although i suppose sci-fi is just a branch of fantasy). I think it's that combination of using more Japanese names in a western feeling world that makes it feel more fantastical. I mean, you talk about absurd/funny sounding names as if both versions don't have them (Ozzie, Flea & Slash for example).

And I'm still questioning on that whole "Jeal" thing...

I guess I'm just more purist than colloquealist...or w/e.

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #52 on: July 18, 2005, 07:43:32 pm »
Quote from: V_Translanka
I guess I'm just more purist than colloquealist...or w/e.


Well, we always need a few of those around for each thing, else it wouldn't be the Compendium, would it? Personally, I'm the purist when it comes to Greek names, so I technically cannot complain all that much.

But as far as fantasy goes, yes, you can indeed go too strange. I think that's a great flaw in what is often done: because anything can technically be done, some think it should be done. But there are boundaries in fantasy and, if anything, one must be more careful with fantasy than with anything else because they are so much hardser to see. Fantasy, or at least the beginnings of it, are based inherently either upon fairy-tales or myths and legends, both of which are themselves based upon reality - rather, in the case of myths, an explanation of the world, and how the gods connect to nature, and in the latter a seed of history sprung to a great tale throughout the varying years. But inherently, they follow certain modes of telling, and certain structure. And they are always based in our world. This is not to say that the borders cannot be stretched, but care must be taken in not doing too much, else it ceases to be 'real', and thus loses its impact with us. Remember, I'm hoping to be a fantasy-writer some day, so I've given this topic much thought. Fantasy is not, in origin, the fantastical: it is myths and legends. What makes Chrono Trigger so good is that, while it is slightly science fiction, it follows more the mould of legend and fairy-tale. Or, at least, the English version does, for English speakers, as I'm sure the Japanese did for the Japanese. Mix these, and I think a problem arises. For example, while Jacky might have a meaning in Japanese, to my ears, Jacky sounds like a girl's name. Not at all suiting for the prince of the mightiest land of legend ever, and not at all menacing or meaningful. Yet Janus figures even into our every-day lives in the name January. In western history, he was a two-faced god, the doors to whose temple were flung open when the path of war was taken. A god of beginnings and endings. This fits well with the character Janus is fated to become, and is I should think a good equivalent in the English.

teh Schala

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« Reply #53 on: July 18, 2005, 10:52:35 pm »
*wants to hurt the guys who hijacked this thread, but isn't sure who did it first* :P  LOL

Daniel Krispin

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« Reply #54 on: July 18, 2005, 11:00:48 pm »
Quote from: Jake-A-Roonie
*wants to hurt the guys who hijacked this thread, but isn't sure who did it first* :P  LOL


Oh, we don't have to look. It would be a pretty safe bet to say it was me.

V_Translanka

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« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2005, 04:08:03 am »
Ok, I just got to thinking, Danny-boy (omg! rofl)

...heh heh...anyways...where was I? Oh yes, thinking...I was thinking, what's your take on the Grandleon/Grandlion to Masamune then? Obviously in this case they took a western sounding name and changed it into an eastern one...for some reason...that doesn't really make much sense...I mean, the Masamune of legend was a katana, yes? Well, just wondering your take.