Questions about Home Acacia Dragoons

[Albert3105]

When I first finished playing Chrono Cross, I was thinking so many questions about the Home Acacia Dragoons (both about the surviving ones and the rest that are killed in the Dead Sea). This is my very first post, guys so I may have soaked misconceptions.

1. How did HW Solt and Peppor end up on the Zelbess?
2. Were the massacred Dragoons at the gate to Leene's Square the only dragoons to enter the Dead Sea?
3. How did the Masamune in front of the Dead Sea teleport to Forbidden Isle?
4. How did HW Dario get washed up on Forbidden Isle?
5. How did Marcy become a Deva in the first place? Sure, I can look at her Chrono Compendium entry. But she was already a dragoon at, umm, six years old? I missed a lot of the story because I never used any Acacians other than Karsh and Riddel when I played (Even with Riddel I only used her for the Dario sidequest and the DBT Time Devourer, and absolutely nowhere else).

More to come...

[Acacia Sgt]

1. Well, without memories and no idea on what to do they most likely simply tried to get a job and stuff to get by, and it happened to be on the Zelbess.

2. Most likely some died along the way, considering stuff like the Highwayman.

3. Most likely due to Dario, since he was the last to wield it and still had a hold on him.

4. Dario was thrown off a cliff, most likely into water that lead to the ocean and then by currents and such he ended up on land again, which happened to be that island.

Number 5 is the only one I can't really answer since in a way it puzzles me too. But well, it's a video game, so the fact Marcy is a Deva before even being 10 is... well, not much of an issue in the grand scheme of things. On the other hand, if I remember right she isn't fully human, so perhaps that got something to do with it. Who knows.

[Fortranm]

For number 3, I always believe the Masamune in front of the Dead Sea is actually from Another World and gets destroyed by the team. The Masamune native to Home World is probably always with Dario.
Evidence:
1. AW Masamune is clearly taken by Lynx because that's what AW Karsh remembers. It's not really possible to prove what exactly happened in HM at Isle of the Damned since HM Karsh is dead.
2. Following the clue from number 1, we can conclude that the Masamune blocking the road to Dead Sea is probably the one from AW placed by Lynx/Dark Serge to slow down the team.
3. We don't clearly know about the status of HW Lynx or if there is only one Lynx who can go across dimensions, but it's sure that Lynx is able to go to HW at that point in the plot. The only time the team meets Lynx/Dark Serge in HW is during the battle before Serge regains his form. This might hint that Lynx can't cross dimensions without Serge's body, but at least it proves that Lynx/Dark Serge has the chance to visit HW and place the Masamune from AW in front of Dead Sea.

[Acacia Sgt]

Hmm, I never thought about that regarding the Masamune.

Admitedly, the only thing against it is Radius's comment about the sword returning to Dario from the Dead Sea entrance, but that's not really a definite fact, just a guess of his. I think.

Regarding the Isle of the Damned, I doubt the events there happened much differently in HW from AW. Dario was definitely possessed in both, as such it probably means the fight with Karsh also happened in both. For HW Dario to wash ashore in another island he has to have ended up on the ocean at some point, which the AW flashback shows a good way it could've happened for HW as well. As such I don't think that much was different.

Considering where Lynx was at the time the split happened, I doubt he wasn't split up like almost everything else. On the other hand, it might be possible he could hop between the worlds even whe he didn't had Serge's body. FATE after all was able to put AW Miguel in the Dead Sea, and then later cause the end of the latter as well. Considering you can only enter the area surrounding Chronopolis through portals in HW where the Dead Sea once was, it's likely quite plausible.

[Fortranm]

Yes, what happens to Karsh and Dario should be very similar in both worlds. I was trying to say that the details like the status of Masamune can be different. Since there is no direct eye witness, it's possible that Masamaune falls with Dario instead of being taken by Lynx.

I don't really get what you say about Lynx's location though. He should be around Opposa Beach or Arni Village around the time Kid saves Serge. I don't think that would make him immune to the split. Lynx is clearly unable to enter Chronopolis until he becomes Dark Serge. FATE probably destroys Dead Sea through the three wormholes, and this doesn't have much to do with Lynx's ability to cross dimensions.
The reason dragons can cross dimensions is probably because they are essentially projections from DBT. Dragon God inside Time Devourer should be able to choose which dimension to put the projection in. This should also be the reason why each dragon is only in one of the dimension if each dragon can only be projected to one place at a time. Their nature as projections makes them immune to the split and gives them the ability to cross dimension. This apparently doesn't apply to FATE and Lynx.

What happens to Miguel is a good question though. I think Miguel is partially corrupted by FATE by the time the team meets him, but shouldn't TTI make HW Miguel survive the split?

[Acacia Sgt]

Yeah, that was my point: That considering the circumstances, Lynx should have a HW counterpart that's MIA by the time Cross happens.

What I meant about Chronopolis is that it can access to its counterpart area, since it could affect the Dead Sea even though the rest of HW El Nido is out of its grasp. And with there already being precedent about FATE being able to have someone cross the dimensions (AW Miguel), so doing it with someone else wouldn't be unreasonable.

About Miguel, considering what happened to the Chronopolis area when the Dead Sea formed, it's generally accepted his HW counterpart perished there and then. Considering the nature of the Dead Sea it's likely he and HW Chronopolis became part of it, and thus, once the Dead Sea is destroyed, they are destroyed alonside it due to being part of it.

[Fortranm]

Miguel can do it doesn't mean Lynx can do it. Like I said, FATE/Lynx's dimensional shouldn't be as strong as that of Dragon God. If Lynx can go between dimensions as he wishes, why doesn't he just go to Dead Sea and warp into AW by himself instead of using the legit entrance? His way of crossing dimensions should be the same as other people, ether at Opassa Beach or Dead Sea.
Miguel probably just goes through one of the three wormholes from Sea of Eden to Dead Sea. It's exiting Sea of Eden, not even entering it. This one-way trip should be simple. As a demi-human, Lynx can't use the wormholes there for sure.
According to Belthasar, Serge can cross dimension at Opassa Beach because he is missing in the other dimension(or maybe because he is the reason of the split at the same time). As we both agree on the fact that there is probably a HW Lynx, the wormhole at Opassa Beach shouldn't work for Lynx either. (I guess I already made it overly complex. Serge can't visit AW with Lynx's body at first, and this is the best evidence.)
That being said, the Lynx the team actually knows can't visit HW until the body swap. HW Lynx should be the one who tricks the Dragoons to death at Dead Sea, and back to the topic about Masamune(finally), AW Lynx/Dark Serge visits HW and places Masamune in front of Dead Sea before the team gets there.

[Kodokami]

I'm sure I've read in one of the interviews we have around here with Masato Kato that Home World Lynx and Harle were killed/frozen along with the Acacia Dragoons. I'm not 100% sure, though. I'll look for it in the morning.

[Acacia Sgt]

Harle? I don't think there was two versions of Harle, considering she's one of the dragons.

Miguel can do it doesn't mean Lynx can do it. Like I said, FATE/Lynx's dimensional shouldn't be as strong as that of Dragon God. If Lynx can go between dimensions as he wishes, why doesn't he just go to Dead Sea and warp into AW by himself instead of using the legit entrance? His way of crossing dimensions should be the same as other people, ether at Opassa Beach or Dead Sea. Miguel probably just goes through one of the three wormholes from Sea of Eden to Dead Sea. It's exiting Sea of Eden, not even entering it. This one-way trip should be simple. As a demi-human, Lynx can't use the wormholes there for sure.

According to Belthasar, Serge can cross dimension at Opassa Beach because he is missing in the other dimension(or maybe because he is the reason of the split at the same time). As we both agree on the fact that there is probably a HW Lynx, the wormhole at Opassa Beach shouldn't work for Lynx either. (I guess I already made it overly complex. Serge can't visit AW with Lynx's body at first, and this is the best evidence.) That being said, the Lynx the team actually knows can't visit HW until the body swap. HW Lynx should be the one who tricks the Dragoons to death at Dead Sea, and back to the topic about Masamune(finally), AW Lynx/Dark Serge visits HW and places Masamune in front of Dead Sea before the team gets there.

I never stated Miguel and Lynx could travel under their own violition. FATE was the one who put Miguel in the Dead Sea. Since the most likely method was through those three wormholes, then it stands to reason FATE can do that to anyone, even Lynx. As for AW never crossing through there... well, until 1017 AD there was no need due to HW Lynx. And after that, the path was blocked by the Sage of Marbule. AW Lynx would be limited to just the Dead Sea. And Lynx being a demi-human has nothing to do with using or not the wormholes. Otherwise all the demi-humans in Serge's party wouldn't be able to either, but they can.

Yeah, the rest I agree on. Except on Lynx placing the Masamune after the body swap, at least from the El Nido side. That entryway is blocked after all. For Lynx to place the sword there he should've done it either during the doomed expedition (if it's the HW Masamune), or used the Sea of Eden wormholes and placed it from within (if it's the AW Masamune).

[Fortranm]

I'm now a little confused. What's the reason Serge can't enter Sea of Eden with Lynx's body then? I thought it's because Chronopolis doesn't want demi-humans to get into Sea of Eden. Team members should be able to get away with it since they are next to Serge at the time of entrance, just like how it works at Opassa Beach.
Isn't Lynx unable to enter Chronopolis until body swap? I remember Harle says Lynx is NOW in Chronopolis. The statement makes it sounds like it's his first time to ever been there. Pearly Gate is a dead end. Harle says it's sealed by dragons, but this is clearly a lie though. It's probably sealed by FATE after the terraforming. It should be down during the storm so Wazuki and Miguel can go through, but it's questionable if FATE is able to actively control the seal since it's cut off from the power source(yet it still has the power to destroy Dead Sea, I wonder how much power does it have when it's connected to Frozen Flame. Yeah, terraforming).
Sage of Marbule has an item that controls the tide that can open the path to Dead Sea, but this doesn't mean he is the person who seals it. I doubt if he even has that power. Pearly Gate is sealed at first just like how the entrance of Dead Sea is, but it's automatically opened after Dragoons join the party. It might be an oversight in design, but this might show that there are more than one Fiddler Crabs in existence. Lynx should be able to get another Fiddler Crab since he even has the way to get Dragon Tear. It's easier to get into Dead Sea than to get into Sea of Eden, probably even for Lynx.
I would be surprised if HW Lynx actually died in Dead Sea though, but this is actually very likely if you think about the conversation between HW Norris and Serge with Lynx's body. I always thought Lynx made the plan to kill Dragoons, but maybe even FATE didn't know what happened to Sea of Eden in HW at first.

[Acacia Sgt]

Well, the wormholes aren't just open passages anyone can use at their leisure. FATE can, or more like, can open up for others to use them. As for how Serge did, well, it's thanks to the dragons. When you approach the distortions after the HW Fort Dragonia events, a message appears about Serge being now worthy and to go challenge fate. So it's not that Serge had Lynx's body (which, when you consider things, he never really gets his body back, just his DNA to reshape it back to his own's image), it was that FATE would not open them up for obvious reasons, while the dragons decided he needed his DNA back first before they open them up (which makes sense, when you consider the room to the Frozen Flame is behind a DNA-sensitive lock, that even FATE can't open up).

No, Lynx can enter Chronopolis itself just fine. It's only the room with the Frozen Flame that is out of bounds, again, because of the DNA lock. Which is the reason behind the whole body swap incident.

Well, the entryway had to be sealed off between 1017 AD and 1020 AD. If the Fiddler Crab can open it up there is no reason it can't be the thing to seal it off as well, considering the whole tide thing, which means anyone with the object can do it. Pearly Gate opening up could be an oversight. Since at that point is when they decide to head into the Sea of Eden, and now all of a sudden the place is open to trigger the "get the six dragon relics" part of the plot. But well, how to know the exact intent? About being more than one... well, logic dictates there has to be at least two, one per world. So yeah.

No, I would think FATE already knew, specially by 1017 AD.

[Fortranm]

How does AW Lynx enter Sea of Eden at the first place? I now agree that FATE decides who can go through the wormholes, but there is no way to enter the wormholes if he can't even enter Sea of Eden. Pearly Gate is a dead end. The only possibility is that FATE is actively controlling the seal at Pearly Gate that it is opened temporarily when Lynx wanna enter Sea of Eden. This is quite possible though.

It seems we have different understandings on how Fiddler Crabs work. I think the out side of Dead Sea/Sea of Eden is always like that. When some one uses a Fiddler Crab, the sea becomes calm and the gate opens up for a while(I know the gate becomes permanently open in the game, but I think that's just game mechanism). Based on this understanding, the Dragoons should have a Fiddler Crab as well, in both worlds probably.
I guess this is just a difference in personal understandings since the game is rather vague on this part.

[Acacia Sgt]

At this point, it's likely that if it's not through the Pearly Gate, then the answer is simply that Lynx had a way to enter the Sea of Eden through means that are just not told nor available to us when playing the game. According to the articles in this very site, both the ones of Lynx and Chronopolis state that shortly after the split FATE called back Wazuki to Chronopolis to complete the Lynx transformation and plan for 1020 AD, which was calculated that was when Serge would cross the dimensions. So it's clear he could acces the Sea of Eden even back in 1010 AD. Also, there is Lynx's attack on Lucca's Orphanage. He kidnapped her to force her to disengage the Prometheus Circuit. If he couldn't enter Chronopolis, he wouldn't have bothered. So we can't deny he had access and that he did entered the place before the game. We just have to accept that perhaps the info was not deemed as something we had to learn.

Also, curiously, the Chronology section also has that the Masamune was placed in Death's Door between 1017 and 1020, not during the course of the game.

Well, to be fair, when we see the Fiddler Crab in action, it had little to do with the tide. It was more like destroying the rocks blocking the path. I still don't know for sure if the Fiddler Crab is one-of-a-kind or that there could exist more than one per world. It is a jewel after all, and we don't know what exactly that jewel is.

[Fortranm]

Now it all makes sense

I know it's a cave opening up, and that's what I mean by "that's just game mechanism." Showing a cave being unsealed is the easiest way to tell the player they can now enter that place under the map system of Chrono Cross so I go with what the sage says for what actually happens.