Author Topic: Dalton's role in the time of Chrono Cross  (Read 3848 times)

Prince Janus

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Dalton's role in the time of Chrono Cross
« on: October 16, 2015, 09:34:20 am »
Is there any information which indirectly mentions Dalton in Chrono Cross? My assumption is that he remains in charge of *at least* Porre and outranks general viper, lynx, etc. However, I don't recall anyone in Cross mentioning such a supreme authority.

 Basically, any information that isn't referring to him by name: I strongly strongly doubt that to exist anyways, if his declaration of ambitions in Chrono Trigger DS is to be such a big reveal. Just, anything like "the king", or "Viper only takes orders from one man", etc. Any clues as to Dalton's existence in 1020 AD. 

 My assumption is that if he does still reign high, he needs a place to do it. Thus, Guardia Castle may still be intact on the Zenan Mainland, and that is where he sits.
 

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Dalton's role in the time of Chrono Cross
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2015, 10:28:32 am »
The game does mention a High Command. But I wouldn't know if its Porre's supreme authority or just the army's.

I wouldn't expect to be info that even indirectly hints at Dalton, since CC was made long before CT DS. I don't remember if they had already chosen to involve Dalton there. Though Zealian influence was already present, I'd admit, considering the Black Wind unit's name.

Dialga_Palkia

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Re: Dalton's role in the time of Chrono Cross
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2015, 11:31:31 pm »
Executed for treason and death by flames from the sky....oh,wrong game?

Prince Janus

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Re: Dalton's role in the time of Chrono Cross
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2015, 07:07:24 pm »
The game does mention a High Command. But I wouldn't know if its Porre's supreme authority or just the army's.

I wouldn't expect to be info that even indirectly hints at Dalton, since CC was made long before CT DS. I don't remember if they had already chosen to involve Dalton there. Though Zealian influence was already present, I'd admit, considering the Black Wind unit's name.

No, I'm looking for indirect mentions, for this exact reason. Is "high command" all there is?

Acacia Sgt

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Re: Dalton's role in the time of Chrono Cross
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2015, 07:16:05 pm »
No, I'm looking for indirect mentions, for this exact reason. Is "high command" all there is?

Far as I know, yes.

Prince Janus

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Re: Dalton's role in the time of Chrono Cross
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2015, 10:10:09 am »
so he may or may not exist... though I can't think of a reason for the latter

Kodokami

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Re: Dalton's role in the time of Chrono Cross
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2015, 04:14:21 am »
Yeah, there is no mention of Dalton in Chrono Cross, directly or indirectly. A Porrean "high command" is brought up a few times, but that could be anything.

Dalton having a hand in Porre's rise appears to be an afterthought. Outside of his appearance in Chrono Trigger DS, Dalton simply doesn't exist after his apparent death.

Prince Janus

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Re: Dalton's role in the time of Chrono Cross
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2015, 08:09:16 pm »
once again, Dalton wasn't put into this until CTDS so I'm not looking for mentions by name, Kodokami. A couple of people keep missing that part of the post and I'm wondering if maybe it's bringing back the wrong kind of information. 

EDIT: This thread was actually intended for Enhasa halls, I'm not sure why I put it here...
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 08:54:07 am by Captain B »

Kodokami

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Re: Dalton's role in the time of Chrono Cross
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2015, 10:32:51 pm »
The only things I could even remotely tie to a higher authority in Porre are the mentions of a "high command" by soldiers in El Nido and a "central regime" which would later establish Chronopolis.

Vera in Radical Dreamers has the title of "Porre's Magic Chancellor". She also possesses what appears to be curative magic in an era where humans with native magic should not exist. It's not too unreasonable to believe that Dalton could teach magic to others, just as Magil (presumably) taught Serge a few spells. This theory is a little more far-fetched, however.

That's all I've got. Wish there was more to go off of.

Prince Janus

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Re: Dalton's role in the time of Chrono Cross
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2015, 08:59:55 am »
 I've heard some theorize that Vera is in fact Queen Zeal (and others site Lara for that. tbh both could be true. What Zeal loses post-black omen, Dalton restores), though It's a surprise to me to learn that the military Dalton formed would eventually be the ones to generate Chronopolis. Dammit bad guys why do you have to go and do cool things??

Lennis

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Re: Dalton's role in the time of Chrono Cross
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2015, 07:07:15 am »
As far as I know, there is no direct or indirect mention of Dalton's role in the present-era other than what was established in CTDS.  What I think is that Masato Kato had a good idea what Dalton's role in the world was supposed to be at the time Kato made Chrono Cross, but was unable to implement it in the game due to money and time constraints.

This is purely conjecture, but this is what I believe happened:  Dalton takes control of Poore sometime before 1005 and then launches an attack on Guardia Castle.  Dalton finds the Masamune sealed in the castle archives (left behind by Glenn in the middle-ages) and uses it to kill Queen Nadia.  This action curses the Masamune.  Crono, having no idea what has happened, flees with his infant daughter, Leena, during the confusion.  By the time that Crono learns of Marle's death, Dalton has already been killed by an enraged Lucca, who uses her powerful magic to obliterate Guardia Castle with Dalton still inside.  Lucca's attack causes severe damage to Truce, leaving many children orphaned, and she decides to take the children in as penance for her rash act of vengeance.  With Poore in control of Guardia, Crono goes into exile and changes his name, raising Leena in the remote fishing village of Arni in the El-Nido archipelago.

Obviously, the part about Leena isn't canon, but technically neither is anything else.  This is what I think the original idea was, and Kato was forced to reject it, only hinting at it years later in CTDS while not contradicting anything that was portrayed in Chrono Cross.

Pa

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Re: Dalton's role in the time of Chrono Cross
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2015, 09:30:05 am »
This is purely conjecture, but this is what I believe happened:  Dalton takes control of Poore sometime before 1005 and then launches an attack on Guardia Castle.  Dalton finds the Masamune sealed in the castle archives (left behind by Glenn in the middle-ages) and uses it to kill Queen Nadia.  This action curses the Masamune.  Crono, having no idea what has happened, flees with his infant daughter, Leena, during the confusion.  By the time that Crono learns of Marle's death, Dalton has already been killed by an enraged Lucca, who uses her powerful magic to obliterate Guardia Castle with Dalton still inside.  Lucca's attack causes severe damage to Truce, leaving many children orphaned, and she decides to take the children in as penance for her rash act of vengeance.  With Poore in control of Guardia, Crono goes into exile and changes his name, raising Leena in the remote fishing village of Arni in the El-Nido archipelago.
I also believe in all that, but I doubt the Lucca part. The CT enhanced versions cutscene shows everything burning but also shows a lot of people from Truce on the ground slained by Dalton and the Masamune. Later on Lucca probably just try to help the surviving orphans because she could.
I don't think Guardia was totally destroyed and its monarchy system fell. Probably the castle, yes. But some dialogue lines in CC makes it appear that Guardia came back on its feet, but not as big as it was.
Interesting fact: in the CT 1.999 A.D. in-game overworld you can see small domes where the Guardia Castle would be. And a very big dome in Truce. Still... 1000 years is a time long enough for many things to happen.
I believe the whole team survived the Dalton/Porre attack. This is supported by the drawings of the CT team made by the orphans that shows up in that CC scene (there's one for everyone except Magus), and the letter Lucca wrote to Kid makes it seems like everyone of her friends are still alive and well as of that moment.
I think Dalton just opened another one of those Gates of his and it sucked Crono and Marle in. And when they came back to 1.005 A.D. they killed or capture him, saved everyone that was still alive and started rebuilding.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 09:33:29 am by Pa »