Does the Entity exist?

[V_Translanka]

I think that's because it's more openly just called/refered to as the Planet in CC...no subtleness at all.

There's also the japanese names of the last event "The Final Battle"...which was...oh, does anyone have the actual name? Basically, it was a throwback to the 400 Year Reunion, it was called "Our Planet's Dream" or something or other, which was picked up again in CC's last even title "Our Planet's Dream Isn't Over Yet" or w/e it was called...

[Legend of the Past]

No, it was "The end of our Planet's Dream", which is later picked up by the final title for CC: "For all the Dreamers! Our Planet's dream is not over yet..."

[kazmaka]

Oh, one more thing I forgot.  There's nothing about The Entity in Chrono Cross.  Now, once again, this doesn't prove "she" doesn't exist.  However, I would think that something this big would be explained, or at least expanded upon.

that is pretty much the main reason i dont believe there is an entity, trigger barely talks about it, and cross doesnt at all, surely something as important as who/why made crono go on this quest would be very important, and they would elaborate further than they do, or they just want you to think about it for yourself and decide for yourself whether there is an entity and who it is, or they didnt want religous factions having a go at them for making a god character in their game, kinda unlikely but who knows.

[Silvercry]

Does the Entity exists?  Yes, of course she does.  The Entity is the will of the planet, pure and simple.

Did she do all the things that we've credit to her (such as Marles's disappearance in 600 AD)?  Probably not.  I've always subscribed to the "Temporal Inertia" theory, which has been brought up (and 'debunked') in one of the articles on the main site (though I forget which one now...).  Temporal Inertia is the only theory that explains both how Lucca and Crono can remember Marle after she vanishes without a paradox and how Doan could have attended the Moonlight Parade when his entire timeline should have been banished to the Tesseract.  I'd go as far to say the Entity can influence Temporal Inertia as she sees fit, but that's about it.

But I'm getting of the subject.  Yes, the Entity exists.  Without her, Chrono Cross would not have happened... or have we forgotten that it was the planet (aka- The Entity) that brought Dinopolis back in time and from another dimension to deal with Chronopolis? What more proof do you need?

(And on a side not, the argument that just because she was first/only mentioned in a side quest, and therefore cannot have bearing on the overall Chrono series is a fallacy.  By that logic, Lunar: Eternal Blue should never have happened since Lucia of the Blue Star was only given one sentence of acknowledgment in the Silver Star Story.)

[kazmaka]

(And on a side not, the argument that just because she was first/only mentioned in a side quest, and therefore cannot have bearing on the overall Chrono series is a fallacy.  By that logic, Lunar: Eternal Blue should never have happened since Lucia of the Blue Star was only given one sentence of acknowledgment in the Silver Star Story.)

on a note to the rest of your post, fair points, on a note to the quoted article, although im not sure about what you are taking into reference here, i say u may have missed the point, if you havent im gonna make you re-read it in a diferent way anyway so hah.

because there is no necessity for you to hear about the entity in a fully completed game, main storywise, ignoring side quests just do everything that the main story entails you to do. if they do not make you hear of the entity, the entity itself is a mere, side story, so its existence is not (dam whats the word) definete (dam i think of it but cant even spell it). hmm that will do, i give up.

[DeweyisOverrated]

Whao, wait, the Entity brought back Dinpolis through time?  Lavos brought back Chronopolis, and from what I understood, Dinopolis as well (being paralleled to each other and all).  Where does it say the Entity brought back Dinopolis?

[Sentenal]

It said the Planet brought back Dinopolis to counter-act Chronopolis being brought back.

About this whole side quest thing:  What is the main purpose of CT?  To defeat Lavos.  Thats the main quest.  Everything AFTER you get to the End of Time for the first time IS a side quest.  You can fight Lavos right there with the bucket.  Its possible to level up just fighting monsters and stuff in time periods you have already been to.  But we consider EVERYTHING that happens after that part of the story.

For CT's continunity, we consider EVERYTHING, side quests and all, part of the main story.  Otherwise, we have no grounds to say what is and what isn't canon with CT's story.

[Silvercry]

on a note to the rest of your post, fair points, on a note to the quoted article, although im not sure about what you are taking into reference here, i say u may have missed the point, if you havent im gonna make you re-read it in a diferent way anyway so hah.

I was merely trying to find a common ground - that the entity exists, but may not be responsible for everything that we at the Compendium give her credit for.

because there is no necessity for you to hear about the entity in a fully completed game, main storywise, ignoring side quests just do everything that the main story entails you to do. if they do not make you hear of the entity, the entity itself is a mere, side story, so its existence is not (dam whats the word) definete (dam i think of it but cant even spell it). hmm that will do, i give up.

If the entity does not exists, kindly explain the following:

- The disappearance of Marle in 600 AD (recalling that the Grandfather Paradox does not exits in the Chrono universe)

- The very existence of Gates and the time/places in which they exists through the course of CT.

- How Dinopolis got to 7600 BC.

The fact that it is first mentioned in a side quest is irrelevant.  Yes you could finish the game with out ever hearing of the entity, but you could also finish it without brining Crono back - which is arguably a side quest itself.  Rather than thinking of Fireside Chat (as I refer to the 400-year reunion) as some kind of appendix to the story, I chose to see it as a reward of extra knowledge for the gamer who bothers to take the time to complete the side quest.  Skipping it doesn't take away from the game, but seeing it definitely adds something to it.

Whao, wait, the Entity brought back Dinpolis through time?  Lavos brought back Chronopolis, and from what I understood, Dinopolis as well (being paralleled to each other and all).  Where does it say the Entity brought back Dinopolis?

During the same part of the game where the orgin of Chronoplis is explaned.  It may be Miguel who actulay comes out and says it, I cannot recall right now.  It has been a few years since I played the game form start to finish, and I was hopped up on pain killers at thetime (having recently undergone surgery.)

[Chrono'99]

Apparently, what is called 'the entity' in the American CT wasn't even called by name in the Japanese version, it was always refered as 'someone' or words like that. On the other hand, the planet ('Mother Earth') was mentioned many times by Azala and in some stuff like the names of the chapters (note the obvious similarities to CC).

All of this was changed in CT's American version probably because of censorship (CT too anismist?): the planet isn't mentioned and the name 'entity' was created. Note that it's 'the entity', not even 'the Entity'.

As for the 'relevance' of the 400 Years Reunion, I think it can't be judged as a mere optional side-quests. Else more than half of FF6 and 90% of Valkyrie Profile would be side-quests, too...

Oh, one more thing I forgot.  There's nothing about The Entity in Chrono Cross.  Now, once again, this doesn't prove "she" doesn't exist.  However, I would think that something this big would be explained, or at least expanded upon.

Well, the introduction text in the CC manual is so clear on it that there probably isn't any need to expand upon it again and again in the actual game:

''The dream of our planet once had defeated the darkness and brought forth a brighter future...''

CT states that the dream of the entity is to defeat Lavos, and CC states that the dream of the planet has defeated Lavos, so, who's the entity?

[kazmaka]

It said the Planet brought back Dinopolis to counter-act Chronopolis being brought back.

was that not merely because of philosphical/physical laws you have mentioned before. the planet did not think o look chronopolis is being sent back in time lets send dinopolis as well, it was just an automatic thing that occured because it would defeat many laws for it not to.

About this whole side quest thing:  What is the main purpose of CT?  To defeat Lavos.  Thats the main quest.  Everything AFTER you get to the End of Time for the first time IS a side quest.  You can fight Lavos right there with the bucket.  Its possible to level up just fighting monsters and stuff in time periods you have already been to.  But we consider EVERYTHING that happens after that part of the story.

ive already said how it is a sidequest, after you resurect crono the next step in the story is to defeat lavos, after you get to the EoT for the first time you there is a reason why you dont go straight to lavos, for one gaspar tells you not to, and secondly the story tells you not to. if you do fight lavos before you resurect crono you are going against the story, if you fight him after resureting crono your merely avoiding sub storylines.

The disappearance of Marle in 600 AD (recalling that the Grandfather Paradox does not exits in the Chrono universe)

you already did that with the intertia theory.

The very existence of Gates and the time/places in which they exists through the course of CT.

for the existence of the gates ive always blamed it on lavos, as for where they take you to, i had a theory on that but ive forgot.

''The dream of our planet once had defeated the darkness and brought forth a brighter future...''

this has been bugging me for a while, what does it mean the dream of the planet?

[DeweyisOverrated]

First off, I wasn't really trying to argue that the fact that the text mainly takes place inside of a sidequest was THAT relevant.  I was mainly putting it out there as just a forerunner to the whole thing.

As for the planet's dream... its really hard to tell exactly what is meant by that.  Assuming its responsible for various events in the Chrono universe... is it an actual being?  What exactly is it trying to accomplish by setting certain things in motion?  What is its ultimate goal?

[Silvercry]

It said the Planet brought back Dinopolis to counter-act Chronopolis being brought back.

was that not merely because of philosphical/physical laws you have mentioned before. the planet did not think o look chronopolis is being sent back in time lets send dinopolis as well, it was just an automatic thing that occured because it would defeat many laws for it not to.

When the game actually comes out and tells me "The Planet did X" I'm inclined to beleive it.  I'm not sure what laws you are referring to, unless you mean the Conservation of Time Theorem, stating no more than three people can time travel at once.  And that has also been explained in another article on the main site.  I believe it was the one pertaining to the Dead Sea.

About this whole side quest thing:  What is the main purpose of CT?  To defeat Lavos.  Thats the main quest.  Everything AFTER you get to the End of Time for the first time IS a side quest.  You can fight Lavos right there with the bucket.  Its possible to level up just fighting monsters and stuff in time periods you have already been to.  But we consider EVERYTHING that happens after that part of the story.

ive already said how it is a sidequest, after you resurect crono the next step in the story is to defeat lavos, after you get to the EoT for the first time you there is a reason why you dont go straight to lavos, for one gaspar tells you not to, and secondly the story tells you not to. if you do fight lavos before you resurect crono you are going against the story, if you fight him after resureting crono your merely avoiding sub storylines.

Just because a person (in this case, the gamer) is not aware of something doesn't mean it does not exist.  Just because one may chose to miss the fire side chat does not invalidate what was discussed in that scene.  It just means the player is a crappy gamer who missed things.

The disappearance of Marle in 600 AD (recalling that the Grandfather Paradox does not exits in the Chrono universe)

you already did that with the intertia theory.

Except that I already said the Temporal Inertia theory has already been debunked, since by definition it still applies the Grandfather Paradox, albeit at a less-than-instant rate of effect.  The theory is flawed, so it cannot be used as a counter-point.  I subscribe to it because it can explain the presence of Doan at the Moonlit Parade, and I am trying to work out the flaws on my own, but so far, I have yet to succeed.  It just doesn't work.

[for the existence of the gates ive always blamed it on lavos, as for where they take you to, i had a theory on that but ive forgot.[

Right, because Lavos wants to die at the hands of three kids, a frog, a cavewomn, a robot, and a pissed off wizard.  That's why it created the Gates in just the exact times and places that would facilitate its own end.  Good point  


EDIT:

As for the planet's dream... its really hard to tell exactly what is meant by that.  Assuming its responsible for various events in the Chrono universe... is it an actual being?  What exactly is it trying to accomplish by setting certain things in motion?  What is its ultimate goal?

The same as all sentient beings: To Live. To Survive.

[DeweyisOverrated]

[for the existence of the gates ive always blamed it on lavos, as for where they take you to, i had a theory on that but ive forgot.[

Right, because Lavos wants to die at the hands of three kids, a frog, a cavewomn, a robot, and a pissed off wizard.  That's why it created the Gates in just the exact times and places that would facilitate its own end.  Good point  

It's possible he didn;t do it on purpose.  I mean, a guy who exists in his own dimension separate from time crashing into the Earth at God knows how much force is bound to create some sort of after-shock effects outside of their own strict control.

[Legend of the Past]

As a writer, the prospect of dreams goes into my writing.

"The dreams and hopes of a people long so forgotten, broken beneath the fist of their own wishes. The greatest sinners and the mightiest judges."

Their dreams and hopes speak of both their desires to live and survive and the individual desries of each and every one of them. The Planet itself is a living, breathing Lavos-hating thing. It's a life form in it's own right. Like every cell in the human body is considered a living organism, and the body as a whole can be considered an organism, so can the humans, the dwarves, the Mystics and all them Heckrans be considered as indivudal organisms, and the Planet is an individual organism. Therefore, it's reffering to both the wish of the Planet itself to live, and also the wishes of every each and one of the life-forms living there.  Remember Gasper says the whole world fights against Lavos: It can mean EVERYONE IN THE WORLD, and it can also mean THE WORLD ITSELF. Both are just as accurate.

[AuraTwilight]

I believe the Entity exists, but we do give her too much credit. I heard someone suggest that Leene's Bell was rung by the Entity. Bull. the Telepod? The Pendant. Marle's vanishing? HERE we go. Entity, cha cha cha. As for all the Time Gates? Yea, sure, Entity. Whatever gets your jive going. There's proof for and against the Entity, just like God. It's all a matter of faith, I guess.