Does the Entity exist?

[knuck]

Hm, I don't think you can really say if there is fate in the Chrono series. There isn't a lot of evidence for both arguments.
I just look at the Chronoverse, and *any* universe, in a deterministic point of view.

[...] the first Morning of Creation wrote
What the Last Dawn of Reckoning shall read.

~Edward FitzGerald

[Radical_Dreamer]

So, essentially, I propound the idea of an unknowable ether.

Einstein believed in the "ether" as well. He even accounted for it in his original equations. When it was later disproved, he stood up and said "This is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen."

[Daniel Krispin]

So, essentially, I propound the idea of an unknowable ether.

Einstein believed in the "ether" as well. He even accounted for it in his original equations. When it was later disproved, he stood up and said "This is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen."

Really? Tells you what I know. Oh, well.

[Burning Zeppelin]

Is what i've been trying to say. The universe is just that, ONE...verse

[Zaperking]

Aura, you're soo of your rocker.
If Fate exists, then anything that happens has already been determined, even time travel.
How can Crono not be the hero of time when they had that whole entity talk during that Robo side quest. They even said that someone wanted them to see it all. Because you're always going on about that scene in other posts, like how the entity does exist bla bla bla.

When you're thinking of Fate, you're thinking as if it's a lesser diety.

And I never said Serge's death wasn't cannon. I said it was pre determined, so that in 1020 Kid would have to go back in time to save him, which was pre determined too.

[Radical_Dreamer]

So, essentially, I propound the idea of an unknowable ether.

Einstein believed in the "ether" as well. He even accounted for it in his original equations. When it was later disproved, he stood up and said "This is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen."

Really? Tells you what I know. Oh, well.

Well, now you know one more thing. Never lose your desire to learn and explore.

[AuraTwilight]

If Fate exists, then anything that happens has already been determined, even time travel.
How can Crono not be the hero of time when they had that whole entity talk during that Robo side quest. They even said that someone wanted them to see it all. Because you're always going on about that scene in other posts, like how the entity does exist bla bla bla.

And yet you still give me no evidence supporting Fate's existence that I can even work with/ How can Crono BE the hero of time when Crono was just in the right place at the right time and decided to stop Lavos ALL ON HIS OWN? >_>

How said the Entity was Fate anyway? You're totally mixing up "Fate" and "Planning ahead."

and I meant his Game Over death, silly. You know, the one I QUOTED? Whatever.

[Zaperking]

Well, there's nothing to say that Fate doesn't exist. And I already told you, Miguel says that it exists, he had that big quote on how "We are all pawns in the game of life, we can never get off the playing board." etc. etc. and said how Fate braught Serge to this moment and will guide him etc.

And I think it's already been established that Crono and co. are the heros of time. Like someone said at the camp fire scene "Someone wanted us to see all this". We can't be sure that the whole Marle thing was an accident. Like Taban said something like how Crono would do it even if it wasn't Marle etc. So Fate would have known anyway, if Fate exists, which I think it does anyway.

That and Zurvan.

[Burning Zeppelin]

Maybe that is what Chrono Trigger is about, how one little incident can change the world. Marle.

[Chrono'99]

Wait! Are we arguing whether the Entity = Fate?

[Zaperking]

No... Aura is trying to prove that Fate doesn't exist.

Whilst I'm saying that it exists, along side the Planet as it's own entity.

[AuraTwilight]

You can't prove something doesn't exist, that's impossible in of itself. YOU are the one claiming that Fate exists and is the Entity, so YOU must be the one to provide proof that the general population of the board can understand and accept.

I already told you, Miguel says that it exists, he had that big quote on how "We are all pawns in the game of life, we can never get off the playing board." etc. etc. and said how Fate braught Serge to this moment and will guide him etc.

1) I'm sure Miguel is totally off his rocker by this point
2) Game of Life doesn't make me think about Fate. It makes me think about the eternal struggle of evolution.
3) How do we know he's not talking about FATE?
4) How do we know these aren't just Miguel's religious beliefs or something mixed in with what he knows?

And I think it's already been established that Crono and co. are the heros of time. Like someone said at the camp fire scene "Someone wanted us to see all this". We can't be sure that the whole Marle thing was an accident. Like Taban said something like how Crono would do it even if it wasn't Marle etc. So Fate would have known anyway, if Fate exists, which I think it does anyway.

But I'm not arguing over they're being the Heros of Time. That can't be denied. I'm arguing the claim of them being mystically chosen for the job. They aren't. They chose to do this all on their own with no outside influence (Not counting portals) and the way I see the Entity, I don't think it's actually able to guide anyone. It's still dreaming. And you're going in a circle now. You can't use Fate in an argument to prove Fate.

[Kazuki]

I still don't think when Miguel talks about Fate it's just the ramblings of a crazy man...I just don't get that image projected when he speaks. He's obviously a bit warped, considering he's talking about how beautiful the Dead Sea is, but not completely crazy. Also, when you defeat him, his last words are calm and rational, and the very last statement he makes is expressing his love to his daughter and his hopes that she will live in a happier future.

[Zaperking]

Aura, I'm saying that Fate IS ANOTHER ENTITY BESIDES THE PLANET, BUT THE PLANET IS SOME WEAKER SHITTY ENTITY!

Hello, Miguel is fully sane. He can remember the past. And he even tells Serge to strike him down so that Serge can go back to his time and Miguel can stop suffering.

Here's what Miguel says on Fate.

Miguel:
   '"Fate."'
   Our lives are governed
   by fate.
   Fate knows all
   and controls all.
   No one can run
   from fate...

Miguel:
   Even your presence here
   was predestined...
   long, long ago.

Miguel:
   Wouldn't you all like to
   become one with this world?

Miguel:
   To be a part of eternity?
   How about it, Serge?
   You need no longer
   struggle alone, nor fear
   an uncertain tomorrow.

   
Miguel:
   Well? What do you say?
   ~~~Refuse!!!
   ~~~Accept...

Member:
   Serge!?
   You can't be
   serious!?

Member:
   We can't just let
   ourselves die here!

Miguel:
   I see...
   I guess there's only
   one thing left to do then...
   I take it you're trying to
   restore the dimensional
   distortion?
   If you defeat me and liberate
   this place, the distortion
   will return to the way it was.

Miguel:
   I guess this is it...
   Just as there are times of
   peace, there are times of war...
   You don't have to hold back.
   Attack me with all your
   soul if you wish to live.
   Let fate take
   its course...!!!

After you beat him:

Miguel:
   Well done!
   That's the way, Serge!
   My, you have grown strong.
   Maybe...just maybe...you and
   your friends have the power
   to defeat FATE and build a
   new future for humanity.
Miguel:
   Perhaps, or perhaps not...
   Either way, it is all part of
   the grand game of the gods...
   and '"goddesses!"'
   People are dragged into playing
   this game...forced to put their
   own lives on the line...without
   even knowing the rules.
   Without even being allowed to
   complain, they try to do their
   best under the conditions
   placed upon them...
   The only alternative is to give
   up and leave the playing field
   in a forfeit...
Miguel:
   It looks like Fate has made
   its decision and has started
   to carry it out now...
   FATE doesn't want the Frozen
   Flame to awaken in this place
   at this time...
   It would choose to destroy the
   Flame along with the whole Dead
   Sea, than to allow its enemies
   to take hold of the Flame...

Enough. Miguel knows what he's talking about. He changed Fate from FATE. There is an entity of Fate. He even said that Serge's being was predestined? But how could that be possible if Serge had died, and only time travelling saved him? BECAUSE Fate KNOWS ALL AND DETERMINS TIME TRAVEL ASWELL! DUH! OTHERWISE IF SERGE STUFFED UP, WE'D BE DOOOMED! AND FATE WOULD CEASE TO EXIST IF TIME AND SPACE WERE DESTROYED! >.>

[AuraTwilight]

I'm saying that Fate IS ANOTHER ENTITY BESIDES THE PLANET, BUT THE PLANET IS SOME WEAKER SHITTY ENTITY!

Then the whole Entity concept is redundant.

Hello, Miguel is fully sane. He can remember the past. And he even tells Serge to strike him down so that Serge can go back to his time and Miguel can stop suffering.

No, he's not. Just because he can remember the past doesn't mean shit.

All of Miguel's speech

1) Most of that seemed to be poetic imagery. Like the "game" metaphor.
2) What made Miguel, a human imprisoned by FATE, an infalliable resource on the workings of the universe on a cosmic level?

Enough. Miguel knows what he's talking about. He changed Fate from FATE. There is an entity of Fate. He even said that Serge's being was predestined? But how could that be possible if Serge had died, and only time travelling saved him? BECAUSE Fate KNOWS ALL AND DETERMINS TIME TRAVEL ASWELL! DUH! OTHERWISE IF SERGE STUFFED UP, WE'D BE DOOOMED! AND FATE WOULD CEASE TO EXIST IF TIME AND SPACE WERE DESTROYED! >.>

uh...? What? Don't type in caps, it makes you look like a dumbass, and you're looking ridiculous enough as it is.