Masamune in Lavos timeline

[Agent 12]

I think Lavos timeline is the right one (the one where Crono and co. didn't do anything).  

I'm sure this has been asked before, but that will just make it easier to answer my questions.  Well we all know the Masamune was made by putting the knife in the Mammon Machine, do you think that Melchior was gutsy enough to do this himself?

--jp

[Zaperking]

Yeah, most likely since he wasn't jailed or anything.

[V_Translanka]

Not to mention the whole who-else-would-have factor...

[DeweyisOverrated]

It would have had to go into the MM at some point, as Lavos' energy was required to complete the forging.  And then of course, its broken, goes to Denarado (sp?) and remains there for... probably a really long time.

[AuraTwilight]

Lavos' Energy? I always figured it was Crono's/Melchior's dreams.

[V_Translanka]

Uh, what do you mean Aura? When the Red Knife is exposed to the MM, i.e. Lavos' energy, it thus becomes the Masamune we all know & love...

[DeweyisOverrated]

Lavos' Energy? I always figured it was Crono's/Melchior's dreams.

Masa/Mune say they reflect Melchoir's dreams (which is under debate as to just how literal or figurative it is).  Regardless, he made them, but the sword still needed to be "powered up" by the Mammon Machine to be completed.

[AuraTwilight]

I always figured that Crono's dreams caused to transform into an Excalibur-esqe sword like we know today :/ bah, whatever. It was just a thought.

[Agent 12]

I always figured that Crono's dreams caused to transform into an Excalibur-esqe sword like we know today :/ bah, whatever. It was just a thought.

Even if that was true in Lavo's timeline Crono didn't touch the Masamune.

So then answer me this, was it Melchior who caused all the guru's to be thrown through time in Lavo's timeline.  Maybe when he went to see if the mammon machine could turn the knife into the Masamune he awakened lavo's and caused events very similar to what we saw in Chrono Trigger.

--jp

[AuraTwilight]

Yea, sure, whatever.

[CatchRBFivy]

You're missing the whole "trapped in a block of ice guarded by giga gaia" thing.

You're traveling in time doesn't change the fact that he was imprisoned.  So it had to be transformed another way.  Perhaps on Masa and Mune's combined will.  We never know for sure it was teh MM that did it.  Maybe Masa and Mune realized the powered up sword was needed at the time Crono went to use it.  Then that could imply that it transformed when masa and mune realized Cyrus needed it to beat Magus.

But I don't like that theory.  It probably just happened some way we are never supposed to know since that timeline was destroyed afterall.

[Agent 12]

You're missing the whole "trapped in a block of ice guarded by giga gaia" thing.

Whoops, for some reason I was thinking Magus/prophet ordered them locked up...Hm then this brings up the question of how Melchior ended up in 1000 A.D. if he was safely locked up on the mountain of woe.  Hm, maybe Schala saved him and then he put the knife in the machine...I don't know I'm really grabbing straws here.

--jp

[Sentenal]

You're traveling in time doesn't change the fact that he was imprisoned. So it had to be transformed another way. Perhaps on Masa and Mune's combined will. We never know for sure it was teh MM that did it. Maybe Masa and Mune realized the powered up sword was needed at the time Crono went to use it. Then that could imply that it transformed when masa and mune realized Cyrus needed it to beat Magus.

The Prophet convinced the Queen to imprison the Gurus, and he was not there originally.  In Magus' flashback, all 3 Gurus are present at the Ocean Palace.

[Agent 12]

Hurray my memory didn't fail me after all.

--jp

[CatchRBFivy]

Ah I so I was wrong, sorry.  I've been so hung up on some theories in my head that are arising from Melchior's discontent with teh treatment of the earthbound ones that I forget the storyline.   I was thinking that for some reason he was locked up because he spoke up on their behalf.  I need to reasses myself and get my head straigh (or play the game again and remember all the goodness.)