RPG's: Past --> Present

[Sentenal]

Strategy RPGs hook me more now days than the traditional RPG, just because I havn't played as much.  Ogre Battle 64, my first Strategy RPG, is in my top 5.  FE7, then first fire emblem released in america, was great too.

And as for KOTOR, the game is ALOT different than other RPGs.  While its story is its weakness (it only gets decent the latter half), the battle system harkens back to D&D style, with dice rolls, etc etc.  And then theres the whole choosing all your actions, going dark side or light side aspect.  Both KOTOR games are pretty fresh to me, but not fresh enough for me to consider "great".

[Hadriel]

But the thing is that the heart of any RPG is its story.

[Shadow_Dragon]

I don't know if it's bad to revive old threads here, but I noticed this and just had to read through it and revive it. It's a shame I didn't know about the "General Discussion" when this was 'alive'...

Anyway, about nostalgia... About 5 years ago (or whenever exactly it came out) I got and played Majora's Mask (Zelda, in case you don't know). It was basically my favorite game, and I loved it so much. I don't know why, but I felt like everything was sooo immense. It's not like I actually explored every place, because, at that point, I was too scared to do anything without a guide, but I felt like it was an actual world. I recently replayed it (I just have to get 3 more heart pieces, then I can go to the moon and finish), and it's still one of my favorite games, but it comes nowhere near what I thought it was. I remember being sooo panicky and scared about doing the Link/Kafei mini-dungeon because of the timed aspect, but when I replayed it I was so disappointed; I think I got to the end before the mask even got past the first room. I think there's some aspect of not knowing exactly what's going on that makes something more amazing.

Can we make a list of good RPGs for varios systems? For some reason, I love RPGs more than most other games.


Also, why are Zelda and Kingdom Hearts considered RPGs? Zelda is in no way, in my opinion, an RPG, and the only 'RPG' element of Kingdom Hearts is the item/equip stuff, but I think being turn-based or relatively so makes something an RPG.


I don't know about old RPGs... The only that I can think of for the SNES are FFVI, CT, and SMRPG. I loved FFVI and CT, but I could never get into SMRPG. For some reason, I rented SMRPG a long time ago (6 years or more ago) with some friends, and I loved it because of choosing which kind of action to take. Again, I think that was a case of something being better because I didn't understand it. Someday I'll get into SMRPG, but it'll probably be in a while.

I'd like to keep talking about RPGs, and I have a lot to say, but I don't want to say it and then have this thread get no replies, so I'll say some more if people respond...

[Kazuki]

For SNES, FFV was a good one in my opinion (first game to utilize the job/class combination such as possibility of having a knight with black magic skills as well etc.?). I also liked Illusion of Gaia, though playing it as a really young kid from my old friend's SNES. I only really got up to the part where you first get the transformation skill, but I enjoyed the game mechanics a lot.

Anybody play Skies of Arcadia? Now THAT, in my opinion, was a great RPG.

[Shadow_Dragon]

I can't believe I forgot about FFV >_<
One of my favorite games, but I've become a perfectionist when I replay games, so I can't replay it without having to spend every second training to master jobs...

I have Skies of Arcadia Legends for GC. I got it more than a year ago, played up to where you get the first crystal, then just stopped cuz it annoyed me. Then, at the end of the last school year, I started playing again and did so obsessively. I really liked it, but the graphics annoyed me at first and Laruba (is that the name of the first town that you go to Nasr? the one that you think is the whole of Nasr until you find about Nasrad halfway through the game) just really annoyed me... I loved the music of the town in Ixa'Taka, I'd stand by the entrance before leaving just to get to a good part of the song. Also, I'm a bit curious about the graphics; they're obviously not wonderful for the GC, but they aren't terrible either. Were those the same graphics on the original (dreamcast?) version? Although I never had or even played a dreamcast, but it came out a bit past N64 and PSX, and I'm amazed if it had those graphics on something with the power of N64/PSX. The random battles really would've been overwhelmingly annoying had Aika not had those multi-targeting super moves. Ahh... rant. Anyway, in conclusion, which character did you choose for the end? I really didn't like Enrique at first, but I just got so used to using him that I just decided to keep him. Ok, I lied, that wasn't in conclusion. It really annoyed me that Galcian was weaker than Ramirez, yet Ramirez obeyed Galcian fiercely... also, in the second battle with Ramirez (the second unbeatable one) I was able to survive pretty well by using two sacrum (I think that's the one that did 1000HP to each person) crystals per turn and attacking with my third character, so I battled for quite a while before I decided that I was making no gap in HP and had to let myself die... Hmm... I never did the last battle with Piastol, I think I read that her appearances were related to how many moonberries you collected, and I didn't get all of them so she never appeared the last time, but, then again, I don't even think she was in the original Skies of Arcadia (the box says "bla bla bla and new characters" and shows a picture of a scene with Piastol).
[/rant]

[V_Translanka]

I dunno if I'd call Skies of Arcadia "Great"...But it was a good ol' romp. I <3 Ship Battles. The characters were a lil meh though...very cliche stuff throughout, but not necessarily bad...And those flubbin' voice overs for attacks! Bleh...Otherwise it was a fairly good RPG.

I also don't see FFV as being so great...Possibly because I played FFT before it...and because most of the characters stink...Galuf, one of the most developed characters <spoiler> gets dumped (DEAD'D) and replaced w/a character who's development is non-existent!

[DeweyisOverrated]

I liked SoA Legends.  Never played the Dreamcast version.  The graphics were apparently minimally better, but I disagree.  The textures were actually worse, because they were more compressed so they could fit the whole game on one disc.  

Piastol and the stupid things flying around were added to SoAL, so all the stories that resulted from there were new.

Anyway I enjoyed the game, except for one part in the dungeon underneath the colossiem early in the game.  I couldn't tell if it was my ears playing tricks on me, a glitch, or a scratchy disc.  I can't remember exactly, but it had something to do with the sound of the stepping of Vyse cutting out the music.  So like, if there was a step, the music wouldn't play while the step was beiong played.  It drove me INSANE.

[Shadow_Dragon]

Hm... I guess FFV wouldn't be as good if I'd played it before FFT... I remember I finished FFVI and when I started replaying FFVI, my friend was like "no, play FFV instead"... I liked the storyline, but, yeah, I guess it really wasn't wonderfully developped.

Ok, I'm going to start making a list of 'good' RPGs by starting off with what I have... Add on if you want.
Gamecube:
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Tales of Symphonia
Baten Kaitos

PSX:
Chrono Cross
Final Fantasy VII
(Final Fantasy VIII)
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy Tactics
Xenogears
Legend of Dragoon
Vagrant Story
Breath of Fire III
Star Ocean: The Second Story

SNES:
Star Ocean
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI
Super Mario RPG
Chrono Trigger

GBA:
Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis
Golden Sun
Golden Sun 2
Fire Emblem (7)
Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones (
(Final Fantasy Tactics Advance)
Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga




I would list PS2, but I was listing games that I have (or had, I traded in Tactics Ogre: The Knight of Lodis, Golden Sun, and Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, and I played Golden Sun 2 by borrowing it... ugh, I really wish I hadn't traded in Golden Sun and Tactics Ogre, now I have to buy them back)

I also put FFVIII and FFTA in parentheses because I'm sure people find them debatable as being good..

[DeweyisOverrated]

The GC RPG's I'm not a big fan of.  I liked SoAL, but it's just a remake of a DC game.  Baten Kaitos looked good, but was a bad game imo.  Tales of Symphonia had a crack-like battle system that I loved, but the game other than that was confusing and not fun.  Mario RPG (Thousnad Year Door) got insane reviews from everywhere, but I haven't tried it.  I didn't liek the one for 64, I don't really see how this one would be that different.  My main problem is the simplified battle system.

[Sentenal]

I don't consider Zelda an RPG, but I consider Kingdom Hearts a RPG, definatly.

What makes an RPG?  Is it a good plot/storyline?  No, but thats almost a requirement for one, but other genres can have it.  Is it Turn-Based combat?  No.  Thats just the more common type.  If RPGs can only be Turn Based, like the mainstay FF series, then tons of good RPGs arn't RPGs.  Then what makes it?  Character development.  Basically, you start the game with a character, and as he fights, he gets strong, his stats increase, he "level up"s.  If you gain levels, or something of that nature, then I consider it to be part RPG.  Kingdom Hearts is what is know as an "Action RPG", which unfortunatly is a dieing breed.  You gain levels, you equip equipment, you get new party members, you explore towns, has a good story.

As for my list of great RPGs, I won't do them per console, I'll do them per how much greatness they have.

1- Final Fantasy 4.  The father of the Modern RPG.
2- Chrono Trigger.  'Nuff said.
2- Final Fantasy 6.  Not a typo, its tied with Chrono Trigger for number 2.  It improved on what FF4 did, refining the RPG that we know today.
4- Ogre Battle 64.  IMO, the greatest Strategy RPG ever.
5- Secret of Mana 2 (SD3).  IMO, the greatest Action RPG I've ever played.
6- Final Fantasy 7.  Basically, brought Final Fantasy to the playstation generation, and was good at the same time.
7- Kingdom Hearts.  First time I played it, didn't like it so much.  Second time, I really got into it.  I'm really fired up about KH2.
8- Fire Emblem 6.  This was the one with Roy.  I liked the story better than FE7, with Eliwood.  Good strategy RPG.
9- Secret of Mana.  The first Action RPG I've ever played, and was great.
10- EDIT: Earthbound.  I can't believe I forgot about this one!

[Weggy]

Zelda is not a RPG.  I've yet to hear one solid point about why it should be considered so.  Nintendo says its an Action/Adventure game, so it is.

Earthbound is really so-so.  I don't care how different the story is, it just seems really hard to follow sometimes.  I do applaud them for successfully pulling off a RPG in a modern setting however.

FF7 I really think gets more hype than it deserves.  I thought it was below average AT BEST.  FF8 has to be the worst FF of the entire series.  IMO, the only good FF on the PSX was FF9.  That was a pretty good game.  FF4 and FF5 are definently the best of the series however.

The SNES was really the promised land of the RPG.  Just about every one on there is decent, most good, and many fantastic.  Some that people have not mentioned however...

Tales of Phantasia - Remade for PSX, one of my favorite RPGs ever.  It really sways back and forth between this and Chrono Trigger.

Star Ocean - Great game, its the classic that started em all.  SO2 for PSX is also excellent, and SO3 for the PS2 is good but is very lacking compared to its prequels.

Lufia 2 - One of the finest RPGs of all time.  Not much more to say about it, go play it!

BoF 1 and 2 - They both suffer from a rather dry translation, but even barring that they are good games.

EVO the search for Eden - A weird action RPG where you move up the evolutionary chain from fish thing all the way to human.  Fun, however.

Soul Blazer / Illusion of Gaia / Terranigma - All 3 great action RPGs by Enix, worth checking out.

Front Mission / Front Mission: Gun Hazard - FM1 is a strategy/rpg hybrid, wheras Gun Hazard is a side-scrolling action RPG.  Solid games with mechs, definently a blast.

Seiken Densetsu 2 and 3 - Aka Secret of Mana, great action RPGs from Square.

Super Mario RPG - A bit on the short side, but still a load of fun.

Not for the SNES, but Golden Sun 1 and 2 are the finest RPGs on the GBA.

Though if youre looking for a good RPG, I highly highly recommend Tales of Phantasia and Lufia 2.

[Kazuki]

One thing that did annoy me about SOAL was the iffy bits of voice acting inserted. I think they should have either made the entire remake (for the GC) complete voice acting (which they could have) or made it just text, not the mostly text with little bits of speech chirping in (Vyse: Uh huh! Aika: Yep! Fina: Mmm...)

[nightmare975]

My list,
Gamecube:
Gladius

PSX:
Chrono Cross
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy VIII
Final Fantasy IX
Final Fantasy Tactics
Vagrant Story

SNES:
Final Fantasy IV
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI
Super Mario RPG
Chrono Trigger
Terranigma
Tales of Phantasa

GBA:
Golden Sun
Fire Emblem (7)

[Shadow_Dragon]

Can someone explain to me what makes Tales of Phantasia, Tales of Destiny, and Tales of Destiny 2 so great?
Tales of Phantasia was the first Tales game that I started playing, and I really liked it, though I don't think I ever liked the battle system. I eventually stopped playing cuz I couldn't figure out where to go in one dungeon and there were just too many random battles to figure out where to go. I was planning on waiting for the GBA remake to play it again, but it appears that they decided to not release that in the US... Eventually I saw an ad or something for Tales of Symphonia, and I was intent on getting it. I went to Hollywood Video the day it came out to see if they had it, and then I found out they didn't get more games until fridays, so on Friday I went and they hadn't gotten it yet, so I had them reserve it till the end of the day... After that, I spent 15 of the 30-day-rental thing playing Tales of Symphonia, and eventually I bought it (though I got to the 2nd disc during the rental)... Eventually I bought Tales of Destiny because I heard somewhere that Tales of Symphonia's battle system was exactly similar to Tales of Destiny 2's system, and I figured Tales of Destiny 2 was similar to the first.
So, I started playing Tales of Destiny, which has a similar battle system to Tales of Phantasia, and I just hated the battle system. I would love it if you could just slash your sword wherever you stand like you can in Tales of Symphonia, but you have to run up to the opponents, slash, run back, run up to the opponents, etc., and I found it very hard to get to stay where the opponents were standing. ALSO, the character attacks MUCH slower than you can press the button, so I felt like I was just tapping the A button while having maybe 1/5th of the hits actually make an attack. And, even then, there was no sort of combo thing that I could find, you'd just slash, slash, slash, slash, slash (or stab, stab, stab, stab) with lots of time inbetween...

[Sentenal]

I edited my list.  I forgot about Earthbound, so gave it my #10 spot.

Can you people explain why you think FF5 is so great?  I know people like the job system but... meh.