RPG's: Past --> Present

[DeweyisOverrated]

There are a few issues I want to address with the "evolution" of RPG's from say, early 90's (late 80's?) to now.

First off, does anyone feel that there has been a dramatic drop-off in the quality of them?  I feel like the golden age of RPG's was about a 5 year period from around 1993-1998.  After that, it seemed to drop off.  If you look at any general list of the greatest RPG's of all time, most of them will be from that general time period, and most of those dominate the top spots.

Second, I feel like they've gotten easier over time, which makes no sense at all.  Let me explain.  Has anyone here ever played FFI (jap)?  BALLS HARD.  IV (jap) was insane as well.  After that, they seemed to get easier.  Now, this doesn't make any sense, especially when talking about RPG's.  When you think about it, the ONLY difference between current gen RPG's and RPG's from 10 years ago is the graphics.  The jump from 2-d to 3-d.  The basic premise of the game is identical, however.  Use menu commands in a strategic order.  Lots of number crunching.  It's the same.  So, all current consoles do is ILLUSTRATE the commands in a more dramatic fashion.  That shouldn't have any effect on how hard the actual game is, right?  But, for some reason, RPG's as of late are a joke.  And it's somewhat frustrating.

Agree/Disagree?

[AuraTwilight]

100%. It's freaking creepy! I had to use cheat codes to finish CT (I know, I'm ashamed) and I never actually completed FF2. >_> even WITH cheat codes and walkthroughs

Tales of Symphonia? Pokemon? (don't even start) Baten Kaitos? snappity snap snap. But STILL fun. It could be because weapons are better and enemies are weaker or...something.

[Legend of the Past]

It's really sad, you know. In few years from now, the toddlers will be teens. And we will be men. And we shall work hard to stay alive and not be able to tell them the truth of RPG's. And they shall play games with good graphics, cheesy stories who are easily finished.

CT is kind of easy, too. Go through the game, and by the time you get Epoch and finish the side-quests, you're ready to take on Lavos, no further level-ups needed. CC is VERY linear when it comes to leveling up. The most you'll get is an extra 2 HP for every monster battle. Sad.

[AuraTwilight]

But it'll get worse. These people playing shitastic RPG's will one day be making them. urhrhrhr.

[Legend of the Past]

Those who can't distinguish between good and bad RPG's won't get jobs.

[Sentenal]

RPG's quality may have seemed to drop off because they really arn't fresh anymore.  I mean, I can play a new FF game now, and I get to a part of the game, get to a puzzle or hard enemy, and then based on my past experiances with RPG's, can easily figure out what to do.

[Agent 12]

I personally agree with you about the "golden days" of RPG's but it's hard for me to judge difficutly.  I was alot younger when I played Chrono Trigger, and I remember it being SOOO hard (especially magus man was that tough) but playing it now it's really easy.  So I can't tell if I just grew up and it seems like games are easier or if they really have gotten easier. On the same note I think that the golden days of RPG's might be in your mind too.  

Everyone my age says CT or FF6 when you say what's the greatest RPG but it's hard to tell if it was just the experience you felt when you play your first few RPG's.  Your first RPG's are so new and innovative simply because you never experienced them before.

--jp

[ZeaLitY]

It's a tricky argument, and you can't fall victim to nostalgia. Compare FF6 to a new one today, and give them to a person who has never played an RPG before. Invariably, they're probably going to come out liking the new one -- at least, initially. I think there's a point of RPG experience at which a player gets over the first thrills and fun of playing a game with an RPG system and gaining experience, and starts to crave something deeper. Right now, my top priorities in a game are character roundness, atmosphere, and plot. Chrono Cross, for instance, has these in masterful form (...okay, not character roundness for some), but it's not something that can be picked up and roared through by a new gamer. It's almost like an acquired taste.

I may be totally wrong, though, since I have a limited experience in RPGs. To date, I've played BoF I & II, FF6, CT/CC, SMRPG. And I think a couple others.

[Oswego del Fuego]

I agree with what you say, ZeaLitY, and I'll take it a step further.  I think that people who "came of age" in regard to RPGs (and video games in general) are likely to get stuck liking whatever game style was popular at that time.  In some respects, newer RPGs are typically better than old ones, but I find myself prefering older RPGs most of the time--specifically those from the 16 bit era, when I was in middle school/high school and got to really like RPGs.

However, your point about nostalgia is, I think, closest to the truth.  Compare a game like Final Fantasy IV or Phantasy Star II--games which have devoted followings--and compare them to games like Final Fantasy VIII or Crono Cross--games which are savaged by fan-boys.  You simply can't deny that FF8 and Cross are superior in really every measurable way, but the nostalgia factor distorts our perceptions.  (And for the record, I love all of the games I just mentioned.)

There's no convincing fan-boys, though.  The Compendium is an exception because my experiences here are always good, but I find it's almost better not to discuss these things.  You either see it one way, or the other, and nobody ever changes their mind about it.

Anyway, back to the Schala sprite.  

OdF

[Sentenal]

You simply can't deny that FF8 and Cross are superior in really every measurable way

I'll pretend you didn't say that about FF8.

Although I do fall pray to nostalgia, I do try and look at games as how they are for their time.  Of course a new, PS2 RPG would be better in serveral ways to, for example, FF4.  But look at what FF4 was in its time:  Great graphics, one of the first ATB battle systems (if not the first), and a story I think to this day thats one of the best around.  In order to compare new games to old games you have to look at how they are to their generation.  How much a change they did.  Will the RPG world be much different in the future because of games like FF10, or CC (I'm sorry, I think its just decent)?  Well, FF10 because of the voice acting, maybe, but other than that, not by much.  Or was the RPG landscape changed due to FF4 (wow, an RPG with a good plot!), FF7 (well, created the Modern RPG) and others much greater?

[ZeaLitY]

I still hear this banter about FF8, and I'm going to play it above all other new Final Fantasy titles simply to figure out what the anger is about. The people denouncing it don't sound too dissimilar from Cross haters, so I'm hoping for a game that's immeasurably rich in feel, atmosphere, and characters, but didn't satisfy some need like gameplay or something.

[Agent 12]

I could never get into the FF8 draw system. I think that the reason I disliked the game so much is because I am a perfectionist, so every time there was a new spell I would have to draw until I had 300 (100 for each member of it).  It also stopped me from casting my most powerful spells because of it's junction system.  The story was OK overall, I loved all the Garden stuff at the beginning but after that I was just mildly interested.  

Of the "newer RPG's" I think FF7 wins hands down.  And I don't care if you call me a fanboy, that game is GREAT.  I think it was the first good 3d RPG, I love the magic system, which (once again I'm a perfectionist) allowed me through TONS of wasted time to have every spell at once.  Finally, I found the story engaging from beginning to end (maybe slightly less than engaging for part of the middle).  

--jp

[Sentenal]

As for FF8, the game is real good in the begining.  Then, it just lost it.  You know an RPG isn't good when I, an RPG freak, doesn't feel compleled to beat it.  The Draw/Junctioning systems is anti-magic, and you become to dependant on GFs during boss fights.  I myself got to the part of the game thats right before the end, and I just didn't feel like doing the side quests, and prepare for the end.  This was my second time going through, and I was doing it just to give the game another chance -_-

[Agent 12]

Sentenal:

Oh man you reminded me, the GF's.  They were so annoyingly(good word there) long.  AND (here's me being a perfectionist again) once I got boost I felt compelled to get it as high as possible so I didn't even get a chance to watch the movies 379 times.  Plus one more thing was once you get to the end you can't go back and explore old town's, finish sidequest and the such unless you made a save before you ...I don't want to give away any spoilers here...Which of course I didn't make a save so I was basically stuck.

--jp

[DeweyisOverrated]

For whoever said "It was hard back then, maybe we jsut think its easier because we've grown accustomed to them"... pick up a copy of FF1 jap (or eng, just make sure its not he dumbed down version) and tell me that it isn't impossible.

As for FF8, here's the reason people hated it.  

Battle!
Summon GF!
(wait 2 minutes)
Battle over!

GF's cost nothing to use, so there was no incentive to use a weaker regular attack over it.

Anyway, nostalgia might play a small role, but not much.  I didn't start playing RPG's until about, oh 98, 99.  So I was really on a 5 year delay of the good stuff.  But I played the stuff coming out at that time, and the old-school stuff simultaneously.  And, in general, I hated the new stuff, and loved the old stuff.  Even to this day, it remains the same.  I play Xenosaga, hate it.  I just started Illusion of Gaia, and I love it.  [/quote]