Lavos and Time Devourer physical construction

[Parallax]

After thinking back on the final battles of CT and CC, I can see a vague pattern in the physical design and LOOK to the final bosses.

In Chrono Trigger, no matter which way you do it, you go through an outer shell and face a very lean, mean killing machine that seems like it's got some kind of awareness or intelligence.

Likewise, in Chrono Cross, facing the Time Devourer,  one can see the basic shell, and another entity inside it, Schala.


Now has there ever been any thought as to the relationship between these looks? Could it be that  the outside of Lavos is a kind of "armor" housing a sentient being inside? Is it possible that the Lavos one fights inside the shell (not the accumulated DNA creature) is some sort of sentient being controlling Lavos? Or is it being controlled BY Lavos?

Insiide the Time Devourer, Schala seems to be in some kind of stasis, where as inside Lavos, this being is obviously very awake and in control. Could Lavos latch on to other beings as a fail-safe of survival? Why bother fighting for your own needs when you can force someone else to do it for you, the being inside the Lavos shell is obviously connected, "bonded" with Lavos. Should Lavos die, it dies, all Lavos has to do is sit there and the thing on the inside does the work for it.

This COULD be a reason why Time Devourer is so small. Schala is very powerful and obviously hasn't been completely taken over yet, she's still able to be saved. Perhaps the being Cronos and friends fought was the unfortunate victim of Lavos, too far gone to save?



Just some ideas throwing out there.

[saridon]

After thinking back on the final battles of CT and CC, I can see a vague pattern in the physical design and LOOK to the final bosses.

well the Time Devourer is a lavos spawn that merged with schala, so they're going to look alike

Could it be that the outside of Lavos is a kind of "armor" housing a sentient being inside? Is it possible that the Lavos one fights inside the shell (not the accumulated DNA creature) is some sort of sentient being controlling Lavos? Or is it being controlled BY Lavos?

Interesting, I always thought of the shell as the basic original lavos appearence and the other 2 forms were the forms of lavos after collecting the DNA from the planet.

[DeweyisOverrated]

I've actually always thought as the "big" Lavos as a sort of shell for Lavos, and he himself evolves inside of it.  The fact that in CC its a Lavos spawn accounts for why its smaller in comparison to the original.

[Chrono'99]

There's no Lavos Spawn in CC. There's never any mention of Lavos Spawns, only mentions of the Lavos that was gonna destroy the world but was defeated by Crono and his party. The fact that Lavos already had more than 3 forms with different sizes in CT accounts for why it has yet another form in CC.

[AuraTwilight]

This COULD be a reason why Time Devourer is so small. Schala is very powerful and obviously hasn't been completely taken over yet, she's still able to be saved. Perhaps the being Cronos and friends fought was the unfortunate victim of Lavos, too far gone to save?

The most important part of this post that no one has addressed yet. The Time Devourer is small possibily because he just got the shit kicked out of him. Technically speaking, the PSX couldn't smoothly run all the models they wanted to use for the Time Devourer, so they had to make him smaller. The Time Devourer, while still Lavos, is a different species. A mutant. Schala's the only "victim" of Lavos. The Lavos Core you fight inside Lavos IS Lavos. The brain. The Shell acts as a spaceship to carry Lavos from one planet to another. The second form, Inner Lavos, is probably the DNA he inherited from his parent on the planet he was born on. And Lavos Core, the third form, is all the DNA he gathered on earth, the second form he was going to pass to his children.

[DeweyisOverrated]

I don't think they made him smaller due to the PSX not being able to process it.  The Fused Dragon was pretty big, and they could've used a few more tricks for the system to handle it.

[Kazuki]

well the Time Devourer is a lavos spawn that merged with schala, so they're going to look alike

The Lavos that fused with Schala in the TD was a spawn? That doesn't make any sense though; Crono defeated Lavos and he was sent to the DBT, so why would it be a spawn?

[Legend of the Past]

The Lavos bit that fused with Schala in the TD was a spawn?

A Lavos Bit? That's definetly a new one.

[Eriol]

The Shell acts as a spaceship to carry Lavos from one planet to another. The second form, Inner Lavos, is probably the DNA he inherited from his parent on the planet he was born on. And Lavos Core, the third form, is all the DNA he gathered on earth, the second form he was going to pass to his children.

I always thought that Lavos was unaltered (other than growth/power) from his stay on Earth, and it is only his CHILDREN which incorporate DNA, and are thus changed beings.

Think of it like any other reproduction.  When a mother concieves a child, DNA is mixed from her and the father, creating the child.  But aside from certain minor physical changes (hips, etc, dependant on species), her own DNA is unaltered.  The act of "combining DNA" to create children doesn't have to alter themselves too.

So I'm just saying it's 100% possible that all the forms of Lavos in CT are how it always was, not incorporating ANY DNA from earth, and only it's children have earthly DNA in addition to "Lavos DNA".  It's not a "need" that any of Lavos' forms where a result of a DNA combination.  It's possible, but it's not necessary IMO.

[Kazuki]

Whoa, tpyo! What I meant to say was the portion of the Time Devourer that consisted of Lavos, not the individual bit   .

[Zaperking]

Schala's the only "victim" of Lavos.

*cough*...... The Dragon Gods.... And supposedly the Mammon Machine....

[Legend of the Past]

*cough*...... The Dragon Gods.... And supposedly the Mammon Machine....

You're right about the DG, but the Mammon Machine? Since when can that sinister device be considered a victim of anything?

[AuraTwilight]

He was addressing creatures that have been turned into Lavos Cores or something, so the Dragon God doesn't fit exactly

I always thought that Lavos was unaltered (other than growth/power) from his stay on Earth, and it is only his CHILDREN which incorporate DNA, and are thus changed beings.

So, you're just going to ignore that whole speech at the end of Chrono Trigger where Lavos is revealed to have the DNA of all living things on Earth? Whatever.

[Chrono'99]

I always thought that Lavos was unaltered (other than growth/power) from his stay on Earth, and it is only his CHILDREN which incorporate DNA, and are thus changed beings.

So, you're just going to ignore that whole speech at the end of Chrono Trigger where Lavos is revealed to have the DNA of all living things on Earth? Whatever.

No, he's just reminding you that the Lavos shell, the inner Lavos, the Lavos core, the Lavos spawns are all "Lavoses" and that we don't necessarily know which "Lavos" the party is referring to at the end of CT.

[Eriol]

He was addressing creatures that have been turned into Lavos Cores or something, so the Dragon God doesn't fit exactly

I always thought that Lavos was unaltered (other than growth/power) from his stay on Earth, and it is only his CHILDREN which incorporate DNA, and are thus changed beings.

So, you're just going to ignore that whole speech at the end of Chrono Trigger where Lavos is revealed to have the DNA of all living things on Earth? Whatever.

As I recall (though I don't remember it word-for-word), they say that it combined it's dna with the dna it found on earth to produce the creatures on Death Peak.  So it used earthly dna for reproduction, but that says nothing about incorporating it into itself.  It DID say it was MANIPULATING the dna of other creatures on earth, but again, I remember nothing about saying it incorporated it into itself.

But I could be wrong.  The script has to be somewhere doesn't it?  Anybody have exact quotes from the final battle where these things are mentioned?