Author Topic: Fears  (Read 12993 times)

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #90 on: October 06, 2005, 05:39:41 am »
We are the greatest of all beings because we do not obey gods every whim, and we have a mind of own, and some people believe we are in his form. Therefore, God finds that cool
EDIT: I live in Australia  :oops:  but the thing is the Chrisitans in our school and community are quite nice, and even my mum (we arent christian) said God will make Christians life good on earth, because they are nice people >.>

Zaperking

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« Reply #91 on: October 06, 2005, 09:55:10 am »
I'm Christian. I know many Christians who are mean and rude and stuff. The thing I hate the most is how peolpe are exploiting God and our worship. Selling those t-shirts with stuff like "Jesus is my homeboy", "Mary is my homegirl" and like all those non-christian rappers who wear a crusufix to look cool >.> Grrr. Despicable. May they burn in hell.

Silvercry

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« Reply #92 on: October 06, 2005, 10:53:15 am »
Quote from: Zaperking
I'm Christian. I know many Christians who are mean and rude and stuff. The thing I hate the most is how peolpe are exploiting God and our worship. Selling those t-shirts with stuff like "Jesus is my homeboy", "Mary is my homegirl" and like all those non-christian rappers who wear a crusufix to look cool >.> Grrr. Despicable. May they burn in hell.


Do you realize that with that one sentence (in bold above), you just proved Lord J right?

ZeaLitY

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« Reply #93 on: October 06, 2005, 11:06:22 am »
I think I already posted it, but I'm afraid of not achieving my dream. My real dream (as in, vision in the night) this morning really hit me hard with that today.

Zaperking

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« Reply #94 on: October 06, 2005, 06:05:10 pm »
Quote from: Silvercry
Quote from: Zaperking
I'm Christian. I know many Christians who are mean and rude and stuff. The thing I hate the most is how peolpe are exploiting God and our worship. Selling those t-shirts with stuff like "Jesus is my homeboy", "Mary is my homegirl" and like all those non-christian rappers who wear a crusufix to look cool >.> Grrr. Despicable. May they burn in hell.


Do you realize that with that one sentence (in bold above), you just proved Lord J right?


Umm.. No... Let us Christians have atleast one good thing about our religion. We can condemn people :P But not judge >.<

SilentMartyr

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« Reply #95 on: October 06, 2005, 06:06:24 pm »
Quote from: Lord J esq
Quote from: SilentMartyr
Quote from: Lord J esq
Quote from: SilentMartyr
True, but in the same note, denying a part of who you are just hurts you in the long run. When those emotions eventually come out, you won't know how to handle them.

"Who you are" is never set in stone. Our behaviors reinforce our personality. You seem to be implying that if we inhibit our behaviors, they will remain perfectly intact and will inevitably erupt at some point in the future. That isn't necessarily so. Personality is dynamic, and behavior, and inhibition is an important quality of personality.

No, I am just refering to parts of your emotions/personality that you as a person would repress because you are ashamed/fearful/whatever of them. You might be able to repress them forever, but you never know what might trigger them to be released.

You are still assuming that one's personality is immutable, and that repressing whatever parts of one's personality is an exercise in self-denial that has no guarantee of success and must be maintained forever. This assumption is false from a behavioral perspective. Behavior shapes personality. That's not a controversial idea; that's a part of psychology. Your original quote, which I included above, asserts in no uncertain terms the false idea that we cannot change who we are, and to even try is harmful and risky. I don't think you realized that this implies we should behave as unfettered hedonists.


You are assuming that I think this. Which is untrue, I know that being able to change your own personality is not something that can happen overnight. I am not refering to the parts that we are trying to change, but the parts that we accept but do not let out all the time. For example, most men hide thier emotional side to the masses. They do not try and change this part of them, they accept it but push it deep inside them so that it doesn't come out. Except in situtations where it can not be held in, or when certain chemical put into your body open this part of you. Thus, you see the jocks who are incredibly macho, but when they are drunk they become buddy buddy with everyone they see. Hence the phrase "I love you man!" was born. I can see how you misinterpreted my statements, for I am lazy and usually try and summarize rather than divulge.

I'll get to the other half on a later time. Work is over.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #96 on: October 06, 2005, 06:55:15 pm »
Quote from: Zaperking
Umm.. No... Let us Christians have atleast one good thing about our religion. We can condemn people :P But not judge >.<

How does that work, exactly? Tell me the difference between "condemn" and "judge."

Quote from: SilentMartyr
You are assuming that I think this. Which is untrue, I know that being able to change your own personality is not something that can happen overnight. I am not refering to the parts that we are trying to change, but the parts that we accept but do not let out all the time. For example, most men hide thier emotional side to the masses. They do not try and change this part of them, they accept it but push it deep inside them so that it doesn't come out. Except in situtations where it can not be held in, or when certain chemical put into your body open this part of you. Thus, you see the jocks who are incredibly macho, but when they are drunk they become buddy buddy with everyone they see. Hence the phrase "I love you man!" was born. I can see how you misinterpreted my statements, for I am lazy and usually try and summarize rather than divulge.

I think we're getting away from what we were originally talking about. Leebot said that his fear was losing his mind--i.e., being intoxicated:

Quote from: SilentMartyr
Quote from: Lord J esq
Quote from: SilentMartyr
Quote from: Shadow_Dragon
Quote from: Leebot
My one fear is kind of similar to Aitrus': The fear of losing my mind. But mine is not necessarily just through insanity (in fact, if it developed naturally out of me, that wouldn't trigger the fear), but through any outside factor interfering with my being. That's why I never drink any alcohol, and one of many reasons I'll never do other drugs.


I never thought of it as a fear, just as something I thought crazy to do (and crazy that so many people do it). It bothers me when people advise people to drink some before a party to loosen up; I just don't see why people would voluntarily want their minds to be controlled...


Why do you think it is crazy?

Because one's mind is oneself. There is no distinction between the two. Abandoning our will to the influence of an intoxicating substance is almost the stupidest choice a person can make, in character terms. The world can throw boatloads and dumptruckfuls of shit at us, and all we can do is deal, but as long as we're in control of ourselves there is always a way ahead...come what may.

Or, to put it less figuratively, everything about who we are and what we do, begins with our state of mind.


You make it sound like the person is completely different when they are under the influence. If anything the person is more "themself" in this inebriated state, for they are less inhibited by thier fears. Whether this is for good or for worse is dependent on the person.

That's where "inhibition" came into the discussion, with me saying:

Quote from: Lord J esq
I hold that inhibition is an important quality of personality. Oftentimes our inhibitions define and sharpen our character.

All of which let to this final pertinent exchange:

Quote from: Lord J esq
Quote from: SilentMartyr
True, but in the same note, denying a part of who you are just hurts you in the long run. When those emotions eventually come out, you won't know how to handle them.

"Who you are" is never set in stone. Our behaviors reinforce our personality. You seem to be implying that if we inhibit our behaviors, they will remain perfectly intact and will inevitably erupt at some point in the future. That isn't necessarily so. Personality is dynamic, and behavior, and inhibition is an important quality of personality.

What you're talking about is unconditional self-indulgence, a behavioral trait which, absent external limiting factors, is a guaranteed path to self-destruction. Inhibition is not an inherently wrong or bad quality. Our biological instincts, our desire for immediate physical gratification, our emotional pettiness, our imprudence and small-mindedness, our impulsiveness, and a whole host of other human qualities...these are all frequently counterproductive to people's ideals of character and personal ambitions. Inhibition is a way of rationally or at least dutifully imposing self-discipline on oneself in order to achieve something more desirable than the basic short-term satisfaction of uncondtional self-indulgence.

So what I have been saying all this time is that Leebot's fear is well-founded, and the inhibition against losing control over oneself by substance abuse is an understandable and respectable character trait. But now we get back to what you just said:

Quote from: SilentMartyr
You are assuming that I think this. Which is untrue, I know that being able to change your own personality is not something that can happen overnight. I am not refering to the parts that we are trying to change, but the parts that we accept but do not let out all the time. For example, most men hide thier emotional side to the masses. They do not try and change this part of them, they accept it but push it deep inside them so that it doesn't come out. Except in situtations where it can not be held in, or when certain chemical put into your body open this part of you. Thus, you see the jocks who are incredibly macho, but when they are drunk they become buddy buddy with everyone they see. Hence the phrase "I love you man!" was born. I can see how you misinterpreted my statements, for I am lazy and usually try and summarize rather than divulge.

There's no disagreement between us that most people inhibit themselves from acting on every last emotional impulse, and that sans inhibition these emotions would become behaviors, but that's not what I was talking about. I've been saying that inhibition, like many other traits, is an important part of our character.

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #97 on: October 06, 2005, 09:40:43 pm »
Quote
Condemn:   1.  To express strong disapproval of: condemned the needless waste of food.
   2. To pronounce judgment against; sentence: condemned the felons to prison.
   3. To judge or declare to be unfit for use or consumption, usually by official order: condemn an old building.
   4. To lend credence to or provide evidence for an adverse judgment against: were condemned by their actions.
   5. Law. To appropriate (property) for public use.

Quote
Judge:    1.  To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration: judge heights; judging character.
   2.
         1. Law. To hear and decide on in a court of law; try: judge a case.
         2. Obsolete. To pass sentence on; condemn.
         3. To act as one appointed to decide the winners of: judge an essay contest.
   3. To determine or declare after consideration or deliberation.
   4. Informal. To have as an opinion or assumption; suppose: I judge you're right.
   5. Bible. To govern; rule. Used of an ancient Israelite leader.

Yeah, and have you seen porn star and "gangstas" wearing crusifixs to look cool and those "lebs" that wear moon-stars to look "homie" as well. They make me sick. And expanding on that to the world of gangstas, those people that put on hiphop very loud in their cars and drive around. Man, i want to throw a rock at their heads :twisted:

Also, i agree with Lord J that inhibition is an important part of who we are. But maybe Leebots fear is that when you "lose" your mind that you will release secrets that were not supposed to be heard by others, like in the Simpsons when Troy McLure told Homer about the sham marriage because he was drunk

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #98 on: October 06, 2005, 09:59:02 pm »
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
Quote
Condemn:   1.  To express strong disapproval of: condemned the needless waste of food.
   2. To pronounce judgment against; sentence: condemned the felons to prison.
   3. To judge or declare to be unfit for use or consumption, usually by official order: condemn an old building.
   4. To lend credence to or provide evidence for an adverse judgment against: were condemned by their actions.
   5. Law. To appropriate (property) for public use.

Quote
Judge:    1.  To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration: judge heights; judging character.
   2.
         1. Law. To hear and decide on in a court of law; try: judge a case.
         2. Obsolete. To pass sentence on; condemn.
         3. To act as one appointed to decide the winners of: judge an essay contest.
   3. To determine or declare after consideration or deliberation.
   4. Informal. To have as an opinion or assumption; suppose: I judge you're right.
   5. Bible. To govern; rule. Used of an ancient Israelite leader.

Yeah, and have you seen porn star and "gangstas" wearing crusifixs to look cool and those "lebs" that wear moon-stars to look "homie" as well. They make me sick. And expanding on that to the world of gangstas, those people that put on hiphop very loud in their cars and drive around. Man, i want to throw a rock at their heads :twisted:

... Golly! It's not every day somone answers a Lord J question by quoting the dictionary. I have to give you plaudits for your sheer audacity, but you might bother to read those definitions next time, eh? To condemn something is to pass a value judgment on it. Condemnation is a narrow case of judgment. Four of the five definitions of the word condemn (and the fifth is a legal usage) make this connection; three of them with explicit use of the word judge! How obvious do you need it to be?

I'm just not buying it that you can "condemn without judging" a person. Don't be coy with the truth; let's call a spade a spade!

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #99 on: October 06, 2005, 10:07:29 pm »
I never tried to prove you wrong, just showing the info
EDIT: Plus, condemn is Judgement +. I sound stupid dont i.
"I condemn you to hell!"
"I judge you to hell!(?)"
You must judge before you, you condemn. You can not judge someone to prison, you judge them, find them guilty, and sentence them to prison
EDIT: OK, i didnt read your last post fully. If you dont agree with my last edited version, so be it.

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #100 on: October 06, 2005, 10:13:03 pm »
You are totally right. I mixed you up with Zaper. I'm sorry, Burning Z.

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #101 on: October 06, 2005, 10:16:13 pm »
Thats ok. I dont know if you said sorry to my first version or edited version. If its my edited version, youre going to reply with a very long post arent you?

Lord J Esq

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« Reply #102 on: October 06, 2005, 10:43:30 pm »
Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
Thats ok. I dont know if you said sorry to my first version or edited version. If its my edited version, youre going to reply with a very long post arent you?

I spoke in reply to your unedited, one-line, original post. As for your edits, I don't need such a sophomoric lecture, so I will spare you any lengthy reply. It is Zaper's folly to wage and to lose.

SilentMartyr

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« Reply #103 on: October 07, 2005, 03:54:11 pm »
Quote from: Lord J esq
[A bunch of jazz]
So what I have been saying all this time is that Leebot's fear is well-founded, and the inhibition against losing control over oneself by substance abuse is an understandable and respectable character trait. But now we get back to what you just said:

Quote from: SilentMartyr
You are assuming that I think this. Which is untrue, I know that being able to change your own personality is not something that can happen overnight. I am not refering to the parts that we are trying to change, but the parts that we accept but do not let out all the time. For example, most men hide thier emotional side to the masses. They do not try and change this part of them, they accept it but push it deep inside them so that it doesn't come out. Except in situtations where it can not be held in, or when certain chemical put into your body open this part of you. Thus, you see the jocks who are incredibly macho, but when they are drunk they become buddy buddy with everyone they see. Hence the phrase "I love you man!" was born. I can see how you misinterpreted my statements, for I am lazy and usually try and summarize rather than divulge.

There's no disagreement between us that most people inhibit themselves from acting on every last emotional impulse, and that sans inhibition these emotions would become behaviors, but that's not what I was talking about. I've been saying that inhibition, like many other traits, is an important part of our character.


Well you could have saved a bunch of pages and just said it. Oh well. 8)

Zaperking

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« Reply #104 on: October 07, 2005, 10:57:10 pm »
Deleted by Moderator: Flaming