Chrono Trigger is now on Steam

[Redline57]

How in God's name is the steam download a HUNDRED times larger than the emulator I use on my PC which has worked well for almost 15 years on my pentium celeron? Steam, have my emulator, its FREE and works better you stupid retards. Again, I hate steam, you guys suck

[Acacia Sgt]

I'd guess some of the same reasons there are also size variations within the various versions. Since best I know, the SNES version isn't the same size as the PSX, or DS, or mobile ones.

If you emulator is a SNES one, well, that would make it more obvious, as SNES games are barely 4-6 MB's in size on average. And if it's the SNES one... well, that also makes sense, since you have to factor the added weight of stuff like the extras added by the other versions (anime cutscenes, extra dungeons, the encyclopedia, etc).

Unless you don't use the SNES one, in which case... well, I'd need to check up the actual sizes and stuff...

[Redline57]

If Megaman 3 is under 400 kilobites, Nesticle (early NES emulator) is 276 kilobites, youve got less than 1Meg. one of the Megaman 9 downloads on virtual was over 700Megs, same graphics. The heck is in that download? I get compatability but even with say using windows XP, the whole operating system isnt that big, I think steam interweaves entire movies with its downloads just to fill up internet space in the same way junk mail is the filler for the post office.

[Acacia Sgt]

For a game like Megaman 9, it's because they're using a modern engine to simulate the old NES one. That alone means the game will be much bigger than what a NES game is, because it's not only making the stuff up, is also adapting it to look like it belongs to a NES. So they're actually not the same graphics, they are adjusted to look like NES graphics, and that too adds space in order to make all of that work. Other stuff like the audio is the same deal. No compression either, most likely, since the game doesn't need to be in a NES cartridge of limited space.

Games today are more complex to make than before, even if it's just a port, since they need additional stuff in order to be compatible with what you're porting them over. Additional size is expected.

Also, 700MB? Where? Highest I found was on the XBox at around 100MB.

[Redline57]

Mighta been for the Wii, it was enormously huge. And I do know why lots of these games are huge. Cost. Its cheap/lazy programmers. I've met programmers who have showed me how you tack on rather than in the 80s (when you paid by the bit practically) everything was optimized. But you could pixel by pixel write a megaman game for far less than a quarter of the size, we used to write these games on ti-83+ calculators that were NES like, and I don't believe that with a modern console like the PS4 which has the power to run something like lightwave 3d (where you can make old console games in for fun) that its anywhere near this size, its 700x the size, thats mammoth. I think there's extra operating systems in there, because you could rewrite the game for less coding. Its basically "heres our 600Mb operating system and we clicked 'integrate' the ROM file and  rather than giving you a rom, to not want you to modify it, its intertwined with the program that wrote it. Come to think of it, that's probably why it was done, to have some shred of 'we tried to make it not so modifyable'

[Acacia Sgt]

Can't be the Wii one, it's like 17MB that one. You sure it was for Megaman 9?

Alternatively, are you sure the 700 were MB's? Stuff like the Wii displays things like file sizes in "blocks" rather than in X-bytes. Looking up, MM9 on Wii is like 600-700 BLOCKS big, not MB's big. That one is still ~17MB.

[Redline57]

does chrono trigger on steam have those 'achievements' that come on the newer consoles? Those popups that tell you how many guys you killed and stuff?

[Razig]

does chrono trigger on steam have those 'achievements' that come on the newer consoles? Those popups that tell you how many guys you killed and stuff?

Its achievements are for getting each ending.

[Redline57]

Steam is screwing this game like a dog that needs to be clipped. They've had "updates". IE those damned patches. Patches that slowly killed games like Half Life's 'Team Fortress Classic' to death, a bunch of whiny new nerds who sucks at games complained it was too hard. Hey, when I was a new gamer, if a game was hard, I just...got better by playing. That was it.

Sorry for this rant but its gotta be said. These patches are not paying homage, they are desecrating what I consider a great game. I find it parallel to the bitches who want anything 'confederate'  removed because it was during a time when America wasn't perfect. Oh my word, humans did something bad? Who knew. So how we've got 'patches'. I've seen em. This game was ported, IE like an emulator, through Steam (which I consider the worse virus on the net). But they changed the font to make it...maybe easier to read for the millenials? That's fine, but they're changing the words. Changing spells to try and link them to other modern games. This means in 10 years, the spells will have to be renamed AGAIN, as the original will always be the original but the newest version has to be constantly updated. This means if you talk to someone who's 8 or 9 playing the game, asks for help, the old guides or gamers like me won't be able to help you. Like how windows kept the words of the control panel programs the same for years, now they just reword and 'rebrand' the same shit and makes basic programmability of what is OLD ideas much, much harder. took me 5 minutes to change the background on windows 10, which I could do in 5 seconds on windows XP all the way back to windows 3.1. Same thing with Chrono Trigger, if you want advice, first we need to know what 'version' you're using. Its crap! If you're gonna update and have the original version, have the 'original version' stupid. Don't pull a Star Wars and digitally remove Obi-Wan from a 30 year old movie because Alec Guinness isn't alive to kick your ass. Stop screwing with the classics. If you want to make a new patch to make Chrono Trigger on Steam look like the original, it'd take all of ten seconds for me to email Steam my ROM file, problem freakin solved. Who are these morons that have to overengineer the crap out of everything? Road systems in America work too good so rather than add lanes, let's spend 100x the price to do a new set of rules that won't work as well. Just...leave well enough alone. SPend the money on advertizing. Hey guys, download Chrono Trigger, it was a good game, trust us!...and that's freakin it.

If you're going to updated it...redo the graphics. Go make Chrono Break. Otherwise you're Flames of Eternity, making hundreds of versions of what is Crimson Echoes...forever and ever.

Eat my taint, steam.

[CptOvaltine]

I just want to point out that Steam is a distribution client.  It doesn't actually create or issue patches to anything (except Valve games).  Square Enix is the one that put Chrono Trigger on Steam, they're also the ones that botched the port and then have been trying to patch it.  They're also responsible for the re-translation and "updates" to the game.

Unfortunately, gone is the good ol' Square from yesteryear. 

[Redline57]

Now I'm curious to see how direct their translations really are then. You know political correctness in America is at an all-time shitstorm high. So I wonder if the item is 'flea bra' or 'flea vest', and if they pulled Lucca's comments about Ayla. I'm also concerned about stuff like Secret of Mana where the cannon dudes who are black, married to the white woman, says his misses is upstairs and the wife says 'all my husband's friends look alike.' that was a subtle racist joke that made it through the censors because they werent watching video games that closely back then, but it was your mild 90s racism from japan, there was some more in other 90s games. but as new words become more 'offensive' to the media these days, does that mean every game will need a rerelease with newer translations? I saw the last patch to CT, and i saw spells from Crono like 'cleave' , don't remember that one. I'm worried they're gonna do like the DS version did and do retro-active shit, IE make new content as a tie in to Chrono Cross, so people wil try that game too. Or if they wanna make a new Chrono game, they'll patch CT and CC just to make em flow better for the sake of selling a few more copies to the new generation, they'll screw it up and piss off all us loyal fans. I've seen companies do this time and time again, with games and movies and just...suck it Square.

[Kodokami]

The Compendium does have scripts for both the original Chrono Trigger and the DS version. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that the Steam version uses the DS script, which is supposedly more a more accurate translation. That's not to say the original is wrong, just that Ted Woolsey took some creative liberties that we've all come to love.

Is there something wrong with Steam? I always found it strange that I needed a client to play most games on PC.

[Razig]

The Steam release of Chrono Trigger was originally just a bad port of the mobile version, complete with touchscreen buttons (which are an unfortunate necessity on mobile, but a terrible eyesore on PC). Speaking of eyesores, the game also had a "sprite smoothing" filter applied which not only looked terrible, it actually made the seams in the game's tiles more obvious (so much for smoothing). This release also lacked an "Extras" mode, just like the mobile version.

Predictably, there was a huge backlash among fans. The Steam reviews were overwhelmingly negative, and several gaming news sites covered what a catastrophe the whole thing was.

But surprisingly, Square actually stepped up and addressed the issues with patches. They removed the mobile interface and the graphics filter (although you can still turn them back on if you want, they're just no longer the default options) and added in an Extras mode like the Playstation and DS versions (although it doesn't have as many goodies as those versions).

Now that it's optimized for PC, the Steam version is the next-best thing to the DS version. It uses the DS translation, has the Lost Sanctum and Dimensional Vortex areas, and includes the new ending. It doesn't have the Arena of the Ages. All those are YMMV things, but the Steam version is now very much playable instead of being a frustrating mess.

I mostly prefer the original translation (although the new one does fix a few problems), but that's because the new one just seems dry to me. Like it was translated, but not localized. But as for your concerns—no, they haven't politically corrected anything. Flea Vest is now Flea Bustier. The meeting with Ayla is actually less censored:

Ayla: You strong too.
   Ayla respect strong people.
   Men and women.

Marle: Oh, brother...

Lucca: Where have they been
   keeping her?

Ayla: You strong, too.
Ayla like strong person.
Man, woman...both like!

Marle: Oh, dear...

Lucca: I...I don't... I mean, I'm not-!

This is one of the changes I like. Somehow I saw through the subtext even as a naive kid playing the SNES version, but I appreciate that the new translation brings it more into the open.

[Redline57]

The problem with Steam is the same thing with Google and Facebook: they're past their prime, waiting for the next best thing, no one really cares. Steam started out as...a secondary operating system that could hold your first player games hostage if your internet died. That's crappy programming. Assimilating your shit into steam will reduce performance, as a small platform its HUGE and could be replaced with a website or windows/linux's own controls as a small GUI (such as MS Tabworks from windows 3.1) . By my definition of 90s software, Steam is the same thing as MSN's AOL software on a store-bought PC - a borderline computer virus which is completely unneeded. They cannot officially tell you to download the emulator ROM but its still way better. The only SOFTWARE tweaks needed to make the old ROM better than steam's crap is a blur filter if you are playing CT on a TV over 70 inches - those scanline gaps and pixels can get 'sharpened' by the software in a smart TV, and so you want Snes9x or something's 'golden eagle' filter which sort of makes it display the way it was suppose to look on a tube TV. If you've ever tried playing a Playstation 1 game on an 80" screen with no blur filters, the pixels are so sharp you can't see what youre doing (examples are Legend of Legaia, Cyber Sled, FF7 to some degree, etc).


Now onto Chrono Trigger. The steam version has had 4 patches. This can only get worse. I for one have not played the DS version of CT, if i wanna boot it up tonight im playin on my 25" tube TV with the SNES cartridge. I heard about the DS version and feel its probably too retro-active for my taste. Like I bet the added stuff was modified originally to help it tie into chrono cross, in hopes they can get people to buy that too. (Personally i found CC to be the worst RPG i played on the PSX). It would be nice if I felt like there was an overseer for this steam release to tell steam 'no' on some things. Kato would be a good person in charge.

[Razig]

Now onto Chrono Trigger. The steam version has had 4 patches. This can only get worse.

Five, and they took the game from a nearly unplayable mess to a pretty good facsimile of what's widely considered to be the definitive version. So I'm not sure why you're saying the patches were bad. It's bad that clueless meddling made them necessary, certainly, but I'm just glad the game ended up getting fixed. That's much better than I was expecting from Square.

I for one have not played the DS version of CT, if i wanna boot it up tonight im playin on my 25" tube TV with the SNES cartridge.

Not everybody is lucky enough to have that setup, and not everybody is willing to mess with emulators (if they even know emulation exists). The Steam release makes Chrono Trigger accessible to more people, which can only be a good thing.

I heard about the DS version and feel its probably too retro-active for my taste. Like I bet the added stuff was modified originally to help it tie into chrono cross, in hopes they can get people to buy that too.

The DS version was released in 2008, so I'm not sure how many copies of Chrono Cross Square could really have expected to sell at that point, but the new ending is definitely an attempt to tie the games closer together. Other than that, the added content is mostly just new stuff to do in the Chrono world. The quality isn't quite up to par with the original content (mostly due to the bar being set so high, rather than the new stuff actually being bad), but it lets us have a few more adventures with our dear old friends, which I really appreciate.

(Personally i found CC to be the worst RPG i played on the PSX). It would be nice if I felt like there was an overseer for this steam release to tell steam 'no' on some things.

Steam had nothing to do with the release besides selling and distributing it. There was a team from Square in charge of the port.

Kato would be a good person in charge.

You realize Kato was the driving force behind Chrono Cross, right?