Author Topic: Re: Belthasar in El Nido  (Read 8461 times)

Lordchander

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2005, 01:31:45 am »
Quote from: Aura
Not only will we have two Belthasar's, but one of them will also know exactly how things turn out. Belthasar could come from the future to before the queen is corrupted by Lavos and tell her not to tap into Lavos' power, and then stay there as a sort of "prophet" Magus-style to direct the Queen from doing bad stuff


Yes, but he would wipe himself out of existence because that means the whole Ocean Palace event wouldn't happen. Unless he has TTI.

AuraTwilight

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2005, 03:03:55 am »
Like it matters? So what if one of the Belthasar's dissapears? That's why we have TWO!

Zaperking

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2005, 04:23:11 am »
Lol. But isn't TTI just another theory. I mean until it's proven, any Chrono Series discussion threads are pretty much just theories on any site lol.

Sir Frog

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2005, 04:37:41 am »
Quote from: Zaperking
Lol. But isn't TTI just another theory. I mean until it's proven, any Chrono Series discussion threads are pretty much just theories on any site lol.

Yes, it's a theory, and frankly it is quite sound.  There are only a few instances in the Chrono series in which the theory seemingly breaks down.  (Marle's disappearance comes to mind, as does the inexplicable continuity of the Entity's consciousness.)

Lordchander

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2005, 04:38:51 am »
I suppose almost every theory is wrong. But there is those few which are very reliable and can possibly work, and the TTI is very much one of those few. Yet it is something that SE failed to notice.

Lord J Esq

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2005, 06:31:15 am »
Quote from: Lordchander
I suppose almost every theory is wrong. But there is those few which are very reliable and can possibly work, and the TTI is very much one of those few. Yet it is something that SE failed to notice.

Time Travelers' Immunity is one of the better deductive theories here on the Compendium, but I am not persuaded as to its veracity. What qualifies a figure for Immunity?

Zaperking

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2005, 09:12:56 am »
Aha.

Personally, I kind of think that SE avoided the fact of TTI. It's almost as any theory that is made up is just a fans point of view. SE probably didn't even intend all these theories, and only intended everything stated in the game. Anything that was not stated is not true :P

Alot of theories break down, but stay strong only because of a few people's personal choices. Like the heavy debate on Time Bastard.

Lordchander

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2005, 06:53:29 am »
Quote from: Zaperking
Alot of theories break down, but stay strong only because of a few people's personal choices. Like the heavy debate on Time Bastard.


I do not belive in the Time Bastard theory personally, but it has has heavy thought about it and no doubt it still has some significance.

Quote from: Lord J
What qualifies a figure for Immunity?


I was pretty sure that it was someone who had time travelled lots and was somehow connected to the place between time travelling, therefore there bodies or themselves shall not be effected by the various paradoxes (like the grandfather paradox), therefore, they shall remain immune to all time activity. Dont quote me on this though, as I am not 100% sure (more like 80% what I said is right).

Zaperking

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2005, 07:53:59 am »
So if Marle did it with King Guardia in 600AD.... Would Marle still be born one day in the future...

Lordchander

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2005, 08:14:54 am »
Um, that isnt exactly how the TTI works, no she wont be born, but yet Marle that had it with King Guardia will still exist, though really she should have been thrown into the DBT, but because of the TTI....

Zaperking

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2005, 09:41:21 am »
What about TTI in Futurama. Fry goes back in time and stops his grandfather from doing it with his grandma. Instead Fry does it with his grandma and he still exists and so does his brother and father etc after that.

AuraTwilight

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2005, 01:10:05 pm »
Yes, but as a result, the genetic meltdown caused Fry to lack a delta brainwave, making him the idiot messiah to save the world from floating brains.

Shadow_Dragon

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2005, 03:37:14 pm »
Ok, a lot of other things (shows/books/movies, w/e) have different views on time traveling than CT does. For instance, in Back to the Future the main character (it's been a long time since I've seen it) has to try to avoid changing the past or parts of his body disappear (or so I remember), anyway, that's obviously different than CT.


I don't mean this as a flame to anybody, but all this "TTI works for people who have a strong connection to the time period.." or "Who get's TTI?" is crap (I didn't know how to put it more politely <_<). Anyone who travels back in time 'has' TTI. This is one of the reasons that I hate giving it a name, if you have something called Time-Traveler's Immunity, then you're going to want to know how someone can get this immunity. However, the truth is, at least in Chrono Trigger, that it's an innate law of time-travelling that traveling into the past and effecting things in the past won't make you disappear or anything. In CT it's impossible for something's existance in the past to affect its ability to exist. Essentially, when would it disappear?

Say I go back in time 20 years. I'm intent on killing my father so that I won't be born. If there were no such thing as TTI, when exactly would I go 'poof!'? Would I disappear once I kill my father? Would I disappear once I pick up the knife? Would I disappear once I get the intent to kill my father? Even if it's a minute before I kill him, he's going to die, and I'm not going to be born. But if I go 'poof!' then, then my existance won't be in question since I won't have killed my father.
This is hard to explain, but from the timeline's point of view my existance is no less in question after I kill him then it is once I appear 20 years in the past.
This is all in theory, of course. I <3 my dad, and I don't have a time machine that can take me 20 years into the past, in case you didn't know.

Lordchander

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2005, 04:44:42 am »
I understand what your saying ShadowD. That used to be my POV of time travel and paradoxes. But in the Chronoworld, things dont happen till they happen. So in your example, for you to disappear you have to actually have the killing blow like in his kneck before you would actually casue the paradox to come into play and for you to disappear. Your example is how I would place REAL-LIFE time travel as like, but then again, we can never be sure until we try it can we?  :wink:

Sir Frog

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Re: Belthasar in El Nido
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2005, 04:54:21 am »
Actually, I completely agree with Shadow Dragon.  Indeed, he seems to be the only person I have encountered here so far who truly understands what a timeline is.  As for your comments, Lordchander, I do not believe that "in the Chronoworld, things [don't] happen till they happen." The only part of the game that I can think of that is consistent with your view is the Marle disappearance...but we've already brushed that paradox (and truly it is a paradox) under the rug.