Chrono's Spiritual Successor

[CptOvaltine]

Personally I love orchestral.... great feel and depth to many genres of gameplay.

I am generally a spriter/mapper and idea man - composing was not my forte. I do however need a basis to create these upon - can't do them from scratch.

Now how big of a project are we talk here? Since we all seem to be burdened with life and jobs, etc. Should we limit the size of this to something a bit smaller?

I think Boo is spot on.  We should work towards releasing a concept demo, and maybe a video explaining the project a little and then see who bites.  If there is a generally positive response I think it would be worth exploring some funding ideas, and actually see if we can develop a commercial product out of this.

Regarding a concept:

Boo and I have talked extensively about this concept.  I personally think it has a lot of potential to be developed into a great game, so it has my endorsement, for what it's worth. 

That being said, if the someone isn't feeling it, this is by no means final. Please feel free to pitch any other ideas.

[Acacia Sgt]

Personally, one idea I've come to like is a theme of Time Policing/Terrorism. As in, sometime in the far future time travel is actually something if not mass accesible, it is mass known. Thus, regulations and restrictions are made for the sake of the temporal continuation of the time line... then enter the discontent people who want time travel to be much less restrictive, with some are in it for causing havoc. Then actual havoc happens.

Okay, I took it from Star Trek, but it's not a bad idea per se to give it its own take on the matter.

Wish I could remember that old idea I had for a Chrono interquel between Trigger and Cross. To see if it could've used as its own thing instead. Ah well...

See if you can dig it up in the next little while.

Well, I don't really have much hopes on that. It's been years, so I barely remember anything from it. While I did had a file with the info I made, the computer it was on was stolen. So it's out of my reach.

[CptOvaltine]

Personally, one idea I've come to like is a theme of Time Policing/Terrorism. As in, sometime in the far future time travel is actually something if not mass accesible, it is mass known. Thus, regulations and restrictions are made for the sake of the temporal continuation of the time line... then enter the discontent people who want time travel to be much less restrictive, with some are in it for causing havoc. Then actual havoc happens.

Okay, I took it from Star Trek, but it's not a bad idea per se to give it its own take on the matter.

Wish I could remember that old idea I had for a Chrono interquel between Trigger and Cross. To see if it could've used as its own thing instead. Ah well...

See if you can dig it up in the next little while.

Well, I don't really have much hopes on that. It's been years, so I barely remember anything from it. While I did had a file with the info I made, the computer it was on was stolen. So it's out of my reach.

That's an interesting concept.  I'm not sure it was ever used will in Enterprise, it often contradicted itself and is plagued with the usual "it's already happened, so why didn't they just return to the moment it happened and correct it" fiasco.

I would be carious about how you would flesh out that concept?  What is the story arch?  Is the player the time terrorist, or the one policing it?

[Acacia Sgt]

That's an interesting concept.  I'm not sure it was ever used will in Enterprise, it often contradicted itself and is plagued with the usual "it's already happened, so why didn't they just return to the moment it happened and correct it" fiasco.

I would be carious about how you would flesh out that concept?  What is the story arch?  Is the player the time terrorist, or the one policing it?

Use will? By Enterprise you mean just that series or are you being more general about it?

Admitedly, I haven't really thought much beyond the general idea itself. Having the protagonist be on either side can work. Whether to stop time travelers from causing unwanted changes... to wanting a change that could even be objectically good, but the restrictions on time travel means you'd have to break the rules to change the time line for the better (imagine if Crono and company had to deal with a Time Police because, for all the good using time travel to get rid of Lavos would be, it's still meddling with the time line over what was a natural course of events). It has its potential.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

Use will? By Enterprise you mean just that series or are you being more general about it?

I think it was a typo and he meant to say "used well." The whole Temporal Cold War storyline from Enterprise showed promise, but I agree, it never truly delivered. Interestingly enough, an interview with the writers revealed that had the series continued, it would have revisited it (despite seemingly wrapping it up during the first two episodes of Season Four) and revealed that the mysterious benefactor was a future version of Captain Archer. That also caught my interest. Oh, and Shran was going to become a main cast member (!).

Regardless, the concept of time policing was a huge part of my Chrono Phase concept. That story followed a new protagonist who met with a new version of Balthasar in the ideal timeline (post Chrono Cross, in a version where Project Kid was no longer needed since Schala was already freed).

This version of Balthasar, discovering that previous iterations of himself played free and loose with changing and manipulating history, realized that he himself was a threat to space-time. He decided to invest his energies in creating a the Time Research Facility (which was the predecessor of Chronopolis in Chrono Cross), but rather than create Project Kid, he created the Chronoscope - a sort of observatory and telescope capable of seeing timeline incursions. He then acquired the Frozen Flame, same as in Chrono Cross, but instead of using it for the Counter-Time Experiment, he used it to shield his laboratory within a pocket dimension, rendering it immune from timeline changes.

Thus, Balthasar took silent vigil and became protector of space-time. He then recruited Robo and turned the FATE AI into an android called ADA (advanced deployable android of something like that). When a space-time phenomena was identified, Robo and ADA acted as his field agents. They also wore specialized "temporal anchors" that could pull them back to the Time Research Facility should things go awry, rendering them immune to timeline changes while on missions.

The heroes of this story encounter Robo when he investigates their accidental time gate, and they all get swept up in events, meet Balthasar, and join him in their efforts.

I don't know how, but perhaps some of this could be re-purposed to some degree?

[Razig]

That's an interesting concept.  I'm not sure it was ever used will in Enterprise, it often contradicted itself and is plagued with the usual "it's already happened, so why didn't they just return to the moment it happened and correct it" fiasco.

I think the problem with just going back and undoing things, is that your opponent can then do the same thing, then you go back and undo that, and so on...

Or your opponent could anticipate that you'll come back to fix anything he does, and use that to draw you into a trap.

I think that's why the situation on Enterprise was called the Temporal Cold War, because the belligerents didn't dare face each other directly. They worked through proxies instead.

[Acacia Sgt]

I think it was a typo and he meant to say "used well." The whole Temporal Cold War storyline from Enterprise showed promise, but I agree, it never truly delivered. Interestingly enough, an interview with the writers revealed that had the series continued, it would have revisited it (despite seemingly wrapping it up during the first two episodes of Season Four) and revealed that the mysterious benefactor was a future version of Captain Archer. That also caught my interest. Oh, and Shran was going to become a main cast member (!).

Ah, okay. 

Regarding the Temporal Cold War, the MMO does go into that (which is where I got the idea, I haven't really seen ENT). Daniels is even a recurring NPC during that arc, for obvious reasons.

I think the problem with just going back and undoing things, is that your opponent can then do the same thing, then you go back and undo that, and so on...

Or your opponent could anticipate that you'll come back to fix anything he does, and use that to draw you into a trap.

I think that's why the situation on Enterprise was called the Temporal Cold War, because the belligerents didn't dare face each other directly. They worked through proxies instead.

Haha, that's pretty much what happens in the MMO's version of the Battle of Procyon V. The Na'kuhl decide to crash the party, so the player(s) have to do the same. Once it's over, a temporal anomaly resets the battle (except everyone keeps their memories), so the Na'kuhl then bring the Krenim (from Voyager's Year of Hell) to help out. Then it happens agian, and now they also bring the Mirror Universe's Terran Empire into the fold as well.

Though, since it's still a game, that's the last of it, so once they're beaten a third time, the whole thing ends. Such a scenario works for a one-time thing, or minor arc, though.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

Regarding the Temporal Cold War, the MMO does go into that (which is where I got the idea, I haven't really seen ENT). Daniels is even a recurring NPC during that arc, for obvious reasons.

Did they ever explain who the mysterious benefactor was? Please tell me it was Archer. Oh, and the show also hinted that he was working with the Romulans, but we never got to see a season five to know how/why.

[Acacia Sgt]

Did they ever explain who the mysterious benefactor was? Please tell me it was Archer. Oh, and the show also hinted that he was working with the Romulans, but we never got to see a season five to know how/why.

No, I don't think they ever mention that guy.

[CptOvaltine]

It was a typo. Haha

Either way, I think its definitely an idea worth exploring. A big concern that jumps out at me is repetition. When dealing with time travel, (this is especially true in the Star Trek universe) we almost always end up with a time loop of some sort. Bravely Default explored this and it's pretty hit and miss with people.

Granted, we don't have to explore a time loop paradox, it's possible to develop the story (and temporal war) without experiencing a struggle over the same point in history. Just something to think about.

[alfadorredux]

I think the problem with just going back and undoing things, is that your opponent can then do the same thing, then you go back and undo that, and so on...

That's what the Blinovitch Limitation Effect is for. Not that anyone working on Enterprise is likely to have watched enough old Doctor Who to remember its existence. ;P

this universe would actually be governed by fatalistic time travel -- which means that attempts to change time end up only fulfilling events that occur. Think the 12 Monkeys movie, the first Terminator film, etc.

The reason I'm not sold on this is that the player may feel deprived of agency when they figure out what's happening. It works in movies because no one expects to be able to affect the outcome of a movie. Games are a bit different.

One fun act about this concept is that the villain is actually the hero from further in the timeline, but our hero isn't aware of the connection for some time.

That, on the other hand, strikes me as a good idea.

I'll have to read the detailed summary at some point when I hurt a little less.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

I'll have to read the detailed summary at some point when I hurt a little less.

Here's the light version with the villain.

About halfway through the game, or perhaps a little past halfway, the heroes have been using a fixed location to jump to different eras. Rather than gates that simply connect two eras, it's one fixed gate that can open to any predetermined gate.

Eventually the party realizes that the spatial anomaly will not allow them to visit any time they wish, so they decide to build a time machine so they can freely travel at will and stop the big bad once and for all. They build the time machine, but it malfunctions, and the hero is caught in the explosion. His consciousness is pulled from his body and absorbed into the spatial anomaly, and it is revealed that he literally becomes/became the time anomaly that the party has been using to time travel. He has been guiding his younger self to this moment.

His body, meanwhile, is left without a consciousness and is thrown into the far future, where it is an amnesiac and grows to become leader of an advanced society in that era. He gradually begins to gain flashes of memory.

Now, if you're still reading, here's the kicker...

When the main hero first meets the villain, the villain attacks the hero with fury, claiming it is out of revenge. The main hero is confused, as he has never met the villain before. This, in the hero's mind, paints the villain as just that - the villain.

Later in the story, in another era, the hero and villain run into each other again. This time, the hero strikes first as a precaution. The villain is completely off guard, revealing he has never met the hero before. This, in turn, causes the villain to believe our hero is a villain.

Thus, we realize that the two are both time travelers and their meetings are not aligned; their perspectives do not align. The first time, in the hero's timeline, he meets the villain is actually the second time they've met from the villain's timeline.

Makes sense?

[CptOvaltine]

I'll have to read the detailed summary at some point when I hurt a little less.

Here's the light version with the villain.

About halfway through the game, or perhaps a little past halfway, the heroes have been using a fixed location to jump to different eras. Rather than gates that simply connect two eras, it's one fixed gate that can open to any predetermined gate.

Eventually the party realizes that the spatial anomaly will not allow them to visit any time they wish, so they decide to build a time machine so they can freely travel at will and stop the big bad once and for all. They build the time machine, but it malfunctions, and the hero is caught in the explosion. His consciousness is pulled from his body and absorbed into the spatial anomaly, and it is revealed that he literally becomes/became the time anomaly that the party has been using to time travel. He has been guiding his younger self to this moment.

His body, meanwhile, is left without a consciousness and is thrown into the far future, where it is an amnesiac and grows to become leader of an advanced society in that era. He gradually begins to gain flashes of memory.

Now, if you're still reading, here's the kicker...

When the main hero first meets the villain, the villain attacks the hero with fury, claiming it is out of revenge. The main hero is confused, as he has never met the villain before. This, in the hero's mind, paints the villain as just that - the villain.

Later in the story, in another era, the hero and villain run into each other again. This time, the hero strikes first as a precaution. The villain is completely off guard, revealing he has never met the hero before. This, in turn, causes the villain to believe our hero is a villain.

Thus, we realize that the two are both time travelers and their meetings are not aligned; their perspectives do not align. The first time, in the hero's timeline, he meets the villain is actually the second time they've met from the villain's timeline.

Makes sense?

This is actually similar to the concept of Bioshock Infinite's villain, isn't it?

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

This is actually similar to the concept of Bioshock Infinite's villain, isn't it?

Never played it. Now I have to look it up. Fuuuuudge.

[CptOvaltine]

This is actually similar to the concept of Bioshock Infinite's villain, isn't it?

Never played it. Now I have to look it up. Fuuuuudge.

Not to spoil anything, but that game had some fantastic twists! Haha