Author Topic: Did Belthasar Plan Project Kid?  (Read 25253 times)

King Zeal

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Did Belthasar Plan Project Kid?
« Reply #105 on: September 08, 2005, 03:08:46 pm »
Apparently, it DIDN'T know anyway.  And besides, the Earth was no longer Lavos' (The Time Devourer's) target at that point.  All of reality was.

SilentMartyr

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Did Belthasar Plan Project Kid?
« Reply #106 on: September 08, 2005, 03:12:19 pm »
So... then the planet isn't the Entity because the Time Devourer isn't specifically targeting the planet anymore? :/

King Zeal

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« Reply #107 on: September 08, 2005, 03:18:23 pm »
No.  Because the Earth itself wasn't dying in specific.  The Earth, like everything on it, is bright and healthy thanks to the Chrono Trigger team.  The Entity, as Lucca and Marle theorize, is now "resting in peace" (aka dead).  Therefore, that makes it suspect that the Entity is, in fact, the Earth (or Planet).

SilentMartyr

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« Reply #108 on: September 08, 2005, 04:36:55 pm »
Wait, so now you do think the Entity is the planet? You are confusing me.

King Zeal

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« Reply #109 on: September 08, 2005, 04:42:30 pm »
No, I just don't believe that the notion of the Entity being the Earth is "fact", as V_T stated.  It's possible--but not a fact.

SilentMartyr

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« Reply #110 on: September 08, 2005, 04:46:35 pm »
Oh gotcha. It think that it is fact too, but that is something that is hard to argue.

AuraTwilight

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« Reply #111 on: September 08, 2005, 06:25:49 pm »
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Same thing. He can't do EITHER unless he predicts the situations in which these actions will be taken. Which again, brings us back to his amazing precognitive abilities.


Keep in mind that FATE could see into all dimensions, places, and times. Before giving FATE self-awareness, he could have used it to plan out Project Kid in it's entirety.

King Zeal

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« Reply #112 on: September 08, 2005, 06:49:09 pm »
Where in the story does it say that?  

And also, how in the hell would FATE help plan anything when Home World nor Another World even existed yet?  Seeing all existing timelines is one thing.  Seeing all-as-of-yet-uncreated timelines is just far-fetched.

Exodus

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« Reply #113 on: September 08, 2005, 08:02:23 pm »
You seem to think that FATE is limited to act like a modern day computer.

The difference is that it's from 2400 AD.

I doubt technology is really all that limited in capabilities.

AuraTwilight

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« Reply #114 on: September 08, 2005, 09:32:54 pm »
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Where in the story does it say that?

And also, how in the hell would FATE help plan anything when Home World nor Another World even existed yet? Seeing all existing timelines is one thing. Seeing all-as-of-yet-uncreated timelines is just far-fetched.  


Nowhere directly. But then again, the game leaves out alot of things you need to piece together with information already there. Thing is, where do you draw the line on which timelines exist when? Timeline creation, destruction, and splitting obviously doesn't work in linear time as we think it. Plus, Belthasar could have programmed FATE to do what it did.

King Zeal

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« Reply #115 on: September 08, 2005, 10:58:08 pm »
Quote from: Exodus
You seem to think that FATE is limited to act like a modern day computer.

The difference is that it's from 2400 AD.

I doubt technology is really all that limited in capabilities.


I'm not about to speculate on the theoretical powers of a supercomputer from a fictional story.  The fact of the matter is, the Chrono universe has no "modern day" equivalent, so I have no method of comparing or contrasting our technology versus theirs.  However, speculating make-believe powers in order to make a story work is just a tell-tale sign of lazy storytelling.  For example, you read a realistic crime drama, and then somewhere in the story, the main character suddenly picks up a bus and throws it across the street.  Then someone claims, "Oh, see, it's a fictional story so we don't know what the character can do!  The author never even said main character was born on Earth, so for all we know, he be Kryptonian and  have superpowers!"  Speculating is fine and dandy to certain limits.  But the problem is when you just stretch it too far.

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Nowhere directly. But then again, the game leaves out alot of things you need to piece together with information already there. Thing is, where do you draw the line on which timelines exist when? Timeline creation, destruction, and splitting obviously doesn't work in linear time as we think it. Plus, Belthasar could have programmed FATE to do what it did.


Linear time isn't the point.  Timelines are sequences of events, and the only way to foresee a timeline is to foresee an entire sequence of events.  You can't foresee a sequence of events for a situation that has not happened, which means, past the moment when FATE went through time, Belthasar's plan should have been COMPLETELY working in the dark.  Again, there was NO WAY he could have foreseen the involvement of Porre, Schala, Dinopolis AND the divergent history of humanity (let alone the actions of the Chrono Trigger cast within the new timeline).  There was nothing to base it on.  And if you start believing that he can foresee the action that EVERY LIVING BEING in three worlds (that don't even exist yet) over a 10,000 year period of time, then you might as well believe that he's God.  

Also, he could NOT have programmed FATE to do everything.  For example, what program could he give FATE for sealing up the Dragon Gods?  Elements, the Dragon Gods, and Terra Tower never existed in his own timeline.  This was done independently by the Earth itself and FATE reacted based on the situation at hand.  There was NO WAY Belthasar could have told it how to handle the situation.

Agent 12

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« Reply #116 on: September 08, 2005, 11:50:19 pm »
Yea,

The writer's have only told us that he is the guru of reason for arguably the most advanced people to ever live on Earth
Had access to records of the time he wanted change
Had Magical powers
Was head of the most advanced scientific community to ever exist
and he had access to a time machine so that he could do an infinite number of trial and errors

They really have given this guy quite a resume man...I know this is basically resaying what has already been stated but I'm not exactly sure what you want.  Is it hard to comprehend....yes but it really isn't completely impossible when you have all the resources he has.

And please stop arguing about Fate, You have no idea how the programming works but it is incredibly safe to assume that since he built it, it can be listed as an assett to his plan.

--jp

King Zeal

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« Reply #117 on: September 09, 2005, 12:01:02 am »
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The writer's have only told us that he is the guru of reason for arguably the most advanced people to ever live on Earth


And this makes him a very wise man.  However, I do not see how this gives him precognitive powers.

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Had access to records of the time he wanted change


It's not that he CHANGED time.  It's that he supposedly predicted what changes would result from those changes over 10,000 years within THREE dimensions.  

No records will tell you that.

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Had Magical powers


As said before, Magic is only a division of science in the Chrono world.

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Was head of the most advanced scientific community to ever exist
and he had access to a time machine so that he could do an infinite number of trial and errors


No, he couldn't.  You see, because it's stated in the story that, after he set events in motion, he traveled to Home World 1020 AD to see how things had turned out.  Let's assume he screwed up.  If he traveled forward again from this point, he would NOT be going back to the original timeline HE came from, but instead to the NEW timeline he created.  Which wouldn't accomplish SQUAT because there would be NO WAY to start the experiment all over again.

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They really have given this guy quite a resume man...I know this is basically resaying what has already been stated but I'm not exactly sure what you want. Is it hard to comprehend....yes but it really isn't completely impossible when you have all the resources he has.


What I'm saying is that none of the resources he has makes several parts of his plan workable.  

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And please stop arguing about Fate, You have no idea how the programming works but it is incredibly safe to assume that since he built it, it can be listed as an assett to his plan.


I didn't say it WASN'T an asset to his plan.  My argument is that it could NOT have been an asset to the degree that you claim, as several parts of Belthasar's plan had no way of being foreseen by him.

Agent 12

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« Reply #118 on: September 09, 2005, 12:19:15 am »
I apologize for exodus, Zeal you really have stayed relatively calm during all of this (I love ellipses too ha ha).  One of the best parts about Chrono Compendium is that you can state your opinoins without fear of being...sigh...flamed.  This may be wrong, but did Belthasar send back Fate first?  Because if he did then I Belthasar would certainly have PLENTY of data to make simulations and perfect his plan.  

--jp

King Zeal

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« Reply #119 on: September 09, 2005, 12:20:35 am »
No, FATE went 100 years after Belthasar had already made the trip to 1020 AD.