Did Belthasar Plan Project Kid?

[Sentenal]

Really?  600ad didn't radically change when Crono when to the Prehistoric era and changed things.  CT shows that time flow isn't as irratic as you think.

But, he really DIDN'T change anything in the Prehistoric era in Chrono Trigger.  Really, he was just sort of in the background as history played itself out.  And anyway, that's Chrono Trigger -- which takes far less strides to justify temporal mechanics.

What, now your discounting CHRONO TRIGGER?

[King Zeal]

What, now your discounting CHRONO TRIGGER?

Not at all.  I'm just stating that the two portrayed time travel in two different ways.

[Sentenal]

Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross are linked continuities; One is the sequel to the other!  If something works one way in CT, it should work the same way in CC.

[cupn00dles]

shewsh another little thaught following my reverie about the tesseract being home only to timelines inside the same dimension... if there is a Tesseract per dimension, then when the Dinopolis timeline "X" was pulled off the Dinopolis dimension to form a new hybrid timeline (that would be Keystone T-2) inside the original Crono, Serge and co's dimension by being fused with the Keystone T-1 timeline would a version of the Dinopolis timeline "X" be created inside the Dinopolis dimension version of the DBT, or would the same Dinopolis timeline "X" be splitten in 2 (pretty much like keystone t-2 was when kid saved serge) one going to the Dinopolis dimension DBT and the other goin' to Crono n' co's dimension, both being like 2 "mini-dimensions"(timelines) pretty much like Home n' Another inside the "big" original dimension, but instead of being parallel being perpendicular and in different realities? (i'm using concepts that timelines are like "mini-dimensions", a fraction of the "mother-reality/dimension", so Another is a "mini-dimension" inside crono n' co's reality/dimension, while Home is an anomaly "mini-dimension", limited by its own lack of past and with a unstable future which can be experienced at the dead sea and that runs parallel to Another inside crono n' co's reality/dimension)

Now if there was only one DBT for all dimensions, there would be a huge paradox, since by being pulled off its dimension, Dinopolis timeline"X" was eliminated from Dinopolis dimension, and then the Dinopolis timeline "X" would end up in the multi-dimensional Tesseract, but at the same time another (actually the same) Dinopolis timeline "X" would come to the Crono n' co's dimension and would be fused with the Keystone T-1 timeline when the time crash occured to form the Keystone T-2... In that case there'd be 2 Dinopolis timelines "X" existing together in a same dimensional reality in a determined point of space-time continua, and that'd be self-contradictory for Dinopolis timeline "X" would have been erased but wouldn't have either...

Something that one could quite conclude is... There are more "levels" of space-time reality than just the explicit "timelines" and "dimensions"... At least three one could identify: A "mother-dimension", reality itself which could be divided into many timelines, which by their turn could be divided once more into those "mini-dimensions", like Home and Another... and who knows how many more fractions could be created... o.o

sry, couldnt stop my blabbering :/ and i tried! tried hard! :0

[King Zeal]

Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross are linked continuities; One is the sequel to the other!  If something works one way in CT, it should work the same way in CC.

That's not exactly true.  Chrono Cross is dependent on Chrono Trigger to make its story work.  Chrono Trigger is not dependent on Chrono Cross in the same way.  

Now, I'm not saying they're not linked.  I'm saying that CT is the more self-contained of the two.  But, that's to be expected, considering that an example of a series with "self-contained" sequels are mostly stories like Final Fantasy.

[King Zeal]

Well, I certainly hope that anyone who actually sees faults in my logic or arguments will speak up and say so and then show me where the faultiness is..  Though I argue my opinions to the best of my ability, that doesn't mean that I don't accept the possibility that they can be wrong.

[V_Translanka]

Alright, I'm super pissed. I don't check the Compendium for 2, count em TWO, days and this blows up w/5-6 whole new pages...Reading through all that back-and-forth garbage was NOT how I wanted to spend the morning before my 21st b-day (but I did anyways because i'm a hapless loser w/nothing else to do )...I mean, geeze! I had to take friggin NOTES as I went along...And you (should) KNOW how I don't like notes...

Black Mage: What is this, some kinda study group of lame? Who takes notes? Seriously.

But anyways...onto my friggin notes...

1) When Lucca & Marle talk about the Entity being at rest, this does not mean that the Entity is dead. This has actually been discussed before...Notice how in CT it mentions how much the Planet's dreaming? Yeah, end game the Entity is at rest...coincidence? Yeah, it's sleeping, in a state of comfort and ease...not dead...it already died before and thanks to the creation of a few gates, it managed to save itself...ugh...Refer to #3

2) Einstein's theories on time travel only state that traveling into the future has any sort of a possibility.

3) King Zeal, I think it's about time we introduce you to Occam's razor...

4) King Zeal (and anybody who may be doing it), USE THE FRIGGIN EDIT BUTTON INSTEAD OF DOUBLE POSTING!!! This thread does NOT need to be that much larger, y'know?

5) AuraTwilight (and anybody who may be doing it), sticking up for people is cool 'n' all and I can respect that, but "The way you act, you're no better than he is." was quite the ironic statement...not to mention that that whole section of the thread is white noise bordering on spam that you should have just PMed Exodus about.

Oh yeah, and I love you all, my precious babies! And by that, I mean I hate you and I want to eat you like I'd like to eat babies! MMMmmmm...The veal of the human meatbag world...Uh, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! Er...I mean this part of this post...it's late...and I'm hungry!

[King Zeal]

Alright, I'm super pissed. I don't check the
1) When Lucca & Marle talk about the Entity being at rest, this does not mean that the Entity is dead. This has actually been discussed before...Notice how in CT it mentions how much the Planet's dreaming? Yeah, end game the Entity is at rest...coincidence? Yeah, it's sleeping, in a state of comfort and ease...not dead...it already died before and thanks to the creation of a few gates, it managed to save itself...ugh...Refer to #3

Actually, no, I don't remember CT mentioning the Planet dreaming that much.  But, as I said earlier, my memory is very sketchy at the moment.

Barring that, I definitely consider that theory possibility, but I don't see why the Entity being "dead" is not a valid possibility as well, especially since the entire concept of the Entity's motives was based on recall in the final moments of life.

2) Einstein's theories on time travel only state that traveling into the future has any sort of a possibility.

I know that.  But, my point is that it's a concept that has been theorized by several people.  Einstein being only one of them.  That was the only point I was trying to make.  I wasn't trying to say that Einstein's theory  was right.

3) King Zeal, I think it's about time we introduce you to Occam's razor...

Now that's a term I haven't heard since my freshman year in college.  I forgot what it meant until I looked it up on Wikipedia.  But actually, when it comes to story-writing, I try to use Occam's razor religiously.  

4) King Zeal (and anybody who may be doing it), USE THE FRIGGIN EDIT BUTTON INSTEAD OF DOUBLE POSTING!!! This thread does NOT need to be that much larger, y'know?

My bad.  I didn't know if this forum had a rule against it.

You can't try to indoctrinate someone because he is iconoclastic.

Were you speaking of myself or Exodus, ZeaLity?

[V_Translanka]

but I don't see why the Entity being "dead" is not a valid possibility as well

Well obviously because that would, as you said, make the Entity=the Planet not make sense

I know that. But, my point is that it's a concept that has been theorized by several people. Einstein being only one of them. That was the only point I was trying to make. I wasn't trying to say that Einstein's theory was right.

Okay, I didn't think so, I was, more or less, just stating it anyways then.

My bad. I didn't know if this forum had a rule against it (double posting).

I dunno if it's an actual rule or anything, but in threads that get this big, it's practically common courtesy.

[King Zeal]

Well obviously because that would, as you said, make the Entity=the Planet not make sense

Haha.  Yeah, I prefer that the Entity remains "ambiguous" myself, but I don't discount the other possibilities.

I dunno if it's an actual rule or anything, but in threads that get this big, it's practically common courtesy.

No problem, then.

[SilentMartyr]

Damn Resident Evil 4, I can't stop playing!

I haven't seen that ending in a long while, but it doesn't matter because that occurs after Belthasar gives them Epoch. We are debating whether or not Lucca created a device before Belthasar, not if she can.

Actually, my point WAS to prove that she could.  

Lucca did the same thing. BEFORE he did, in fact. This isn't really proof of pioneering brilliance (though, I do NOT deny that he IS brilliant) because of the fact that he simply took previously-existing scientific data and used it to make a new machine.

That line was what sparked my argument. So yes, you did.

[King Zeal]

The point I was trying to make was whether or not time-travel had already been an established phenomenon before Belthasar built the Epoch.  And yes, it was.  Even if Lucca built the second time machine (in the ending) AFTER gaining the Epoch from Belthasar, the Belthasar I'm arguing against (in the new future) is the one who built the Neo Epoch.  He wouldn't remember building the first Epoch at all.  However, the fact that it's called the "Neo" Epoch indicates that he was aware that the technology existed previously.

[Sentenal]

Its because he began work of his Wings of Time in Zeal...

[King Zeal]

Right.  But the time-travel element obviously hadn't been finished yet.

[Sentenal]

We don't know what he had finished at that point.