Did Belthasar Plan Project Kid?

[Zaperking]

.........................

As Schala fell through the time gate in this condition, she heard your crying echoing through time....

Like I said.... Anyway, I think that script must have been jumbled. Lucca keeps talking from one thing to another.
Also, even CT is untrustworthy. In CC it says that the Guru's were sucked into a dimensional vortex and appear in their time zones. So theres alot of word confusion. But im pretty sure the time thing by Lucca is right.

Just imagine Schala standing at the top of a long tube. She jumps into it, and as she is falling, time is passing forward. Somewhere in the middle, she hears the cries of Serge and puts her arms against the tubes sides and slows herself falling and then uses her powers to break a hole in the tube and the magnetic storm happens.

Also, You do know that Lavos still pretty much sucked up 64,970,000 years of the Planets energy?

[Chrono'99]

▬ How was Porre able to overthrow Guardia, in the span of just twenty years?

From CT to CC, there isn't a span of twenty years but really a span of ten thousands and twenty years (1,000 AD to 2,400 AD, then Time Crash, then 7,600 BC to 1,020 AD).

[Zaperking]

Well, since Porre only went to El Nido in around 900AD, I think FATE did a horrible job. FATE is supposed to keep people from going back to the mainland. But if Porre got it's power from the elements or whatever, then FATE must have let them go. Either because Porre runs the central regime later... but that would mean that Porre takes over Guardia anyway. It's only 5 years from 1000-1005. And then everything happens normally till 2400AD when the crash happens, and then more shit happens.

[Sentenal]

Okay, lets get started:

▬ Who or what, exactly, is the "Entity" that supposedly held sway over and manipulated just about all the events that took place in the Chrono world?

Not a plot hole.  Just to let you know where I'm coming from, here it is.  Zeality remarked you said CC was full of plot holes, and asked you to post them.  You said okay, and then posted these.  Us not knowing who the Entity is is NOT a plot hole.  A plot hole is something unexplained that contradicts another, explained part of a series or plot.

Most agree it's the Planet.

▬ How was Porre able to overthrow Guardia, in the span of just twenty years?

Kato said that Porre's rise to power was the result of some outside influence.  Plus what Chrono'99 said.  Plus, not a plot hole, its just something unexplained.

▬ Kid's oh so special and magical pendant, turns out to be not so special, much less magical. It's supposed to keep Kid from being a victim of lethal injuries or any sort of life-threatening danger by taking her back in time to a safer point in time. Yet it doesn't, ever; not even as much as a little nudge or a spark or anything. She falls off a cliff, get's poisoned, stabbed and apparently brain-washed, and then falls comatose after trying to handle the Frozen Flame.

So really, what the hell was the point of saying it had such powers?

It rewinds time after something bad happens.  You remmber Kid getting stabbed, and "dieing", yet being alive later in the game, not remmbering getting stabbed?  Yeah.  Not a plot hole.

▬ Why on earth did FATE --Lynx, Dark Serge, or however else you wish to call it-- try to drown and thus kill Serge, the arbiter and its only key to reach the Frozen Flame, in 1010 A.D.? It makes absolutely NO sense, and NOTHING is said anywhere which would even attempt to explain such a moronic and contradicting move by FATE.

Eh, not too sure on this one myself.

▬ How in the blue hell did the Earth deity pull back in time a civilization of Reptites (see, Dinopolis) from a dimension that didn’t even exist, as a countermeasure against Chronopolis? Go Earth and its half-assed omnipotence.

It DID exist.  In another dimension, where Lavos did not fall, and the Reptites won out.  Plus what V_T and Aura said.

Most of these are not plot holes.

[ZeaLitY]

Yeah, I agree with Sentenal's definition of plot holes as well. This is often the case with people who purport to have some; they turn out just to be the unexplained stuff, like the Fall of Guardia -- Kato remarked that it's a story for "another time" (Chrono Break?).

The issue with Serge was addressed in the Dead Sea discussions, but somehow didn't make it into the article (I'll have to fix that). The thread is at http://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=141

And the conclusions are here:

Dead Sea/FATE Discussion on an AIM Chat #1
GrayLensman, Aitrus, ZeaLitY, Ybrik Metaknight, Radical Dreamer, JustinS1985, Drumguy074

I. Is Serge targeted by FATE due to his obstruction to the Flame or suggested apocalypse caused somehow in the future by his existence?

A. Arbiter Dilemma

'FATE desires to have Serge killed for the express purpose of regaining access to the Frozen Flame.'

Ten years ago, it was Lynx who tried to kill you at this beach. After Prometheus broke the link between FATE and the Flame, FATE tried to eliminate any obstacle that stood in its way!

This possibly alludes to Serge as being such an obstacle, and also explains why he was not targeted earlier by FATE; only after he was designated Arbiter was death sought.

i. Would his death allow access once more to the Flame or prove it harder to be obtained, considering the Arbiter is dead and unable to produce vital signs?

a. Allow access once more

If Arbiter status is granted at death, FATE's motive for killing Serge would be simple and understandable, and also have the effect of allowing Chronopolis to continue existing normally until the future. This would have the interesting effect of allowing Belthasar to restart the Time Crash, and give Serge a second chance at things; perhaps this was a backup to Project Kid. Though the Flame being denied to FATE might be a prerequisite for Serge to complete his mission, if he should die, regaining control of the Flame would serve as a backup plan.

b. Deny access altogether

In light of a, this seems somewhat unlikely, though it is suggested heavily that one must be alive to access the Flame-

Scanner: Analyzing... Please stand by. .........Analysis complete. Fingerprints, retina, and C class DNA all clear. Data discrepancy due to aging within permissible range. 96% confirmation that this individual is the last registered arbiter. Access granted. Welcome back, Chrono Trigger.

B. Future Destruction Prevention

'FATE desires to have Serge killed in order to prevent the situation seen in the Dead Sea.'

This is negated somewhat by the apparent lack of interest in Serge in his early life. Support for this theory is limited because of this.

[Sentenal]

I have a question now:

FATE still didn't have access to the Flame after he killed Serge.  This is because Serge is still alive in on world.  Why would that matter in Another?

[ZeaLitY]

I think because there's only one Darkness Beyond Time, and thus one Time Devourer you can contact.

[Shadow_Dragon]

About Porre overthrowing Guardia and FATE letting Porre make such a change:
As a couple people said, the 1000AD in CC isn't the same 1000AD as in CT. Also, everything from 65,000,000BC and onwards is a bit different than it was before the time crash, since the time crash influences Crono and co. and they influence 65,000,000 and other time periods.

Also, if FATE decided to just capture the Porre people that came to explore and not let them leave, that would probably have just as much of an effect as letting them gain power through elements. Imagine half of Porre suddenly disappearing without explanation. The only way that FATE could possibly limit changes would be for it to have brainwashed all the settlers that came and made them think that they found empty ocean, but I doubt that they wandered into Chronopolis (was the sea of eden closed off at that time) or that FATE could send brainwashing things to meet them without even bigger changes.


I don't think the game actually says anything specifically about Lynx's killing Serge, so I've always just took it to mean that Wazuki was just going crazy and killed whatever was closest to him (maybe he was playing with Serge on the beach, went crazy, and just killed him) or he specifically targeted Serge because he loved him the most. This, however, wasn't a coincidence and Belthasar probably 'planned' for Wazuki to be the one to become Lynx because that would cause the dimensions to split. Also, maybe FATE was aware that doing this would cause the dimensions to split, and wanted two frozen flames or something.

Also, does the game say that FATE's goal is to ensure its being built in the future? Unless I missed something, its only goal was to ensure that Lavos gets defeated, and even trying to make itself built in the future would be a stupid thing to plan for since it's not like Chronopolis would just evaporate because it was 'never' built.



Finally, onto Kid's pendant. I actually think that the pendant is a major plothole. How exactly does rewinding time help? If it worked like the dagger of time (Prince of Persia: the Sands of Time), then it would make sense; Kid would see herself about to get killed, rewind time, and, knowing the future, prevent it. However, it doesn't, apparently. If it only rewinds time after Kid dies, and she has no recollection of it, how does rewinding time actually change time to ensure her survival? It just seems to me that Kid would get killed, rewind time, get killed again, rewind time, etc. If I'm missing something, please fill me in.

[Zaperking]

The pendant pretty much sends Kid back to a time before she gets killed. My theory says she stays in a pocket dimension. Then when shes back at the moment when she dies, she appears there and basically continues on, but hasn't been stabbed yet.

[Shadow_Dragon]

So, then, what happens? Lynx stabs Kid. Pendant rewinds time. Kid stays in a pocket dimension, and comes out the moment after Lynx killed her originally. Is that what you're saying? That makes a bit more sense (I always figured that it worked like the prince's dagger where it just goes back in time, giving the prince memories of the future, rather than also creating a future body, if that makes sense), but in that way it makes sense a bit more because there's still a body that gets killed.. Anyway, so Kid falls to the ground, dies, and then another Kid just pops up out of a pocket dimension? Still seems a bit far-fetched

[Legend of the Past]

No, it's more like Kid dies, and a copy of her is sent to a Pocket Dimension. Then the two Kid's get switched back. This is one of the parts which are just badly explained about Kid's handful of mysteries.

[Shadow_Dragon]

Yeah, so that makes sense.. But I feel like it wasn't poorly explained, but that it was just overlooked and they could just explain how Kid survived all those times by 'rewinding time'

[Exodus]

I was always under the impression that it only affected her body.

I always saw it like this:

Kid is stabbed. Pendant rewinds time on Kid's body to a time where she is not wounded. Nobody seems to notice.

[Kazuki]

Kind of strange not to notice that somebody who was dying get up and be completely fine  .

[Sentenal]

Ten years ago, it was Lynx who tried to kill you at this beach. After Prometheus broke the link between FATE and the Flame, FATE tried to eliminate any obstacle that stood in its way!

Lynx killed Serge.