Magus is a wuss.

[Zenning]

Magus used to be my favorite character right out of Chrono Trigger.

This guy has some of the most powerful magic and techniques in the game, he's recognized in 600AD, of being quite a threat to the world with his power (even if he's not actually trying to destory the world), and the guy knows what he's doing. Why, he even managed to gain the respect of the Mystics, became their lord, and even got himself his own castle! Plus, the man's got style. Gothic style. And he rocks out like the grim reaper.

...

But when you get past all of that, Magus is, for lack of better, less-colloquial word, a "wuss."

Why did Magus do what he did?

Why did Magus try to summon Lavos in 600AD?

Why did Magus shove you out the door when you visited Zeal and just happened to drop into the Throne Room in 12000BC?

...

Magus had a personal vendetta with Lavos, and tried summoning him because he wanted to kill Lavos. But why did Magus want to kill Lavos? For the good of the world? No, because Lavos took away his mother and older sister from him.

As for Magus giving you the boot in Zeal when he was disguised as the Prophet, it was because he didn't want you interfering in his plans to stop Lavos. He didn't want you to come in and mess anything up. And why was that? Because he wanted to protect Schala.

...

And that's that!

Magus is a "wuss," because he's more or less just a lonely li'l boy stuck on his mother and his older sister.

He's like one of those biker types who, after you get past all of their black leather and their rough exterior, you find a heart tattoo labeled "Mom," or probably in Magus's case, "Schala."

Magus isn't THAT much of a badboy, and that is why I don't think Magus is that cool of a character anymore.

Your thoughts?

[Sentenal]

Magus was defininately NOT doing anything for Mommy.  Nothing ever implies that he care's for her.  Schala, on the other hand, he does care for.

But heres the thing:  Magus wasn't going after Lavos because of what he did to Mommy or sister.  He went after Lavos because of what he did to MAGUS.  Notice how Magus doesn't being his search for Schala untill after his score is settled.  Schala's whereabouts was just as uncertain to Magus when he first arrived at 600ad as at the end of the game.  He wanted revenge for having his life taken away.

And in Zeal, as the Prophet.  He kicked you out because he thought you would mess things up.  But mess things up to protect Schala?  No.  Mess things up in preventing him from getting another shot at Lavos.

[Kazuki]

I wouldn't take his personal vendetta lightly. Imagine if your childhood was ruined by this monstrous thing. While it does make him less of a "bad boy", it adds a layer of depth and emotion to his character that somebody looking for a good time wouldn't have. There are enough of those characters in CC.

[Zenning]

Magus was defininately NOT doing anything for Mommy.  Nothing ever implies that he care's for her.  Schala, on the other hand, he does care for.

But heres the thing:  Magus wasn't going after Lavos because of what he did to Mommy or sister.  He went after Lavos because of what he did to MAGUS.  Notice how Magus doesn't being his search for Schala untill after his score is settled.  Schala's whereabouts was just as uncertain to Magus when he first arrived at 600ad as at the end of the game.  He wanted revenge for having his life taken away.

And in Zeal, as the Prophet.  He kicked you out because he thought you would mess things up.  But mess things up to protect Schala?  No.  Mess things up in preventing him from getting another shot at Lavos.

Ahh, but see?

Why would he consider that Lavos ruined his life?

He WAS attached to SOMETHING.

It was either his kingdom, his family, or both.

He felt something taken away from him, namely security.

My point is, he's too sentimental to be a REAL badboy.

I wouldn't take his personal vendetta lightly. Imagine if your childhood was ruined by this monstrous thing. While it does make him less of a "bad boy", it adds a layer of depth and emotion to his character that somebody looking for a good time wouldn't have. There are enough of those characters in CC.

You said it quite nicely yourself. If anything, he's more of a martyr than a badboy.

(Quote and answer are colored in respect to each other).

[Hadriel]

Dude, everybody's attached to something.  I judge badassness not on how much of a stone-cold dick someone is, but on their ability to put you in a casket.

[Kazuki]

I find it a more admirable trait if they have a reason for joining up, like Magus's.

[Radical_Dreamer]

So he's a wuss because he becomes the most powerful wizard in all history for the sake of fighting a god, or because he does this to avenge his sister? I don't see where the word "wuss" enters the equation.

[Azarath]

Clingint to his sister does not make him a wuss. Sure, clinging to her when he was in danger would classify him as a wuss, but, did he ever do that? NO! He clings to the memory of his sister because he loves her. Loving someone does NOT make you a wuss. And Lavos screwed up his life by sending him to 600AD.

[Dario]

well, i fail to see how any of this makes magus a wuss.

[Kazuki]

It doesn't, really. It just means that he isn't a cold blooded bastard looking at Lavos as his next cheap thrill, so to speak. Having something to fight for is quite the opposite of a wuss, if you think about it.

[Sentenal]

He lost his home, security, all that stuff, thats true, but that doesn't discount the fact he wants to kill Lavos for his own personal revenge.  He wasn't fighting Lavos to avenge Schala.  He was fighting Lavos because he destroyed his everything.

[Zenning]

All of you pose very compelling arguments.

Problem is that, I interpret Magus/Janus as leaning and relying heavily on Schala, and it also seems that, proverbially speaking, that he feels like "the carpet has been pulled out from under him," when he finds out that he has lost her.

So, you believe that,

even if Schala hadn't been part of the equation (even if she hadn't existed at all),

Magus would've still had a personal vendetta against Lavos,

for you believe Schala was not the reason that Magus thought he had something that needed to be avenged?

[Opunaesala]

All of you pose very compelling arguments.

Problem is that, I interpret Magus/Janus as leaning and relying heavily on Schala, and it also seems that, proverbially speaking, that he feels like "the carpet has been pulled out from under him," when he finds out that he has lost her.

So, you believe that,

even if Schala hadn't been part of the equation (even if she hadn't existed at all),

Magus would've still had a personal vendetta against Lavos,

for you believe Schala was not the reason that Magus thought he had something that needed to be avenged?

No, like it was said, he wants revenge for the life that was stolen from him.  Finding his sister is #2 on the list because she actually cared about him, unlike someone else in his family.

None of this makes him a wuss.  It makes him a badass with something to fight for.(the best kind)

[Janus Zeal]

Magus... a wuss? Blasphemy!

Honestly, you have a weak argument. It is obvious that, while Schala is indeed important to Magus, she is no. 2 on his list.

Magus was not avenging Schala, he was avenging himself. He was pissed that Lavos destroyed his life so to speak, not because it destroyed his mother, sister, and Zeal. Forget about Magus' surroundings, they are inconsequential.

Aside from being the most powerful magic user in existance (storyline-wise anyway), he is the only playable character with a real reason for going after Lavos.

"None of this makes him a wuss. It makes him a badass with something to fight for.(the best kind)"

JZ

[Lord J Esq]

I think a lot of this debate turns on everyone’s particular definition of wuss. As I gather it, what Zenning is trying to say is that Lavos totally fucked up Magus’ life, and Magus was never able to get over that. It muddled Magus’ mind, you might say. I think the angle that Magus is a “wuss” because he was fond of his big sister is a bit of a stretch, but in all fairness it does fit into Zenning’s overall point. Janus was gated out along with the other Gurus, the Kingdom was going to hell in a handbasket, and Schala was miserable and in the thrall of Queen Zeal. That would have been Janus’ last knowledge of what happened to Zeal, other than the obvious fact that he arrived in a world where his entire nation did not exist, with nothing but the clothes on his back and his wits to protect him, presumably marooned forever in a foreign era. All of these may have simply demented the poor guy. And if you want to focus on the Schala angle, as Zenning does, there’s certainly no shortage of canonical support for that idea, in all three Chrono games.

However, most everyone else in this thread seems to be defining wuss in such a way as they find themselves in disagreement with the thought of applying that label to Magus. I’m seeing a lot of “Magus cared about something” and “he was dedicated and had a purpose” to provide logical support for the idea that he is not a wuss after all, in which case I would imply that the intended definition of wuss from this camp turns on a lack of conviction and sincerity. And of course Magus has plenty of both, so in this sense there’s no way he is a wuss.

What we have here, therefore, is a case where everyone is right. Once you guys understand that you’re using different definitions for the same word, I think most of the argument will evaporate.