Element Base Damages?

[hexhexhex]

https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Game_Mechanics.html

In the section on Element damage, I can't find ANYWHERE a list of values for the variable e.

Also, the tools to extract the data from the CD aren't anywhere I can find.

Where can I find the Base Damage Values for Elements in Chrono Cross?

[hexhexhex]

Also, is the variable f associated with elements? When is it not 20?

[Maximus]

I would like to know it too 

[Kodokami]

Here is the gamefaqs board where utunnels, the author of that page, compared his information to another author.

It looks like the variable e is the same as the variable AtkSpread in the gamefaqs equation. However, the Element List, located on page 2, that should have the information you're looking for, is a dead link now. I don't know if we have it hosted elsewhere.

I'm assuming the variable f for each Element was also located in that list.

EDIT: Actually, we have a Damage Multiplier variable listed here; however, only for Techs, not Elements. If we can gather the data again, I'd like to reorganize it all to be more uniform and easier to cross-check with utunnels Game Mechanics page.

EDIT 2: Whoops. Damage Multiplier is actually the variable atk, located under Weapon Based Tech Damage. It's unrelated to Element damage.

[hexhexhex]

I managed to find what I think is the Base Damage of most of the elements (attack elements Level 1 through 6 of each color)

Name   Level   +/-   Targets   Base Damage
AquaBeam   1   7   Single Foe   12
IceLance   2   6   Single Foe   15
AquaBall   3   5   Single Foe   20
IceBlast   4   4   Single Foe   28
Deluge   5   3   All Foes   30
Iceberg   6   2   All Foes   38
            
Name   Level   +/-   Targets   Base Damage
Fireball   1   7   Single Foe   12
MagmaBomb   2   6   All Foes   10
FirePillar   3   5   Single Foe   20
MagmaBurst   4   4   Single Foe   28
Inferno   5   3   All Foes   30
Volcano   6   2   All Foes   40
            
Name   Level   +/-   Targets   Base Damage
Bushwhacker   1   7   Single Foe   12
Aerosaucer   2   6   Single Foe   15
Bushbasher   3   5   Single Foe   20
Aeroblaster   4   4   Single Foe   28
Carnivore   5   3   All Foes   30
Tornado   6   2   All Foes   38
            
Name   Level   +/-   Targets   Base Damage
Uplift   1   7   Single Foe   12
ElectroJolt   2   6   Single Foe   15
Upheaval   3   5   Single Foe   20
ElectroBolt   4   4   Single Foe   28
Earthquake   5   3   All Foes   30
ThundaStorm   6   2   All Foes   40
            
Name   Level   +/-   Targets   Base Damage
PhotonRay   1   7   Single Foe   13
Meteorite   2   6   Single Foe   16
PhotonBeam   3   5   Single Foe   22
MeteorShower   4   4   All Foes   25
HolyLight   5   3   All Foes   32
UltraNova   6   2   All Foes   42
            
Name   Level   +/-   Targets   Base Damage
GravityBlow   1   7   Single Foe   13
HellSoul   2      Single Foe   
Gravitonne   3   5   All Foes   16
HellBound   4      Single Foe   
FreeFall   5   3   Single Foe   36
BlackHole   6   2   All Foes   44

[hexhexhex]

Also, it seems that HellSoul and HellBound are a 32% chance and a 64% chance respectively, but I haven't confirmed that. It's just that those numbers seem to reside in a data section for those elements that seems like it might correspond to status effects. I don't know exactly what's in those sections and haven't had time to keep investigating.


As for the variable f, I've got absolutely no clue still. I'd need to do an in-game data collection and try to fit it to the formula for each attack element. Not willing to do that anytime soon; too much work.

[Kodokami]

Wow, that's really interesting. I like being able to see the little differences between the colors and between single foe vs all foes attacks.

Would you be able to walk me through how you find the numbers?

[hexhexhex]

This link by Grobycftw had a lot of the groundwork laid out for me, I just made a human-readable table.
https://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/index.php?topic=12588.msg225023#msg225023

Unfortunately, they didn't aggregate the data in the format I have it. I popped my disc's image in a hex editor and I used those addresses and byte offsets to manually go to each element and check its damage bytes (bytes 9-10).

I then confirmed Grobycftw's findings for at least those damage bytes by plugging them into the formula and making sure the numbers were close enough to what I saw in game. Didn't do all that much testing, to be honest.

I really didn't even want things to come down to me manually fishing through a disk dump for those values if someone had already done that work because I expected it to be fairly tedious. I should have written a script for it, but I was already halfway through Green elements before I thought to.

[Maximus]

Interesting
As I though, Black Hole looks to be stronger element than their equivalents for same lvl.
Wonder how much stronger are Omegas, sadly theyre single target only.

[hexhexhex]

Interesting
As I though, Black Hole looks to be stronger element than their equivalents for same lvl.
Wonder how much stronger are Omegas, sadly theyre single target only.

Blackhole also has a special effect which outright kills White Element foes, not sure if it works on bosses, but I confirmed it on some junk mobs at one point.

[Grobycftw]

Hi Hexhex,
I just want to confirm your findinds, Indeed the data sheet I made was for Format 2352
you're probably working with format 2048 making the disk slightly smaller , so the offset are a bit off, I remember wanting to make the list for format 2048, its not hard just take a little bit of time to do,
You said you're not sure about the f variable ,

If we look at Aquabeam
                       "f"
01 01 00 00 80 80 01 00 0C 00 00 00 14 00 00 00
20 00 77 00 FF FF FF FF 00 00 00 00 20 00 00 20
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

the 6th Byte in element correspond to its Color
using this Table
Table 2:
80 = Blue
20 = Red
40 = Yellow
04 = Green
10 = Black
08 = White

and it works just looking at Iceberg for ex:
                       "f"
01 01 00 80 90 80 06 00 26 00 00 00 14 00 00 00
25 00 22 00 FF FF FF FF 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 80
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00


also I think Blackhole as a chance to 1 hit Kill any regular mobs (no boss or mini boss I think)
maybe its only white color foes but I think it apply to all of them!

If you have any other question let us know!

**Oh also have you notice that the Element data are spread on 2 Blocks
The first block is the Data that will be show in the in-game menu, like when you allocate your element to your characters. The Second block is the Data use in Battle, so you have to change Both if you want a clean hack!  Both Block will be identical ! Make sure you keep it that way when editing 

First Block start at
002694D4 (Aquabeam)  -Formart 2352-
or
~00‬21983B  (00219C7C not sure why its a tiny bit offset from my calcul)‬
 (Aquabeam)  -Formart 2048- (Please correct me If im wrong, I usually use 2352 format to work mainly,

the Second block start at
13BA00F4 (Aquabeam)  -Formart 2352-
or
~112D483B (112D4C7C) (Aquabeam)  -Formart 2048-

[hexhexhex]

Hi Hexhex,
I just want to confirm your findinds, Indeed the data sheet I made was for Format 2352
you're probably working with format 2048 making the disk slightly smaller , so the offset are a bit off, I remember wanting to make the list for format 2048, its not hard just take a little bit of time to do,

I'm not sure what the differences are between Format 2352 and Format 2048 are. My disk is SLUS-01041 if that's what determines the format. I don't remember what settings I used to make an image from my disk, but after that I just loaded it into a hex editor and started searching. My size on disk is 702 MB (737,005,568 bytes).

Now, when you say that I'm probably working with 2048, does that mean that the numbers above aren't the right ones associated with the elements' base damages? Or did I actually match them up correctly? If not, I don't mind going back through the disk with the right offsets and remaking the table for other people to use.

Also, when talking about the "f", I still can't really tell what you mean by your examples. "f" is supposed to be an attack or damage multiplier of sorts from the combat formulas. It's not really clear what that number is. We're talking about the "f" from here:https://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/Game_Mechanics.html

Also, thank you for taking the time to drop by. Glad you're still around.

[Grobycftw]

Ahh my bad, I wasn't sure what you wanted , you're looking to change the formula for damage
 is that it?
I think just changing that number and editing Magic Def on enemies should do the trick!
Cause yes you we're right about the "base" damage multiplier of the element you posted

like Aquabeam 12 (0C)
and Iceberg 38 (26)

And for the 2048 & 2352 format,
If you say your iso is about 707MB, then you're on 2352 format
you work mainly in hex just as I do, so try and find these value

00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 00 02 01 02
00 00 08 00 00 00 08 00

if you go 930(Hexa) offset further you'll see
00 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 00 02 02 02
00 00 08 00 00 00 08 00

those act as separators
and they are actually 130(Hexa) bytes long
heres a pic of the 1 separator

You can ignore those , don't edit them it will make your disc crash upon loading it.
It essentially does nothing different, I think the format 2352 works on most emulator as the 2048 format doesn't, but working in 2048 does have its advantage when editing specific thing! Altho I mainly work on 2352 format as I don't have to convert it back to 2352 before testing!
So yes offset will be different depending on you're format, also there could be some version of the game that offset might be a bit off (like japan and english version)! Oh and there's no other format then 2048 and 2352 that I know of

[glennxserge]

also I think Blackhole as a chance to 1 hit Kill any regular mobs (no boss or mini boss I think)
maybe its only white color foes but I think it apply to all of them!

Yes, this is correct.  I see the comment about 'white innate' pop up quite a bit, but actually black hole just has a chance to kill any standard enemy. 

The high bit of byte 0x18 of the element block is the 'instant death' effect.  And byte 0x0A is expressed as a percentage chance to hit.  You can see a couple examples linked below of Hellbound and Blackhole.  You can also test this yourself if you set the value of blackhole's 0x0A to 0x64 (100 decimal), it will always kill standard enemies, regardless of innate type.

Code: [Select]

HellBound
    00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F
  -------------------------------------------------
00| 01 01 00 00 80 10 04 02 00 00 28 00 00 00 00 00
10| 1A 00 00 00 FF FF FF FF 80 00 00 00 00 00 00 40
20| 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

BlackHole
00| 01 01 00 80 90 10 06 0F 2C 00 14 00 00 00 00 00
10| 09 00 22 00 FF FF FF FF 80 00 00 00 00 00 00 80
20| 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
The above indicates that HellBound has a whopping 40% chance to kill whereas BlackHole has 20% (which make sense since it hits all enemies).  I'm getting in the weeds here, but wanted to demystify the instant death behavior.

[Grobycftw]

Yaa it's pretty cool actually you can also put more then one debuff at the same time, also apply stats boost, I remember trying to make a full list of it.

------------------------------------------------
Stats Boost Element
------------------------------------------------
FF FF FF FF XX XX XX XX 00 01 00 00
List of Stats

40 00 00 00 = Att.
80 00 00 00 = Hit%
00 01 00 00 = Def
00 02 00 00 = Evd.
00 04 00 00 = M.Att.
00 08 00 00 = M.Def

ex : C0 00 00 00 = Att. + Hit%

------------------------------------------------
Debuff Status Element
------------------------------------------------
MagmaBurst
01 01 00 00(80 20 04 00)1C 00 32 00 14 00 00 00
2B 00 44 00 FF FF FF FF 00 00 10 00 00 00 00 40
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

If
80 20 04 00 => 00 calls a list for status
32 = 50% of 00 00 10 00 = Confused
01 00 00 00 = Poison
08 00 00 00 = Burns
10 00 00 00 = Sprain
20 00 00 00 = Flu

00 01 00 00 = Afraid
00 20 00 00 = Fatigued
00 40 00 00 = Asleep
00 00 02 00 = Darkness
00 00 10 00 = Confused
00 00 20 00 = Frozen
00 00 00 04 = Cursed
00 00 00 02 = Dizzy

If
80 20 04 02 => 02 calls another list of status?
32 = 50% of
80 00 00 00 = Curse+Darkness+1hit kill?
20 00 00 00 = Curse or Darkness?
01 00 00 00 = Poison or Darkness?