Author Topic: Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped  (Read 10114 times)

Zenning

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2005, 02:28:19 am »
Quote from: Sir Frog
Quote from: Sentenal
First, there was the whole thing about Marle disappearing, because Leene died (which she did.  damn plot hole).  Secondly...  Well, here's the text:
Quote
Chancellor: Prepare yourself, Queen Leene

This is what Yarka, as the Chancellor, says when Crono and co enter the room.  It STRONGLY implies that he was about to kill her.


There is, however, a plot hole involved.  Assuming for the sake of argument that for some reason Marle did not have TTI, there would still be no reason for her to disappear simply because the search for Leene was called off and it became probable that Leene would die.  It's been said before and I'll say it again:  the first 600 A.D. adventure is totally inconsistent with the rest of the series, at least insofar as time travel and its effects are concerned.


Plot hole? Inconsistent with the rest of the series? Time Travelers' Immunity? Please do elaborate!

V_Translanka

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2005, 03:35:37 am »
Basically Zenning, based on the rules of time travel we view later on in the series, Marle shouldn't have dissappeared.

I always kind of thought of the Chancellor as being the Mystic's "inside agent" (basically their spy) and that he basically did w/e he could from within the castle, including the capture of the Queen...So, while it could have been a direct command from Magus (or one of his generals), I think that it's possible that Yakra acted on his own...or maybe Yakra was another of Magus' generals...or w/e's under 'general'?

Zaperking

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2005, 06:15:41 am »
Personally, I think Yakra just wanted to take over the Guardia throne, even though he worshiped Magus like all the other mystics did. Yakra XXXI wanted to frame King Guardia so the Guardia line would end and Yakra would become the new king.

fxar99

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2005, 05:55:19 pm »
Hmmm... We know that the story of the series isn't perfect, is it?

I think Masato Kato had, at first, an evil wizard in mind for Magus. I think that it was later that he decided that Magus wanted to destroy Lavos.

There's no other real, logical explanation. Magus' army could defeat the army of Guardia even without killing Leene. This wasn't required.

AuraTwilight

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2005, 06:34:24 pm »
It wasn't required, but it was a genius strategy. Look how disoriented the king was. His army was at a standstill looking for the Queen, leaving the castle with minimal protection. It was sheer genius. As for Marle....yea, the Entity still did it. I thought that even BEFORE I came here.

Zaperking

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2005, 04:31:51 am »
That's an excuse to fix the plot hole so that other theories work.

I truely think that Leene was lost for to long and time thought that she won't be rescued because time was changed and Frog didn't find Leene fast enough because they found Marle.

And if it was the entity, sending Marle to the DBT isn't a smart place. She could have been erased forever.

V_Translanka

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2005, 07:19:56 am »
I don't see it as 'simply' a cop-out, as you've stated...I mean, it's the most logical explaination. Occam's razor 'n' all...

If you think it was because Leene was lost for so long, then Crono & Lucca shouldn't have been there...and since when do the effects of time act so slow? I was under the impression that pretty much everything would happen instantaneously...

And as we see, obviously she isn't erased forever.

Zaperking

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2005, 08:51:57 am »
She could have. If there really is no grandfather paradox, then the entity should have just left Marle like everyone else has TTI, and so should have she. But nooo. There is a reason why she dissapears, and the idea of a grandfather paradox may have simply been forgotten later, but that's not the point.

V_Translanka

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2005, 12:21:32 pm »
Yeah, but since there is no grandfather paradox, the Entity has to step in to further Crono's quest. Otherwise they just gather her up and go back home.

SilentMartyr

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2005, 04:12:15 pm »
It is so fun explaining this, I just love doing it everytime.

The Entity took Marle away so that the adventure could start. If Crono and Lucca had never met Frog they wouldn't had been able to progress at all in getting to Magus. Without Frog they wouldn't have been able to get to Magus's castle because of the magic cave.

The Entity is not a "cop out", it is as much a part of the game as any of the other characters.

Zenning

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2005, 04:50:16 pm »
So, we all agree that The Entity was responsible for Marle's disappearance?

Sir Frog

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2005, 04:52:12 pm »
Quote from: Zenning
So, we all agree that The Entity was responsible for Marle's disappearance?

I sure as hell don't!

EDIT: I am off to work now, but I have an argument outlined in my mind.  I'll post it later.   I also have an alternative solution...sort of.  Furthermore, my argument will show that several of the "axioms" aren't always true.  (I'm pretty sure Sentenal will get a kick out of this.)

SilentMartyr

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2005, 04:54:23 pm »
No saying it is a paradox is a much better explination. :roll:

Sir Frog

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2005, 05:00:07 pm »
Quote from: SilentMartyr
No saying it is a paradox is a much better explination. :roll:

I never said the situation was a paradox.  (Or at least I never intended to convey that!) The only thing that is a paradox in the matter at hand is Lucca's explanation...but everyone here seems to agree that Lucca was incorrect.

Anyway, see my above post.  It's been edited.

Zenning

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Chrono Trigger: Queen Leene Kidnapped
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2005, 05:04:07 pm »
I believe Lucca's explanation is the unbridled truth.

Both saying The Entity did it, or that it was a paradox, both seem unfeasible.

I've already given my thoughts as to why I don't think The Entity didn't have a hand in it, I can't imagine why it'd be a paradox, and I can't imagine why Lucca's explanation would not be in accordance with the rest of the plot.