Crimson Echoes Plus

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

You know, I've seen a lot of talk on Reddit over the past few years about Crimson Echoes vs Flames of Eternity. I'm curious if there'd be any interest in taking the Crimson Echoes beta that leaked and giving it some 2021 polish (QoL). Or we could take Flames of Eternity and work backwards/forwards from there?

Maybe Agent12 and some of the others would be interested in coming back for a little hacking fun, or perhaps not. Plus, now we have a plethora of Mauron's TF addons that weren't available 10+ years ago.

A few ideas:
1.) New techs as originally intended.
2.) Triple techs for Magus!
3.) Human Glenn replacing Frog (or perhaps even an event or quest to show him turning back)
4.) Overall combat balance (let's face it, vanilla Crimson Echoes was hard)
5.) A world map for the Reptite Dimension! (especially now that we can have more than 7 overworld maps)
6.) Some new, enhanced tilesets -- perhaps some new, non-ruined 2300ad tiles for Chronopolis, for example?
7.) New and/or expanded events (I know I always hated the first few chapters of the game; they felt rushed and convoluted, so perhaps we can reshape them a bit to make them flow better?)
8.) Perhaps a new file NG+ ending (a la Chrono Trigger DS' Dream Devourer ending) that closes the door on Crimson Echoes and the legacy of King Zeal? Not sure how feasible this would be technically, but worth throwing out there.
9.) Eighth character patch included with an eighth character? (another long shot, but worth a mention).

Curious to see other's thoughts.

Anyway, just a few ideas I've had buzzing about my head. I feel like a full-length new-story hack is out of the question nowadays, and this could really create buzz and overshadow Flames of Eternity.

[IHBP]

I like the idea. I've been shamelessly promoting my hack for the last few years and haven't heard a peep from SE so I'm guessing they don't care any more.

Since all of FoE's assets are borrowed from here I see no reason not to use their finished version and simply restore the aspects of CE to it that you want then go from there.

[TheMage]

Oooo, very interesting. I know originally they were going to replace Ayla with Schala. I can replace Ayla with Schala, but that'd take some rewriting. Could also place Sorrin's graphics in, and other stuff that didn't make it.  (I didnt play FOE so i'm not sure if Sorrin made it into that or not).

[Mauron]

I like this.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

I'm tempted to tweak the human Glenn sprite to make his hair spiky instead of long and flow-y.

Anyone know why made that creative decision?

[Vehek]

I said it already in the Chrono Vendian thread: the sheet is an extension of a spriteset already in the ROM. I checked The Glenn Thread where the additional sprites were originally developed, and it didn't look like the subject of the discrepancy between his original sprite depiction and the PS1 anime cutscene ever came up.

[IHBP]

If you want you can use my RC7 version of FoE. It has a couple of bugs and oddities fixed and I added my own graphics to give Magus a beard. (Since he'd been searching for Schala for 5 years)

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

So I've been giving this a lot of thought and I am 100% committed to seeing this through.

I think Crimson Echoes is the best bet at giving the Chrono series another story entry, and any current or future hacks are ages away, assuming we ever even get another full-story hack*.

Plus, in the decade plus since the leak, we have matured as creators and have a plethora of new tools that weren't available in 2005-2010. Additional polish, plus expansions to the base game, could really do wonders for the Chrono fandom.

Here's the thing: I think we should do this only if we get the unanimous blessing from the original director team of Zeality, Agent12, and Chrono99. I don't want to proceed without them giving the go ahead, especially with the previous legal threats hanging over their heads during the C&D era. I want this to be done right and with respects to the original authors.

Also, @IHBP, would you be willing to either email me your ROM, attach it here, or send it to me via Discord? I can share me details if you don't already have them. I love the Magus with a beard idea!

* * * * * * * * * * *

Here's a tentative breakdown of how I envision this proceeding:

Phase 1:
Replays of CE and FoE using both the final build of Crimson Echoes and the RC7+IHBP build of Flames of Eternity. This will include detailed note-taking to note both differences in builds, potential reversals of FoE changes to back to CE, and musings on where additional content/fixes/enhancements can occur.

Phase 2:
In tandem with Phase 1, brainstorming and documentation for what is realistic to change or add. This may require technical research into the ROM data and currently available tools, as we need to be realistic about what can be done with what we have (including data limitations). We may also possibly crowd source ideas or 'what would you like to see' for community engagement, within reason (since fandom is rarely within reason when opening it up to feedback like that, haha).

Phase 3:
Building of said "Plus" enhancements and additions. May happen in tandem with Phase 2.

Phase 4:
End-to-end testing.

Phase 5:
Release without warning or fanfare to ensure a successful launch.

*Excludes expansions for base Chrono Trigger, such as Chrono Trigger Plus,Master Quest, Schala Edition, etc.

[IHBP]

Sure I'll hook you up soon as I get a chance

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

Does anyone happen to have a copy of Flame of Eternity's RC-4 release?

It was released back on July 12th, 2011.

I can't seem to download it. The file name was FoE2011-06-29.smc but I don't have and can't seem to download it from the old sharesite.

Just grabbing it and archiving it just in case.

EDIT: This goes the same for...
-The RC-1 release that came out on March 13th, 2011. The file name should be FoE2011-03-12.smc.
-A plethora of releases that was before they switched to the RC numbering system. File names should be FoE2011-02-12.smc, FoE2011-01-22.smc, FoE2011-01-21.smc (this one is particular interesting to me, as it was a change of course and built off the newly leaked 98% complete build rather than the previous alpha leak -- and this was the first major overhaul moving beyond CE, which included the new techs, human Glenn, changes to Crono's personality, and removal of some romantic elements).
-Plus any previous other builds that now have completely dead links (the blog posts are dated 12.24.2010, 1.20.2011, etc)

[Pseudoarc]

A few ideas:
1.) New techs as originally intended.
2.) Triple techs for Magus!

I wrote a module for the CT randomizer (https://github.com/Anskiy/jetsoftime) which allows duplication of characters (i.e. Magus may become a copy of Marle with all her techs, etc).  So in a roundabout way I've given Magus triple techs and more generally mangled the tech data.  If needed, I would be happy to share what I know.  There were some ordeals involved that are best not repeated.

[Dynami]

I don't know if this was what you're looking for, but I have this Build that has the same Date described by you. Sorry if that wasn't what you wanted.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

I don't know if this was what you're looking for, but I have this Build that has the same Date described by you. Sorry if that wasn't what you wanted.

That's perfect! That's definitely one of the ones I'm missing. Thanks, Dynami!

Sooner or later I am going to formally archive these. I feel like this is a part of internet history that needs to be maintained and kept. Plus, previous versions will help in any future CE development efforts.

[justin3009]

I wouldn't mind helping in some small way on this project but I'm not sure what I could do to help at this point. Seems like every base is covered. Either way, I'll cheer this on. The project definitely deserves and for sure needs a revamp on difficulty and such.

[Boo the Gentleman Caller]

I wouldn't mind helping in some small way on this project but I'm not sure what I could do to help at this point. Seems like every base is covered.

Just keep checking in, justin3009. Right now nothing has formally kicked off and no bases are covered -- this is still in the very early conversations phase. I think, at the end of the day, we'll need all hands we can get. Talk is cheap, actually doing the work is another thing. And actionable people are a dime a dozen in the ROM hacking community!

For example, I can create sprites, but I'm not great at sprite insertion. I also know very little about Temporal Flux, and will try to help there some, but as of right now, I won't be very useful on that front.

I am waiting on Zeality, chrono99, and agent12 to give permission before I fully pull the trigger. I also haven't even started a new playthrough of CE or FoE to actually figure out what we want to change in the long run, so there's a lot to do.

Either way, I'll cheer this on. The project definitely deserves and for sure needs a revamp on difficulty and such.

Absolutely deserves better. Moral support and people wanting to work on this will be huge.