Author Topic: How Chrono Break Could've Been Made 20 Years Ago-And SE A Better Company Now  (Read 294 times)

Toxic34

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Regardless of your personal feelings of CC and what was done, I'm sure all of you will agree that the idea of Chrono Break, whatever it would've been, was tantalizing and something that should've happened 20 years ago, especially to bridge the gap between CC and CT and get something could've closed the book better, given fans somethingthat "felt better," pleased all segments of the fanbase, and also affected Square Enix for the better.

First off, what kind of plot would work best for CB? My particular idea is this: the titular "break" would refer to a rift in the spacetime continuum, between events of a "good timeline" and a "bad timeline." CC is found to have taken place in the "bad timeline." The rift, naturally, has to do with Lavos still being a threat, and to save all of existence, the rift has to be healed and Lavos erased completely from existence. This is where our heroes come in. The original CT 6 (from the "good timeline") and core members of the Radical Dreamers (namely Serge, Kid, Pierre, Harle, Riddel, Mel and Leena in particular), as well as one or two brand new characters, have to come together to deal with this threat. Serge is brought back and gets his memories of CC back as well, since he's important. And this entire game is thus to resolve all the dangling plot threads that were left open or "not explained coherently in CC." In the end, Lavos is defeated, the rift is healed, and the bad timeline becomes absorbed into the good one, with the lives of the Radical Dreamers greatly improved, history of both timelines changed for the better.

The approach would be to naturally find the great middle ground between CT and CC. Have a more stripped-down approach to gameplay and combat in some areas, including the gameplay world and design, more like the original, but compensate with the story being a bit more intense and complex. Have a foot in the original but also a foot in evolving with the times. There never was going to be a way to perfectly recreate CT, because the settings which it was made can never come back. Also, CB would be made and released in the post-9/11 era, a period of shattered innocence and dealing with greater geopolitical uncertainty. The original tone can never be fully resurrected, but a way to close the book, transition, with "We've all had to grow up in ways we didn't expect", can be extremely powerful.

Of course, for the game to be made, the situation inside Square Enix would have to be very different from 1999 onward, especially in order to "keep the team together." First off, Monolith Soft would not have to be formed and the Xeno games would have to stay put at Square/Square Enix, because this is where most former employees ended up going to. Arguably, with the Xenosaga and Xenoblade games being here, it would've really added luster to Square Enix, given them more firepower in their arsenal, especially in striking the right note tonally and between simplicity and complexity.

Then, Hironobu Sakaguchi would also have to not leave. He'd still resign his administrative duties after Spirits Within, but remain involved creatively, especially to share duties alongside Tetsuya Nomura. After all, Nomura having no one to delegate to and his possessive desire for perfection has hurt the company a bit. He bears so much responsibility on his shoulders and can't really juggle multiple balls at the same time. That would help ensure that Masato Kato wouldn't leave the company, either, and he could stay involved in this.

Getting rid of "2 years to a game" was good, but they've clearly overcorrected. Having no time limit means things have gone quite astray, much like the development of Duke Nukem Forever, and only further enabled Nomura's perfectionism. Good or even great as the games that suffered delays are, there's still no getting around the fact they feel overcooked. A guardrail of 3-5 years per game would definitely keep things in place, especially to enable better results for the Final Fantasy 13 series, FF15, Kingdom Hearts III and all future KH games, and so on.

And not slashing the R&D budget for too long. I understand that Yoichi Wada had to do it in 2001 to keep Square alive until the merger, but FF10, FF11, KH1 and FF10-2 brought the company restored profitability, as did the consummation of the merger. Wada didn't need to keep the cuts anymore, and could've poured more money in. But it affected things down the line in ways no one could expect. And of course, having to do it again after the Wada regime ended. You can't always get "more for less."

This last part is more an "advisable" and a preference of mine. But I think that if Disney had been a full partner on KH rather than a licenser, and collaborated creatively on shaping the story while letting Square Enix do the hard work of making the game, the series could've been even better than we've got. More Disney assets, more Square Enix IPs crossing over (imagine Chrono in the KH world!), more worlds. If anything, maximalism would work for that series, including the point of doing 2 DVD-ROMs for the games in the PS2 era. It could've turbocharged both Square Enix and Disney considerably.

And then, at this point in history, 20 years after the trilogy, there would be a soft reboot of sorts, a new story, new setting and new characters under the Chrono name.

Get these ducks in a row, I see not only CB becoming a reality, but other fallow IPs (The Last Remnant, Vagrant Story, Parasite Eve, Threads of Fate) still being considered viable today and Square Enix having a much brighter future where much of its luster is still present, where it doesn't reach the point of being considered an aging also-ran in the RPG world, but still one of the big boys in the club.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Well, we know the Chrono Break storyline elements were ultimately reused for both Final Fantasy Dimensions II and Another Eden: Cat Beyond Time and Space. Both involved space-time becoming unstable and "breaking" -- so I wonder if Chrono Break were to ever come to light in any real way, they wouldn't pivot and do something different. Chrono Cross left tantalizing breadcrumbs with the multiverse possibilities, and even leaned into this with the Chrono Cross collaboration with Another Eden a few years back. Who knows...?

I do see SquareEnix focusing on these AA-type games more and more. They're slowly getting out of the mobile/gacha games, having recently killed FFBE, FFBE:WoTV, FFRK, and just about all others. I do believe the only remaining mobile game that is supported is Final Fantasy 7: Ever Crisis (and I do think the quality there is pretty solid, especially with the new storylines with young Sephiroth).

I really hope with Square Enix investing in their AAA-titles like Final Fantasy XVI and Final Fantasy VII remake trilogy, that they're going to continue their AA-title investments. Games like Visions of Mana (which was excellent), Fantasian Neo Dimension, and Octopath Traveler, not to mention their golden-era HD remasters/remakes: Dragon Quest 1-3, all the Saga HD remakes, Live-a-Live, Super Mario RPG, etc... I dunno, I think it's a matter of time before we see Chrono Trigger reappear in some fashion. A new game would be great, but I do think with current trends, an HD remaster of some kind is coming.

Toxic34

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I would certainly like to expect that the 30th anniversary is a sign that something will be done, like an HD remaster and/or remakes of CT and CC. But I guess we'll see. That said, I'm sure we'd all wish that CB as a game had been made and released 20 years prior, like I suggested above, and how it would've affected SE as a whole. And that these potential plot ideas for CB, which got reused for other games, would've been better suited here, as well as to bridge the dueling fandom with regards to CC. The resolution I put here would make people enjoy CC more.

In case you're wondering why I put all this up in the first place, it's because it's part of an alternate history timeline project on AlternateHistory.com, entitled "Cobain Continues Redux," that shows the implications of a world where Kurt Cobain didn't commit suicide (doesn't even try heroin at all), and the ripple effects on music, movies, TV, technology, literature, Broadway, animation, anime/manga, video games, economics, geopolitics and society as a whole.

A brighter future for Square Enix, one that involves Chrono Break getting made and all the other things I mentioned, is part of that. It also goes hand in hand with changes at Disney, where Michael Eisner names Bob Iger his number two instead of Michael Ovitz in 1995 when getting the ABC purchase together, and he and Iger have a relationship like he'd had with Frank Wells. This includes buying Pixar and Lucasfilm much earlier, in 1996 (so the Star Wars Original Trilogy Special Editions and prequels are part of the Disney era and John Lasseter becomes WDAS head earlier), managing ABC better, expanding the park footprint worldwide, swinging for the fences more with the movies, earlier exposure of Harvey Weinstein in 1998, a different regional strategy than Club Disney, improved numbers for Hollywood Records, better TV management in general, and having Disney Interactive do better. Thus Kingdom Hearts is a true collaboration between Square Enix and Disney, and that series has ever more firepower attached to it, including featuring more Disney assets and more SE IPs, including seeing Chrono characters in the KH games.

Toxic34

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I made this post not just to share the idea with you, but I wanted to spark discussion. Hear your thoughts, anything you had to add to it. I really want to hear what you all have to say about the basic idea, about how to craft a great narrative for CB that would resolve the problems some had with CC and end the franchise on a better note, as well as the entire alternate history timeline project that it's part of.

So come on. Give me your thoughts. Add to it. Really engage with me.

Boo the Gentleman Caller

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Sorry mate. Unfortunately, we don't have that many active users in these parts, anymore. :D

I'll tell you what I'd want, though, since I didn't really do that in my last post...

I would want a return to form to Trigger. Give me something nostalgic, but not too progressive or experimental with jRPG mechanics. Something like Bravely Default comes to mind - striking visuals, an engaging plot (mileage may vary with the multiverse angle in the last half of the game).

BATTLE MECHANICS:

The battle combat was solid, too; it took the normal turn-based jRPG battle mechanics and added the ability to stack turns. Other than that, it wasn't too crazy. I don't want it to be an action-RPG like we're seeing a lot these days. Just maybe just take CT mechanics and add in the ability to do multiple attacks per turn with varying strength, and then really build on the double and triple techs element.

In fact, custom spell building could be a really cool mechanic that SE hasn't explored much, which would allow the player to build their own custom double and triple techs. Each character would have something they'd contribute to the spell, such as physical or magic attack damage, an enemy debuff, a team buff, healing, or stealing - and also pick elemental damage. You could combine these in any fashion to make dozens or hundreds of unique combinations. You could also allow the player to choose custom spell animations to add even more variety.

For example, a custom triple tech of Crono, Lucca, and Marle could look something like...

-Crono does elemental lightning damage at the same time as Lucca casts Protect on the party, and Marle heals, all with a custom spell animation = Lightning Pulse

or

-Crono casts an area of attack cycle spell, Lucca augments with it fire for extra damage, and Marle casts Provoke so the attack has a chance of causing confusion to each enemy, all with a custom spell animation = Flare Vortex

or

-Crono, Lucca, and Marle combine their magic and each chooses a select all elemental magic attack for maximum Shadow magic damage = Delta Force

STORY

On one hand, I'd love a simpler time travelin' romp similar to Trigger. Give me that nostalgia, let me revisit some eras, and then add in some new eras, too. Mix the old and the new. I think the story can be a bit more nuanced and mature to reflect the changing of jRPG storytelling, but I also don't want it to be a convoluted mess like Cross.

On the other hand, I like the idea of a multiverse angle. We saw time travel in Trigger, alternate timelines in Cross, so I feel like multiverse is the next evolution of this idea. Infinite worlds, so to speak. I dunno, I think I prefer option A, though.

Regardless, while I think it would be best to have a new (or mostly new) cast, I'd like some cameos. Maybe even one or two party members could be a return from Trigger or Cross (Magus, Kid, or Glenn from Cross come to mind as quality options), with some additional non-player character playing a role in the story (more than a cameo). ... Just don't do what Cross did and play with our heartstrings in an uncool way.

GRAPHICS

I honestly would love a really good pixel game similar to what we've been getting recently: Sea of Stars, Seeds of Nostalgia, Chained Echoes. The fake Chrono Break trailer from Im5on back in 2018 would be a great example of pixel graphics brought into the modern era.

Personally, I prefer this over any 2D/3D hybrid (a la Octopath Traveler) or a full 3D world (a la Visions of Mana).
« Last Edit: April 18, 2025, 03:31:38 pm by Boo the Gentleman Caller »

Toxic34

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Sorry mate. Unfortunately, we don't have that many active users in these parts, anymore. :D

I'll tell you what I'd want, though, since I didn't really do that in my last post...

I would want a return to form to Trigger. Give me something nostalgic, but not too progressive or experimental with jRPG mechanics. Something like Bravely Default comes to mind - striking visuals, an engaging plot (mileage may vary with the multiverse angle in the last half of the game).

BATTLE MECHANICS:

The battle combat was solid, too; it took the normal turn-based jRPG battle mechanics and added the ability to stack turns. Other than that, it wasn't too crazy. I don't want it to be an action-RPG like we're seeing a lot these days. Just maybe just take CT mechanics and add in the ability to do multiple attacks per turn with varying strength, and then really build on the double and triple techs element.

In fact, custom spell building could be a really cool mechanic that SE hasn't explored much, which would allow the player to build their own custom double and triple techs. Each character would have something they'd contribute to the spell, such as physical or magic attack damage, an enemy debuff, a team buff, healing, or stealing - and also pick elemental damage. You could combine these in any fashion to make dozens or hundreds of unique combinations. You could also allow the player to choose custom spell animations to add even more variety.

For example, a custom triple tech of Crono, Lucca, and Marle could look something like...

-Crono does elemental lightning damage at the same time as Lucca casts Protect on the party, and Marle heals, all with a custom spell animation = Lightning Pulse

or

-Crono casts an area of attack cycle spell, Lucca augments with it fire for extra damage, and Marle casts Provoke so the attack has a chance of causing confusion to each enemy, all with a custom spell animation = Flare Vortex

or

-Crono, Lucca, and Marle combine their magic and each chooses a select all elemental magic attack for maximum Shadow magic damage = Delta Force

STORY

On one hand, I'd love a simpler time travelin' romp similar to Trigger. Give me that nostalgia, let me revisit some eras, and then add in some new eras, too. Mix the old and the new. I think the story can be a bit more nuanced and mature to reflect the changing of jRPG storytelling, but I also don't want it to be a convoluted mess like Cross.

On the other hand, I like the idea of a multiverse angle. We saw time travel in Trigger, alternate timelines in Cross, so I feel like multiverse is the next evolution of this idea. Infinite worlds, so to speak. I dunno, I think I prefer option A, though.

Regardless, while I think it would be best to have a new (or mostly new) cast, I'd like some cameos. Maybe even one or two party members could be a return from Trigger or Cross (Magus, Kid, or Glenn from Cross come to mind as quality options), with some additional non-player character playing a role in the story (more than a cameo). ... Just don't do what Cross did and play with our heartstrings in an uncool way.

GRAPHICS

I honestly would love a really good pixel game similar to what we've been getting recently: Sea of Stars, Seeds of Nostalgia, Chained Echoes. The fake Chrono Break trailer from Im5on back in 2018 would be a great example of pixel graphics brought into the modern era.

Personally, I prefer this over any 2D/3D hybrid (a la Octopath Traveler) or a full 3D world (a la Visions of Mana).

I was certainly thinking the idea that the combat system would be more like CT, and definitely be more reflective of it. With only 12 characters, that part fits the "perfect medium" between CT and CC. Overall it'll look and feel more like CT in how the battles are formed, and your idea of spell building has some real merit. It would also be a nice way to really give a hint towards "progressing with the times," but not go overboard.

To build up the 12 characters, it's the full CT crew, along with Serge, Kid, Harle, Riddel, Mel and Pierre, all of whom are playable characters. The plot revolves around these two groups working together, though they encounter a lot of new figures that aid and guide them (but aren't playable, but don't just appear in one scene and disappear). It's about these two sides, these two timelines, working together to repair the damage that is threatening to destroy time itself, after all, and we learn that CC and all of its "Say what?!" moments are actually an anomaly in the fabric of spacetime, an aberration that was not meant to happen, but the destructive time loop created this "bad timeline" where all these events took place.

In terms of the atmosphere and idea, the intention is to meet the middle, to be more nuanced than CT, but not as complex as CC. Now, the thing with the "bad timeline equaling CC" could be construed as "Ah, we're just writing it this way because we knew we didn't have it make sense so we're going out of our way to find a way to junk it." Well, it's not that simple. There has to be something done to reconcile these disparate elements. Now, granted, how much can you actually explain and make it fit? I don't know. But I imagine a lot. And that when the battle is won, time is healed and the bad timeline fades from existence (making the Radical Dreamers have different lives as a result), those elements that leave a bad taste in your mouth with regards to CC will just simply cease to exist, and everything is more or less 'in line" with CT.

But even CT is not quite unscathed. Even though finding a way to get rid of predestination and all of that, with a return to the Terminator-esque "No fate but what we make ourselves" theme that CT embodies, you still have to show that Crono and the others aren't completely the same as before. Since this hypothetical game, coming out in either 2003 or 2004, would be made in a post-9/11 world, it would have to, in some sense, deal with the loss of innocence and the hard transition into experience. I'm not talking about radically altering their personalities, they're recognizable as the same characters with the same goals and ideals, it's just that they're older and have wised up, and thus not as childish as before. Time ages us all in ways we didn't expect, and we see things that shape us, moments that alter the world forever.

As per "time travel" vs "multiverse," it's basically splitting the difference. It's a little of both. And in terms of multiverse, it's only really focusing on two different timelines, the "good one" that reflects CT, and the "bad one" that reflects CC. Nothing more than that, but it also involves traveling back in time. Especially in order to repair the damage and defeat the time loop that is wrecking everything.

Visually, I get your point about wanting a return to pixelated styles, though I'm not sure if that would be considered "the right move strategically" at that point. I'm not saying make it look like FF10/10-2 or KH1, but it would be jarring to see the graphical update for CC, and then a step backwards. Also, I personally like the HD2D look of Octopath Traveler, and how Mana evolved to go full 3D. In this hypothetical future, there would eventually be full 3D remakes of the trilogy, with voice acting and cutscenes, to lay the ground before there's a new Crono game in the present, a reboot with a different setting and cast but the same themes.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2025, 07:49:08 pm by Toxic34 »

Toxic34

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Also for you, Boo the Gentleman Caller, having you is better than no one. So if you're the only user willing to really engage with this thread, give it the time of day, and be available to brainstorm something purely hypothetical, then I'll take it.

Because I'd really like some help further refining this thing, and getting it to where we can imagine the finished product.