Author Topic: Should I play FF7?  (Read 23937 times)

Kazuki

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #210 on: October 26, 2005, 06:01:07 pm »
Sentenal, I still see no reason WHY FF8 is so bad...unless somebody posted in the previous page and I missed it...Zeality made an interesting point, but he hasn't played it yet, and I'm assuming you've made a full playthrough of the game, if you're making such claims...

Sentenal

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #211 on: October 26, 2005, 06:41:01 pm »
Did you not read my entire take on FF8?  Gameplay is inferior, storyline goes into the crapper.  I really don't want to give a full critique of it, because people here havn't played it.

But let me say this; I'm an RPG fan.  Its my favorite Genre.  When I get my hands on a new RPG, if its worth finishing, I finish it.  Well, at least since I got to middle school and after (because in my elementary school days, I got to the end of FF6, and stopped! I've beaten it since, however).  My first play through of FF8 I stopped halfway, not having any desire to play it.  I eventually decided to give it the benifit of the doubt, and try it out agian (I even bought the PSX disk for it this time), and got to the point of no return in the game, and didn't have any desire to finish it.  That is bad for a RPG.

Mystik3eb

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #212 on: October 26, 2005, 06:58:33 pm »
Did you take advantage of the Junction system? Cuz that was probably one of the most brilliant systems ever. Being able to junction status and elemental effects to your attack and defense was so awesome. Ever tried junctioning 100 Deaths to your attack? Instant kill to most enemies? Yeah.

Also I tend to find out more and more of the world each time I play, there are plenty of little secrets here and there. Like the Old Fisherman when you first crash in FH. Do the right things and you'll suddenly learn a whole history about FH, and it's rather interesting.

I dunno, it's not the greatest, but it really is quality. I guess you just don't appreciate it.

Sentenal

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #213 on: October 26, 2005, 07:18:38 pm »
.. Yeah, I see its blantantly obvious that no one read my take on FF8.

Mystik3eb

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #214 on: October 26, 2005, 10:26:29 pm »
Quote from: Sentenal
.. Yeah, I see its blantantly obvious that no one read my take on FF8.


We did, and find it to only be an opinion. There's a difference between opinion and fact.

Sentenal

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #215 on: October 26, 2005, 10:55:26 pm »
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Did you take advantage of the Junction system?


You asked that.  I directly addressed my take on Junctioning in my critque, and yet you asked me if I took advantage of it.  Yes, I did, made the game way too easy.  Read my critque.

Mystik3eb

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #216 on: October 26, 2005, 11:18:03 pm »
I'm sorry, you're right. Here, I'll take your review and look at it up close.

Quote from: Sentenal
I think I've given my critque of FF8 before, but if not, I'll give it agian.

I'll start by saying that I really enjoyed the first part of the game.

Now, we move on to why I don't like it.  Lets start with characters.  It seems like every character in the game was given some social disorder.  Squall is an anti-social despression, Rinoa is an over-hyper monster, Selphie is too cheerful, Zell is a wuss.  Irivine is a "cowboy".  The only character that doesn't really have a social disorder is Quistis.  Laguna is alight though, I guess.  Meh, to awkward with him some times though, and his group seemed to be bumbling idiots.


Actually, Quistis' problem was that she was unfit to be a teacher, and Laguna was definetely not suave or good with words or great with people. It's not a "social disorder" or whatever, it's a character trait, a realistic chracter trait that defines their weakness, makes them human. And with each weakness they have, they have something else about them that equals the balance. It's quite well done, actually.

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Next is story, don't read if you don't want spoilers.

Story was good at the start.  A mercenary group, fighting in battles.  Then we move past that.  Story is decent most of the game.  Its the story between characters that sucks.  There is the super awkward Squall-Rinoa thing going on.  Half way through the game, guess what!  You find out that every one of your characters grew up together, and didn't even remmber each other, and all winded back up together!  What a coincidence!  Lame.  The whole time compression thing at the end was confusing too.  But overall, the story is passible.

End spoilers, for now.


Have you ever been in a situation like Squall and Rinoa? If you had, you'd understand that it is awkward. I rather appreciated it because it's very accurately protrayed.

And man, I thought the growing up together thing was awesome. You thought it was lame. Well, that's opinion.

Also if you play it more than once, the Time Compression thing makes more sense. I was confused my first time through, too.

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We move on to gameplay.  The draw and junctioning system.  This effectively punishing you for using magic, and at the same time makes the game super easy.  The draw system makes magic into items.  You have limited amounts of them.  The junctioning system punishes you for using them.  You see, the game encourages you to add the magic to your stats, thereby giving them stat boosts.  A good thing, right?  No.  Firstly, it lets you beef up your characters way past where they are supposed to be.  Makes it too easy.  Secondly if you actually do you your magic, it takes away the stats you built up.


Uhm...I don't see it as any more beefing than the materia usage in FF7, and it's actually easier to beef this up than 8, where you have to make the effort to find and draw magic. Plus if you don't junction at all, you're characters are rather weak, so it's almost necessary to do some amount of junctioning. The balance makes perfect sense to me, it doesn't make your characters all that ultra-powerful. That comes with leveling up enough, like any good RPG.

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Now, even with the beefed up stats, we have another toy.  GFs.  They are nessisary.  Basically, later in the game, you become dependant on these.  Summoning and summoning.  And it takes forever for their animation to get done.  Dependancy on GFs is a bad thing for gameplay.


The length is obnoxious, yes, unless you're good at boosting, which is rather handy if you ARE good at it and don't get uber tired doing it all the time. But no, you don't become totally dependent on them, especially if you level up enough. I never have, at least. Except for Omega Weapon and Krysta in Ultimecia's Castle. And a few other boss battles earlier in the game. I really can't agree with this statement.

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Zeality, let me assure you the debate on FF8's quality, and the debate on Chrono Cross's quality are much different.  People who don't like CC don't like it because its not CT2.  While it may be somewhat similar in the FF8 case, FF8 is a love it or hate it game.  Its not because people want it to be FF7-2.  Its because, well, what I said above.


You are right about the love it-hate it thing, absolutely. But the reasoning behind whether you love it or hate it DOES have ALOT to do with people having played FF7 before it (AND FF7 was their first RPG, in most cases) and judging it accordingly.

As I said, it's all opinion.

Sentenal

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #217 on: October 26, 2005, 11:45:16 pm »
Firstly, no, the characters replaced traits with social disorders, story felt half-assed.  Now, on to gamplay agian.

In FF7, Materia was primarily used a magic, then stats.  In this Magic is now used nearly exclusivly for stats.  You would be crazy to go around casting magic, unless you really, really need to.  And being able to go fight a single group of enemies, sit there and draw for an hour, then find another one and repeat, till you get max of each spell to junction to overpower your characters, yes, it does make it too easy.

And guess which game I played first: Final Fantasy 7 or Final Fantasy 8.

Mystik3eb

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #218 on: October 27, 2005, 12:10:06 am »
Quote from: Sentenal
Firstly, no, the characters replaced traits with social disorders, story felt half-assed.


Bah, I think you're the kinda gamer who'd rather play a game where the characters are all-around perfect, except for one or two major qualities that are obviously bad and need improvement, instead of people with realistic character traits. Seriously, everyone knows people like the characters in FF8 in real life.

And the story didn't feel half-assed to me.

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In FF7, Materia was primarily used a magic, then stats.  In this Magic is now used nearly exclusivly for stats.  You would be crazy to go around casting magic, unless you really, really need to.  And being able to go fight a single group of enemies, sit there and draw for an hour, then find another one and repeat, till you get max of each spell to junction to overpower your characters, yes, it does make it too easy.


I was talking about the HP/MP/Luck Plus materia. Makes a big difference in the game without leveling up. Besides, for me I never cast magic in either game when I've leveled up to the point where all I ever need is to simply hold the confirm button and attack, except for some boss fights where the most I use magic wise is Revive or Cure or maybe Barrier/Wall.

And it takes a long-ass time to stock magic, especially good magic, unless you have a high Magic stat, which most characters can't attain until you A) have enough GFs to actually junction to the Magic stat and B) have good enough magic to stock well. I spend about as much time stocking magic in FF8 as I do getting all the characters Limit Breaks in FF7 and getting their ultimate limits/weapons.

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And guess which game I played first: Final Fantasy 7 or Final Fantasy 8.


Why is that important? I didn't say it was always the case, just quite often the case. I know there are exceptions.

Really, I think opinions of games depend on playing style. I would say your playing style doesn't fit with FF8.

Sentenal

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #219 on: October 27, 2005, 12:18:35 am »
No, I wouldn't want to play a game where the characters are all around perfect.  But giving them lame social disorders just to make them obnoxious is not a good way to make a character.

Its easy to stock up on magic!  You get into a battle, and you sit there, drawing, till you can draw no more.  Repeat with other enemies for other spells.

And even with the HP/MP materia in FF7, the game never was too easy.  Doing what I described above lets you tank all your characters to breeze through all normal enemies, and then if you get to a harder boss, GF GF GF.

Mystik3eb

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #220 on: October 27, 2005, 12:56:34 am »
As I said, we must have different play styles. FF7 is ridiculously easy for me and takes far less time than FF8 does, and I do about the same stuff to level up and always do all the side quests and fight all the 'ultimate/impossible' bosses.

Burning Zeppelin

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« Reply #221 on: October 27, 2005, 05:06:55 am »
Atlus is gold. I havent played any of their games...but Shin Megami Tensei and Persona look awesome, and the cover with the woman in it for Pro Fishing Challenge made it awesome too  :P

V_Translanka

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #222 on: October 27, 2005, 05:47:10 am »
Quote from: Sentenal
Half way through the game, guess what! You find out that every one of your characters grew up together, and didn't even remmber each other, and all winded back up together! What a coincidence! Lame.


I agree that it was pretty lame, but I think the explaination, the use of the GFs for their memory loss was pretty neat and almost made up for said lameness...almost...>_>

Quote from: Anyone In The Entire World Who Ever Says This
Well, that's opinion.


This is byfar one of the stupidest and most redundant things a person can say, with the slight exception of someone pointing out that it's stupid and redundant. Pet peeve. :wink:

Quote from: Myxtik3eb
Seriously, everyone knows people like the characters in FF8 in real life.


I don't know anyone as annoying as Selphie or Zell nor do I know anyone as hollow as Irvine (much less most of the cast itself)...Different circles I guess?

The Junction System is near outlandishly easy. It requires minimal thought to become godlike in power. Personally, I don't see this as a bad thing, but I can obviously see how people could. I mean, Drawing becomes boring, but it's no different than the leveling up in other RPGs. Not every godly Materia combination in FFVII was obvious, much less as easy to get as Drawing Magic in VIII...But I always saw the Materia system as an obsolete, inpersonal, Esper system myself...

Burning Zeppelin

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #223 on: October 27, 2005, 06:46:33 am »
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Anyone In The Entire World Who Ever Says This wrote:
Well, that's opinion.

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http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=boiling_blood

I hated the GF explanation, it reminded me of when Dumbledore told Harry that he got his powers from when Voldemort shot him. Wouldnt it be cooler if Harry was to be evil like Voldemort, but when Voldemort sensed that Harry was becoming good he decided to kill him. Instead, the story was, you were normal, and then Voldemort accidentally gave powers to you, and now you can speak to snakes.

V_Translanka

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Should I play FF7?
« Reply #224 on: October 27, 2005, 06:55:09 am »
Quote


This one pisses me off just thinking about it. If you slit my throat right now you'd get shot in the eye with boiling blood. Any time you say something sucks around someone who disagrees, they try to validate their taste in shitty music/movies/clothing by reminding you that you still only speak for yourself, as if their opinions are in jeopardy of being monopolized by your own. Everyone already knows it's my opinion by virtue of the fact that I said it, no need to restate the obvious you dopey twat.


Thank you Burning Zeppelin, I've been looking (ok, i admit, i'm lazy and didn't look at all...>_>) for that article for ages!

Quote from: Burning Zeppelin
I hated the GF explanation, it reminded me of when Dumbledore told Harry that he got his powers from when Voldemort shot him. Wouldnt it be cooler if Harry was to be evil like Voldemort, but when Voldemort sensed that Harry was becoming good he decided to kill him. Instead, the story was, you were normal, and then Voldemort accidentally gave powers to you, and now you can speak to snakes.


Wow, that was so much HP nerdism that I don't know what to do...I need to get to a library and try the books, I guess...