More Cross ruminations

[Kazuki]

I see your point, and thinking about it I agree. Another example in 'Trigger where the mood isn't broken by battle music is during Magus's castle, which held a very mystical and evil aura that thankfully wasn't interrupted nonsensically.

Chrono Cross's lack of more than one boss theme also disappointed me. While there are (wisely placed) different themes for some of the major bosses (FATE, Lunar Dragon are examples.), most of the other bosses had the same music, which in my opinion deteriorated some of the moods (I always thought that there should be a Lynx theme that played when you fought him - kind of like the Magus theme.) The part had the most successful timing of music with a boss battle was when you fought Miguel and the sad theme played through with no interruptions, created in my mind one of the most emotional and successfully constructed battles in the game.

By the way, what the heck was with Dario? They played the Boss theme until the loading screen for the battle starts, which it then switches to the sad theme. In my mind, it seemed like it was a little late switching tracks >_>.

[nightmare975]

And half the time, it just plays the normal battle music during boss fights!

[Kazuki]

And half the time, it just plays the normal battle music during boss fights!

This generally only happens when they're "lame" bosses or semi-bosses (Do you really think Solt and Peppor deserve the REAL boss theme?)

[nightmare975]

(Do you really think Solt and Peppor deserve the REAL boss theme?)

Actually, the do have they're own music.

[Kazuki]

Not since I remember...when you fight them with Karsh, the normal battle music plays, right? It also does I believe in Fossil Valley.

[Tai001]

So you know, the Karsh battle had the Boss Music instead of the Normal Battle music. In fact, it was the first Boss fight that the Boss music played in. (The Mama Dragon was too easy for the real Boss Music I guess)

[Kazuki]

Eh, whatever. THE POINT IS...

[Muffins]

Though it's possibly because I've been immersed on my first playthrough of Chrono Cross, and I haven't played Chrono Trigger, I may actually be finding myself enjoying Chrono Cross more than 'Trigger.

If so, than I must be in the extreme minority, and I think I would be eaten alive at GameFaqs...

Played CC long before I played CT as well. I have always held CC above CT.

[ZeaLitY]

Note to self: Use material here for Cross feature

[Avin]

I'm a big fan of Chrono Trigger who was overall disappointed by ChronoCross, but not because I thought CC was a bad game. I agree with most of the balanced criticisms offered in this thread about the too many shallow characters, condensed plot-on-a-beach, etc., (I actually enjoyed the battle system in CC actually though) but I think my primary disappointment lies in something that has not been stated here: the mood of the entire game as a whole.

Chrono Trigger was lighthearted, not too serious, but at the same time very moving and deep. If I had to compare it to anything, I think the best thing I can think of is the Chronicles of Narnia, in which there is explanations given for the mechanics of what's going on (in the real world and Narnia) but it's not scientific, not systematic, and it's left to the reader or player to accept to suspend their disbelief and partake in the fantasy or not. If you do, you are given an amazing journey with rich themes and an epic sweep of a story. Chrono Cross ruined that feel to me; it tried too hard to appeal to a more "hard sci-fi" sort of atmosphere of a more rigorously defined plot with nuances fleshed out with fake physics and all. Add to that the seriousness of the majority of the characters and the philosophical discourses despite the fact that I really did not care about them. Take for instance, the female friend of Serge near the beginning of the game - I forgot her name because it's been a few years now - she REALLY got on my nerves! CT's characters I felt were much more fun and whimsical. I didn't think that the plot was too hard to understand on my first playthrough actually - I just read over the Condensed Plot article on this site and remembered it all quite easily, and recalled the fact that I had gotten it as I played it, but the fact that so many people need to have it detailed for them and the fact that people need to speculate on the various details so much is a major detractor to me. With the introduction of CC's plot, it ceases to be a magical story of legend and instead becomes like some sci-fi series. That may be fine if that's the sort of thing you like; the only reason I care is because it's a Chrono game, and I was hoping for the same style of story, even though I was fine with changing the hero and cast of characters, fine with the battle system, fine with most of the changes that other CT fans often gripe at. I like innovation and for the innovation that was done with CC, I am glad - but even innovation aside, it still feels like a different game because of the style I'm talking about.

[Lena Andreia]

 I agree completely with Avin, and thus I will try not to write a novel. I played Cross, expecting to get the same sort of feeling I got from Trigger (which I played waaaaay back when it first came out in '95). Trigger felt like a windswept adventure to me--I was always wondering where that next Gate would send me. I was excited when Marl was first pulled in at the Fair and I got to follow. I was sad when I saw what would become of their world--I was determined when the time finally came to storm the Ocean Palace to save Schala. On top of that, all of the characters brought something special to the plot, and spoke volumes about the world they came from. And you didn't need a million of them to be interesting.

 Cross's major flaw, as has been mentioned millions of times above, is the overabundance of PCs, and the lack of meaningful PCs. It's OK to have 100 playable characters as long as you at least have four or five that will drive the story strongly. And of the "main characters" of Cross, Kid is off your party for half the game, Harle is incredibly mysterious (though in my opinion, she was probably your most compelling PC), and Serge, of course, is the silent protaganist; though it would have done loads for Cross if Square had sort of dropped that tradition, as at least you would have had his insight on the world, and what was happening to him.

 Also, I played Cross almost DIRECTLY after Xenogears, and I believe someone else mentioned that here--the battle system was a bit too similar for my tastes. XD And somehow, it was far more fun in Xenogears... And of course, Elements were a lot like Materia, so it didn't really matter WHAT your innate was, as you could give everyone anything. Sure, customization is good, but then when you have the weak bodied healer characters, what point is there to use them?

 But Cross had its good points. Though I hated El Nido as a whole (mostly because it barred me from leaving to Zenan, which is what I wanted to do the entire game), there were parts of it I liked. Water Dragon Island, that forest that you go to on your way to Viper Manor, the entire Dead Sea sequence (I shed a tear when they did the Nadia bell thing, and I realized what had happened in Guardia)... But there were also a bunch that were sort of "meh". And replacing vast time periods with 3 or 4 screen long islands just wasn't cool. Granted, I liked the dimension thing at first, but it sort of lost its coolness once I realized that was all there was. o__O

 OK, well, that's it.

 My theory is that like with the Final Fantasy arguments (VII versus VIII in particular), it seems that people prefer whichever game they played first. For a Cross gamer, Trigger will not have the same sort of dramatic feel to it, as it was more of a lighthearted adventure. For a Trigger gamer, Cross lost that whimsical feel.

 That's it. XD Loved the soundtrack, tho.

[ClayAKAMe]

Yell at me later but Chrono Cross SUCKED all around and that's my onion.... Stickin with it. Don't ask questions just accept it and go on with your lives!

[SilentMartyr]

I remember vividly my first time with Cross. I had been here for a good period of time so I knew some of the plot from analysis but not everything. I was very worried about playing it, because of the fact that most every Trigger fanatic disliked it or didn't find it on par to Trigger at all. I didn't want to play it for that reason, I really didn't wanna be another Cross hater. But I eventually caved and played it, and I'm glad I did. I agree with the basic faults pointed out; way too many PC's and a battle system that lacked substance (but to be fair Trigger's battle system was so simple and challengeless it's hard to blame Square for trying somthing completely different).

I defintely don't think it sucked at all though. The soundtrack is as beautiful as Triggers and the characters that are worth following really pulled me into the story. I think it's dumb to say that having Serge as a SP is a fault since it worked so well with Crono. It's just a staple of the series, something you have to live with. If you don't like it then play RPG's that don't have them. It's a tried and true formula that worked in countless classic RPG's so it's really pointless to complain about it. Sure the game has it's faults, but you can't expect lightning to strike twice. (punny) How many series have two games in it that are both nearly 100% flawless? Not to mention ones with stories that are as complex and detailed as the ones we cover so adamently.

Although I agree with the point that everyone is entitled to thier own opinion, I cant think you can consider yourself a true fan of the series if you are going to say that either game sucks. Obviously you can't pick both to be the better game, but you are insulting your favorite just as much by saying the other sucked. It's the same core group of people that made it, they knew what they were doing. Insulting thier ability to create such a magical and vibrant universe but loving a third of it is just plain ignorance.

[DarkEpoch7]

I posted this somewhere else, and will probably get flamed for it. Anyway,

The definite flaw of Chrono Criss is the abundance of playable characters who have little to no character development and contribute nothing unique to the story. This alone also caused the developers to take out Guile's backstory as Magus, effectively making a bastardized character with no history and leaving Magus's history as a big question mark. Other than the character problem, the only other non-opinionated, legitimate criticism is the cramming of a lot of plot into some speeches on Opassa Beach. The plot itself is godlike and totally consistent with itself as Trigger's; the only unsolvable enigma in the game is the Dead Sea, whose mechanics aren't exactly explained (though fans have tried and succeeded with clues). This does not constitute a plot hole, along with other unexplained occurrences, as Trigger fanboys so vocally point out. The hard definition of a plot hole is something that actively contradicts something else in a plot; simply because something is unexplained does not mean it contradicts anything. It is entirely logical that the Kingdom of Guardia could fall, and Crono and his crew are die, considering Masato Kato wrote it (saying Crono & Marle were involved in some kind of incident) and we have no evidence to the contrary. Just because it doesn't appeal to fans doesn't mean it is not canon.

The Chrono Cross hate in a large part is blown out of proportion by a few vocal critics who rant loudly. This may sound like a "Silent Majority" copout, but considering that Cross outsold its expectations in the United States and generated a sizable profit, it is not. Chrono Trigger fanboys wanted to play as Crono again, have the same old battle system, etc. while the Chrono Cross developers explicitly stated in interviews that they wanted to innovate and explore more aspects of the Chrono mythos. This meant a new battle system, a new overworld (though in actuality its just a few square miles in the ocean of the Chrono Trigger overworld), new locations and characters, and a new cast. This is why they said Chrono Cross is not a direct sequel to Trigger in terms of gaming. However, in plot, Cross directly ties up loose ends of Chrono Trigger, and exists solely becuase of the actions of Crono in the first game. Cross never contradicts anything stated in the first either, an amazing achievement for a game with such a labyrinthine plot. Altogether, Cross seems to be like a masterpiece work of art compared to Trigger's action adventure movie; the scenes are pastoral, the characters vivid, the music perfect (can't think of a better word for the soundtrack), and the plot deep and organic. Cross received rave reviews from professional game reviewers, even receiving one of four tens ever on Gamespot. However, the myth that it "sucks" is still perpetrated by Trigger fanboys who cannot distinguish their own dislikes and expectations from critical fact. Cross is one of the best expressions of art in video game form ever made, though on some fanboys, it was entirely wasted because of narrow-minded expectations.

Amen. While I like most here think Trigger was better, Cross(What I got to play of it) was one helluva good game. The reason I didn't get to finish it was because it would always freeze at a cutscene near the end, so I couldn't advacne any furthur( ).

[Daid]

I enjoyed Chrono Trigger and when I heard that there was a sequel I bought it.
I was suprised that it was quite different but I really enjoyed the game.
I like the story, the music and I like the different battle system.
The game did have it's flaws though but it doesn't concern me to much.

The thing with Chrono Cross was that it was the sequel to Chrono Trigger.
One of the best classic RPGs ever made. People had high expectations which lead to disapointment.

I also enjoyed the theme of the game because it was different from Chrono Trigger.
After finishing Trigger over and over again I wanted somthing different!